Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Duck Hunting for puddlers like Mallards, Sprig (Pintails), Black ducks, Widgeons, Woodducks, Teal, and other ducks.

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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Kasilofchrisn » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:42 am

Frank Lopez wrote:
Kasilofchrisn wrote:To be honest Frank I am not much of a turkey hunter.
Although I did shoot 3 wild turkeys last September with my trusty old Winchester 12 gauge and I killed 2 more this spring.


Interesting. I wasn't aware you had wild turkeys on the Kenai!

Frank

There you go assuming they were shot here in Alaska on the Kenai Peninsula.
But yes they were killed in Kasilof. They are called "Deleterious exotic wildlife".

del·e·te·ri·ous/ˌdeliˈti(ə)rēəs/Adjective: Causing harm or damage.
Synonyms: harmful - injurious - noisome - detrimental - prejudicial

Meaning some idiot released a non native species in our area. They are 100% legal game with no limits or closed seasons.
I would also add they are quite tasty.
This is the same reason I know an area that has Pheasants. We even had wild hogs at one point until the hogs owners finally got what was left of them back in his pens.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Kasilofchrisn » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:08 am

If you do some searching on this site you will find this discussion on here many times.
The point is this is a legal practice where the end result is the same either way a dead duck is a dead duck. Shot in the air or on the ground/water.
You can decide whether you do it or not or whether you will let others in your group to do it.
But as has already been said if I do it it will not in any way affect your hunt any more so than yours will affect mine.
Skybusting is another matter it's legal but it usually results in wounded game and that is definetly not ethical in anyones mind on either side of this debate.
I think I am done with this topic.
Here are a couple links to other threads on this if you really want to read more.

http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=188684&p=1653988&hilit=water+swatting#p1653988

http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70592&hilit=ground+swat

Have a safe and productive duck hunting season everyone.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby greenheadsmoker » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:01 am

Perchjerk wrote:What's even more Busch league is the fact that you give a sh$t so badly about what others are doing on the water within the law. My whole point was that I simply dont care if others do it because it does not affect me. Apparently you don't realize how childish you sound. One day you'll figure it out.

Whatever man keep slumming it shooting ducks on the water. I mean if you're a poor shot and that's the only way you can hit them then by all means.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby dakotashooter2 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:39 pm

"shooting ducks on the water"..."shooting fish in a barrel". Both basically mean the same thing.......
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby eastcoastsoxfan » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:05 pm

What if a Goose is 70 yards and you have full choke and some TSS and make a nice head shot, is it OK then?
"The old school hunters shoot what they shoot and kill as many as they always have, the newbies have their 3.5."
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:56 pm

eastcoastsoxfan wrote:What if a Goose is 70 yards and you have full choke and some TSS and make a nice head shot, is it OK then?


If YOU are capable of making the shot 7 out of 10 times, then yes, it's ok.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:59 pm

Kasilofchrisn wrote:
Frank Lopez wrote:
Kasilofchrisn wrote:To be honest Frank I am not much of a turkey hunter.
Although I did shoot 3 wild turkeys last September with my trusty old Winchester 12 gauge and I killed 2 more this spring.


Interesting. I wasn't aware you had wild turkeys on the Kenai!

Frank

There you go assuming they were shot here in Alaska on the Kenai Peninsula.
But yes they were killed in Kasilof. They are called "Deleterious exotic wildlife".

del·e·te·ri·ous/ˌdeliˈti(ə)rēəs/Adjective: Causing harm or damage.
Synonyms: harmful - injurious - noisome - detrimental - prejudicial

Meaning some idiot released a non native species in our area. They are 100% legal game with no limits or closed seasons.
I would also add they are quite tasty.
This is the same reason I know an area that has Pheasants. We even had wild hogs at one point until the hogs owners finally got what was left of them back in his pens.



So then it would be safe to say that you've never killed a wild turkey? The reason being that if you had hunted actual wild turkeys in their natural habitat withe traditional shotgun loads and chokes, you'd realize the difficulty in getting everything just right for a clean kill is much more so than shooting a swiming duck.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Rick Hall » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:47 pm

I seem to recall Roger Latham, the granddaddy of modern turkey writers, being a strong advocate of only shooting them in the air. Probably spinning in his grave over the depths of moral depravity his once noble sport has sunken to.
If you think I'm wrong, you might be right.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Kasilofchrisn » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:53 pm

Frank Lopez wrote:
Kasilofchrisn wrote:
Frank Lopez wrote:
Kasilofchrisn wrote:To be honest Frank I am not much of a turkey hunter.
Although I did shoot 3 wild turkeys last September with my trusty old Winchester 12 gauge and I killed 2 more this spring.


Interesting. I wasn't aware you had wild turkeys on the Kenai!

Frank

There you go assuming they were shot here in Alaska on the Kenai Peninsula.
But yes they were killed in Kasilof. They are called "Deleterious exotic wildlife".

del·e·te·ri·ous/ˌdeliˈti(ə)rēəs/Adjective: Causing harm or damage.
Synonyms: harmful - injurious - noisome - detrimental - prejudicial

Meaning some idiot released a non native species in our area. They are 100% legal game with no limits or closed seasons.
I would also add they are quite tasty.
This is the same reason I know an area that has Pheasants. We even had wild hogs at one point until the hogs owners finally got what was left of them back in his pens.



So then it would be safe to say that you've never killed a wild turkey? The reason being that if you had hunted actual wild turkeys in their natural habitat withe traditional shotgun loads and chokes, you'd realize the difficulty in getting everything just right for a clean kill is much more so than shooting a swiming duck.

Frank


OK frank one last and final post. These were farm raised wild Turkeys illegaly released into the wild at some point (sorry no pic handy).
Regardless of the habitat (mixed spruce and birch woods)or the load and choke (#2 black cloud and IM barrell)I did not throw anything(other than the black cloud BB's) at these birds or yell to scare them into the air or make them run.I just snuck up on them and blasted away and no one has or would give me any grief for it.
But make it a duck or goose and people get miffed cause they should be scared into the air first.
Bottom Line:
You hunt your way within the law and I'll do the same.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Mudgun » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:26 am

So I guess this isn't the thread to discuss "folding a pattern" into a flock of coots to increase your bag?

Or whistling so the ducks pop their heads up right as you shoot?
NOW WITH MORE 100% MORE VITRIOLIC SARCASM!!!
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby m.teeter » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:32 pm

If you've fooled them and called them from the heavens and they drop right in and land in the dekes, then by all means whack em. Heck you did your job right obviously if you fooled them enough to get them to sit down with a bunch of plastic decoys. I shoot very few birds off the water but when I get the chance they usually come home headless.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby canadianhunter1 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:14 am

I hunt primarily to put food on the family table; secondly for the time in the outdoors. Most meat in a grocery store is laced with hormones and antibiotics so its nice to have a healthy alternative once in a while (especially for the kids). That being said here are the reasons why I do not hesitate to shoot ducks and geese on the water:
1. You destroy less meat. Shooting at ducks in the air (especially when they are coming towards you) tends to badly damage the breast/leg meat. I don't want to kill something only to throw 1/2 or all of the meat away.
2. You have a far better chance of killing the bird (making it, in my opinion, more "ethical"). Shooting in the air has a far greater probability of injury/crippling; in addition leaving your blind to retrieve a crippled bird may take a long time and flush/deter any remaining flocks. *I would like to mention that killing sitting ducks can become difficult beyond 30 yards (due to much of their vitals being protected) so I always take mine closer (using full choke made specifically for steel shot, #4, aiming for the head; just like turkey hunting it works great).
3. Avoid unintended kills/injured birds. I rarely see ducks arriving alone, they usually come in flocks of 3+. By putting up a cloud of steel shot at a passing flock (regardless of how committed they are, or how good your aim is) it is still possible to wound or kill birds you were not aiming for (a question of "ethics" again). Shooting on the water allows you to pick the duck you want to take, and make sure no others are too close. Which leads me to my next point.
4. It is much easier to identify the species (especially when hunting early morning or late evening). Many provinces/states have specific daily bag limits for different species depending on hunting zone. Here in Quebec (South of Montreal) you are allowed a maximum of 6 ducks daily, of which only 1 can be teal or barrows goldeneye. By taking them on the water you can be sure you are following regulations (those rules exist for a reason).
5. Safer (at least in my hunting area). I hunt a small river (30 yards wide) with a blind built along the edge, and know that I am the only hunter for at least 1 km in either direction (private land that I have exclusive rights to). In addition there is a 15 ft. sandy bank on the other side so there is no risk from shot skipping across the water, as well as good visibility (I am surrounded by farm fields with minimal cover). Also, no one likes steel shot bouncing off their roofs or falling in their back yards; this avoids it altogether.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm

Not criticizing your decision, but I think there's some faulty logic in your reasoning.

canadianhunter1 wrote:I hunt primarily to put food on the family table; secondly for the time in the outdoors. Most meat in a grocery store is laced with hormones and antibiotics so its nice to have a healthy alternative once in a while (especially for the kids). That being said here are the reasons why I do not hesitate to shoot ducks and geese on the water:


While I agree that most of the meat in the stores is laced with hormones and other chemicals, you really need to compare apples to apples. Most of the states south of the 49th parallel have recommendations regarding how many meals per month one should eat with respect to waterfowl. Some waterfowl, like mergansers, are recommended not to be eaten at all.

canadianhunter1 wrote:1. You destroy less meat. Shooting at ducks in the air (especially when they are coming towards you) tends to badly damage the breast/leg meat. I don't want to kill something only to throw 1/2 or all of the meat away.


Shooting a duck or goose on the water is no different than shooting the same bird in the air except for the presentation. And then, in many cases, the presentations are really identical. The difference is that the shot, if properly sized, has more of a chance of passing through the duck in the air than the same bird on the water. The reason is that the bird on the water has most of it's vitals below the waterline and guarded by the wings folded over its back and that backbone. Additionally, the angle of approach on a sitting duck is very shallow, so the duck's exposed body parts, except for the head and neck, enjoy the same physical advantages of sloping armor on a tank.

canadianhunter1 wrote:2. You have a far better chance of killing the bird (making it, in my opinion, more "ethical"). Shooting in the air has a far greater probability of injury/crippling; in addition leaving your blind to retrieve a crippled bird may take a long time and flush/deter any remaining flocks. *I would like to mention that killing sitting ducks can become difficult beyond 30 yards (due to much of their vitals being protected) so I always take mine closer (using full choke made specifically for steel shot, #4, aiming for the head; just like turkey hunting it works great).


This is highly debatable. As explained above, the majority of the ducks vitals are well protected. This would require going up a pellet size, at least, to ensure proper penetration. When you do this, you lower total pellet count. A lower pellet count makes the chance of a pellet striking the most vulnerable vital organs, the neck and brain, less likely. To be consistant to kill ducks on the water, you need very small pellets and lots of them. If you're using one of the heavier than lead alternatives, that isn't much of a problem. I'm guessing here, but the indications I get from your post tells me you're shooting steel. If that's the case, for large size ducks, you're going to want about an ounce of #6 shot. This will ensure the pattern density necessary to ensure a pellet strike to the head and neck and ensure a kill. But, this also cuts down the effective range. You'll need to get the birds close, like 30 yards. Sometimes that's an issue.

canadianhunter1 wrote:3. Avoid unintended kills/injured birds. I rarely see ducks arriving alone, they usually come in flocks of 3+. By putting up a cloud of steel shot at a passing flock (regardless of how committed they are, or how good your aim is) it is still possible to wound or kill birds you were not aiming for (a question of "ethics" again). Shooting on the water allows you to pick the duck you want to take, and make sure no others are too close. Which leads me to my next point.


Unless you're skybusting at birds you have absolutely no right to shoot at, this isn't how a shot cloud works. You may hit the bird further back in line than the one you intended to shoot, but it is a very rare thing to drop two birds with one shot. I have done it a couple or three times, and every time it was when two birds were exactly lined up with the shot, not when one was trailing the other.


canadianhunter1 wrote:4. It is much easier to identify the species (especially when hunting early morning or late evening). Many provinces/states have specific daily bag limits for different species depending on hunting zone. Here in Quebec (South of Montreal) you are allowed a maximum of 6 ducks daily, of which only 1 can be teal or barrows goldeneye. By taking them on the water you can be sure you are following regulations (those rules exist for a reason).


Distance is distance. If the birds are in the air, there are ways to recognize the species beyond the visual. Flight patterns, sounds and silhouettes all are part of the identification process. Identifying a hen mallard vs a black duck is sometimes a problem. But whether in the air or on the water, you still need to ba able to identify them.

canadianhunter1 wrote:5. Safer (at least in my hunting area). I hunt a small river (30 yards wide) with a blind built along the edge, and know that I am the only hunter for at least 1 km in either direction (private land that I have exclusive rights to). In addition there is a 15 ft. sandy bank on the other side so there is no risk from shot skipping across the water, as well as good visibility (I am surrounded by farm fields with minimal cover). Also, no one likes steel shot bouncing off their roofs or falling in their back yards; this avoids it altogether.


Round shot fired from a shotgun will ricochet off water as will any bullet, if the angle is correct. In fact, this is actually one of the questions on the NYS sportsman's education test. The other thing to consider is that a ricochet is not necessarily linear. The pellets can and do fly off in several directions. And a double ricochet, the pellets bouncing off the water and hitting something on the far bank, could cause them to come right back at you. If, as you say, there is nothing for at least 1km, you needn't worry. No legal pellet fired from a shotgun will travel half that distance, even with a tail wind.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby greenster » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:06 pm

sounds like a bunch of people that can put em in the decoy's to me.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby fowlplay56 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:50 pm

Waterfowling is my favorite sport because of the challenge of hitting birds in every flight pattern possible. The feeling you get when your buddy high fives you after a great shot or a scotch double is the reason I get out of bed at 4am in the frigid weather. I don't get that feeling shooting a duck on the water or a deer with a gun for that matter. Its not about killing for me, the fun's over when that happens. Its about the sport and beauty of the surroundings. Watching a teal rise up and catch a thermal after a ring of misses is far better in my experience than letting him land and swatting him off the water. That being said, I've killed lots of critters and we all evolve in our sport to using more traditional methods, or challenging ourselves different ways. Folks that are just starting out in the sport should shoot them anyway they can, to handle the birds and ID them etc. After they have killed their share they will conform as well. The hunting community has too many "numbers guys", but they are usually the ones trying to prove something to someone. To each his own and God bless you if you need to shoot ducks to feed your family.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby dakotashooter2 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:30 pm

There are plent of other critters I can "kill on the ground" . Shooting waterfowl on the wing give me a different challenge. Someone mentioned it is safer, but couldn't one argue that shooting them with a .22 on the water be safer yet (single projectile)? But we are not allowed to do that. I also learned years ago that only a head shot was going to "finish" birds on the water. After years of watching my shot hit the water around the bird and not having an effect I learned to aim a little higher.


There is something to be said about seeing the splashdown. Is seeing a WWII fighter sitting on the water sinking as exciting as watching it splash into the water?
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby COYOTE JLR » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:07 pm

Where I usually hunt, there are many days where I'm fortunate if I even have the chance to take shots at a limit of ducks. Now, I don't hunt just in order to feed my family, but I am "poor" and getting my licenses and ammo uses up all of the fun money that I can allow myself for months. Being able to add meet to the freezer, while maybe not entirely cost effective, does make the hunting considerably more worthwhile. It balances out the cost a little bit and every duck makes a difference toward that.

I always try to shoot birds while they're on the wing, and I try to get them to land. If they're in my spread and I hop up and they don't do anything, I have no qualms about swatting the first one and then going for the others in flight. I gave them a chance, I jump up, they see me, I'll wait a few seconds, and I figure there's not a thing else I can do to make it fair to them.

I've never seen a water swatted bird get up and fly away and the vast majority of the time they're dead right there on the first shot. I don't know if it's just that I've always made sure they're close enough when I swat them, or if I just take a little extra time to aim toward their head, but so far they've all been as humane a kill as any other shot I've taken. I've seen plenty of birds hit on the wing and keep going, but never a swatted bird.

I don't know. These are just my experiences, and I'm sure that there are guys who have seen swatting go bad, but I figure if someone has got the birds to land and is taking a safe shot within range, then there's nothing to be upset about. It may not be your style, and I can respect that, but I can't see how anybody has the right to look down on someone else who is hunting safely. (I know that many of you who are against swatting don't look down on others, I just use the term as a rough generalization) Frankly, I'm just glad to see someone out there hunting. Another hunter is a far cry better than those who oppose it.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Smith » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:23 pm

I think the biggest difference in the opinions shown here stem from differences in point of view. Each one of us approaches hunting with a different goal or different expectations. I couldn’t help noticing several statements that are completely at odds with my feelings on the subject; enough to prompt me to summarize a few of them:

“The feeling you get when your buddy high fives you after a great shot or a scotch double is the reason I get out of bed at 4am in the frigid weather.”
That’s not why I go out. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen hunters high fiving over a successful shot. Almost by definition, a “great shot” is a low-percentage shot on which you lucked out. I don’t know what a “scotch double” is, but I suspect, by context, that it means hitting two birds with one shot? In either case, it’s not what I’m trying to accomplish when I’m hunting. The challenge for me is to reduce all the shots to easy ones by decoying the ducks successfully and completely. Though it is sometimes hard to resist, I try not to take difficult shots, because, again, by definition, they are the most likely ones to cause lost cripples.

“Watching a teal rise up and catch a thermal after a ring of misses is far better in my experience than letting him land and swatting him off the water.”
I don’t know what “catch a thermal” means, but I don’t shoot teal on the water either. I don’t shoot teal at all. It’s not because they aren’t sporting, and it’s not because they don’t taste good; it’s because they are just so small, and I don’t feel good about taking one’s life for a couple of bites of meat the size of a potato chip. Same goes for buffleheads. Again, perfectly good ducks, and game to the core, but just too small. Shooting them just makes me feel sad, and that is certainly not why I’m out there. And by the way, most guys I’ve hunted with have no qualms about shooting teal or buffies, and that’s fine by me. To each, his own.

“Folks that are just starting out in the sport should shoot them anyway they can, to handle the birds and ID them etc. After they have killed their share they will conform as well.”
I couldn’t disagree more. In my experience, it is the oldest guys who have been hunting for a million years that are the most likely to have a “why not?” attitude toward swatting. Usually, it’s the guys who have been hunting for just a few years and are still trying to prove something (usually, to themselves), that have the biggest and loudest objection to it.

“The hunting community has too many "numbers guys", but they are usually the ones trying to prove something to someone.”
I agree, but those aren’t usually the water swatters. Those are the guys bragging about higher, faster, and farther.

“Someone mentioned it is safer, but couldn't one argue that shooting them with a .22 on the water be safer yet (single projectile)?”
No. A shotgun pattern loses its dangerous velocity in a much shorter distance than a .22.

“If they're in my spread and I hop up and they don't do anything, I have no qualms about swatting the first one and then going for the others in flight. I gave them a chance, I jump up, they see me, I'll wait a few seconds, and I figure there's not a thing else I can do to make it fair to them.”
I agree completely. If you’re in the mood to take the easy shot where it sits, no problemo. Besides, any sense of fairness left the equation the second you picked up a 12 guage and the duck didn’t have one.

“Where do you think the term "sitting duck" came from?”
In common usage, it implies nothing about the aggressor, but describes the predicament of a potential victim, implying near certain destruction. That’s just what I’m trying to accomplish with my decoy rig.

“I think it all depends on the reason you are hunting. If you are hunting for sport then by all means jump them up then shoot. Missing the duck only means you eat a hamburger instead. If you are hunting for the meat and to feed your family then I really don't care if you shoot them on the water.”
My family doesn’t need to eat ducks. We like to eat ducks. Ducks are special. I don’t shoot every duck that presents the opportunity. Far from it. If I’m not inclined to take a shot, for whatever reason, I don’t take it. On the other hand, if I want the duck, I take it, whether it is flying (usually), or sitting in the decoys (sometimes).

“I also wonder do you yell at your deer so they take off running before you shoot at them?” … “Not really a valid comparison. First off, most deer hunting (be patient, I'll get to buckshot in a minute), is done with weapons shooting a single projectile that must be placed within a specific area of the animal to ensure a clean kill.”
I think it was a perfectly valid comparison, the biggest difference being in your mindset, and I guess that’s ok. But, just as the single projectile has to be placed “within a specific area”, so too must a shotgun pattern be placed more-or-less centrally on the target to dependably kill it. Either one is easier when the target is stationary, and either one can be done with the target in motion, but with a lower likelihood of success. That’s why competitive shooters shoot moving targets instead of clay targets propped up on broomsticks. They’re harder to hit when moving.

“For me, it's a matter of pride. No challenge shootin a "sittin duck". Kind of like huntin fenced in whitails by a feeder.”
I’ve been hunting ducks since the early seventies, and I’m quite comfortable with my ability to hit a duck one second after it jumps off the water. In fact, I’m also quite comfortable with missing one now and then. Not much pride involved either way, I’m just shooting a duck to eat. As I said earlier, the challenge to me is to fool the ducks completely and reduce all the shots to easy ones over (or in) the decoys. Mission accomplished.

“On small water holes it can be a safety issue particularly if other hunters are around. Pellets like bullets will skip on the water.”
Hehe. Would it make you feel better if we shoot them directly in the face?

“I don't know about anyone else but I have one heck of a time killing cripples on the water. I maybe get 1 in 10 with just one shot.”
I suspect you’re shooting too far. Water swatting cripples, I usually kill them on the first shot. I do see guys sometimes shooting at cripples 70 or 80 yards out. What do they expect? Close the distance, then shoot.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby thomashamm2 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:41 pm

we have no problem shooting them on the water. They die anyway...might as well have a better chance. Getting ducks to land on the water is the ultimate in duck hunting because you convinced the ducks your decoys are live ducks. if were having a good day and it looks like were gonna get a good amount sometimes just for sport we jump them and try to hit them in the air.
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Stish85 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:26 pm

Very interesting thread seeing all the different view points. My personal opinion is that I will try to always shoot on the fly. However if they land in the decoys I stand up and step out from my hide andthey don't fly I shoot them on the water. I gave them the chance and they didn't leave. I find that with today's modern full chokes hitting the head of a duck inside 25 yards is about as straight forward of a shot there is. And let's be honest shooting a duck a foot before it hits the water or the second it leaves the water isn't all that different. Birds that are that close to landing are more or less stationary anyway. And if you jump them up I venture most already have the gun shouldered and aimed slightly above the target anyway so it's usually just a matter of squeezing the shot off when the bird jumps up.

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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby LuvMyLab » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:29 pm

I believe, on the water is fine if they are wounded(obviously) or won't take off.

If you try to swat a duck on the water 30 yrds away, you are either goin to dispatch it right out because you got lucky and put a pellet in the head or wound it because all it's vitals are protected by wing & water, especially with steel shot.

When hitting a duck in the air (in range) you have a much better chance to hit vital organs and harvest it cleanly. Taking the time to learn what angles pellets will penetrate a ducks armor most effectually is part of being a ethical educated waterfowler.

With that said if somebody is shooting a duck to feed their family I say get it anyway you can!

At least that's what I was taught.

What's more of an issue for me are people that duck hunt with out a dog or boat, shoot at birds over a huge bull rush field that have no dog to track the down'd bird.

Just my 2 cents
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby agengo02 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:21 pm

A dead duck is a dead duck. The end. Whether you use a falcon, shoot them on the water, or shoot them in the air, the goal of every hunter is to kill them dead. I don't know anybody (water swatters or only wing shooters) that want to cripple a bird so we are ALL trying to do the exact same thing; kill a duck.

It's funny bringing up deer hunting as ethical and water swatting is not, considering deer hunters can use a bow and arrow with the ideal/perfect shot being a lung shot to slowly bleed them out.

Whichever legal method you use, it is ONLY unethical if you do not try to kill the animal as fast as possible.

I shoot ducks on the water (when I get the chance) because it is as close to a 100% shot as I can get when duck hunting. And the guy saying that a duck on the water is only a 1 in 10 shot to kill it, I call BS. I read that as you needed something to help your argument.

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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby Frank Lopez » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:36 pm

agengo02 wrote:Whichever legal method you use, it is ONLY unethical if you do not try to kill the animal as fast as possible.


This statement, however unintended, is actually a condemnation of shooting ducks on the water. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of shooters that are swatting are using the wrong ammunition to accomplish the task humanely.

agengo02 wrote:And the guy saying that a duck on the water is only a 1 in 10 shot to kill it, I call BS. I read that as you needed something to help your argument.


You can call it whatever you like, but the fact of the matter is that the guy calling it a 1 in 10 shot is probably pretty close to being correct. There is a good deal of difference between penetration through the breast and penetration through the backbone alone, let alone through the backbone AND folded wings! This cuts the exposed vital area to about 1/3 or less than the accepted average. This means that to be effective, a pattern needs to have a much higher density to ensure pellet strikes that will humanely kill the bird. It is the precise reason that I hunt ducks with 1 1/4oz #2 steel and keep 1 oz #6s on hand for any cripples.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby sampsonhuntin » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:59 pm

They taste the same from a 10 yard water swat as they do when I shoot them in the air at 30. What the problem is?
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Re: Shooting Ducks/Geese on the water

Postby MinnesotaDan » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:10 pm

I won't hunt with people who don't water swat. Too sanctimonious, too self-righteous, too much finger followed with a "I would NEVER..."
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