Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby longboman » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:43 pm

mudpack wrote:
longboman wrote:
mudpack wrote: There's a good reason it doesn't feel right......

You sound like the turkey hunting purist that scouffs at bushwacking.....turkeys.

Thank you. I appreciate the compliment.



No problem, I guess you take'm anyway you can gett'em lol. I guess this "sport" hunting is all relative. Nothing about driving around in a boat scouting, getting up early the next day, get on the lake, setting out decoys and calling like a world champ can compete with going out west to a strange land you never been to, packing in on foot with about 7 days of gear with homemade bows and arrows and hunting elk on your own. Which of those is "real hunting" ? Like I said before nothing wrong with a traditional duck hunt but I've never put down another way someone else chooses to "hunt", even though there is no hunting really. So, nothing wrong with a "jump shoot hunt" . Cause to where I've been traditional duck hunting is not hunting either. Its time consuming, a committment to scout, learn to call etc etc.....but its not a "hunt" at all. Its a dam good way to spend some time in the outdoors and thats what its all about
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby blackrock » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:41 pm

I thought we put this to rest in December! I still think my first posts summed it up for the OP. I enjoy the occasional jump shooting hunting trip. It's just one way we hunt. Perfect sneak, flush, and pick out one nice bird to shoot. I consider that a lot more of a "hunt" than what I see happen in the outdoors over decoys too often. Probably my favorite way to shoot ducks is out of a layout boat, in open water as they come in right on the deck, especially puddlers and geese. A lot of the " hunters" I see with decoys out use them just enough to get a look from a flock, then unleash a hail of steel from somewhere between 40 and 100 yards. Boy, that's hunting. Kudos to those who do it right. How many of the birds with pellets in their gut die slowly later? My point is, there are many situations and ways to hunt waterfowl, and done ethically, with a little common sense, can all be a great way to enjoy the outdoors with family and friends, maybe take home a couple birds. There, that's my soapbox.......
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby mudpack » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:30 am

longboman wrote:I've never put down another way someone else chooses to "hunt", even though there is no hunting really.


You are to be commended for your non-judgemental attitude. :thumbsup:

I'm not quite as liberal as you.

Several years ago, two teenaged boys sneaked into the city park after dark and shot half a dozen Canada geese with pellet rifles. When they were caught a few days later, they claimed they were "hunting." Pretty much a true story.

I bring this up to illustrate that, at some point, we all draw the line on the methods we use to hunt, even condemning those who step below that line. I trust you're no different in that respect.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby woodduck31 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:49 am

So many perspectives on how people see things. It's got me thinking about how I was raised in regards to hunting, what is ethical, what is practical, what is not fair chase. I've also thought a lot about how my great grandad would have seen it back in the early 1900's, when hunting was for survival and primarily unregulated. Hunting for most of us at present has nothing to do with survival, especially when it comes to ducks. We would be money ahead buying poultry at the grocery store, but we hunt because it's enjoyable. 34 years ago when my wife and I married, we were poor, I worked as a farm hand for 5 years and made about $6000 a year and lived in a small hired hand house. I had a part time preaching job that paid $50 a week and earned $3 an hour farming for my landlord. Hunting back then was not just for fun and the more efficient I could be, the better. There was no time to spend sitting in a blind drinking coffee with my friends, but I was able to get quite a few ducks and geese while running my trapline through the winter. One of our biggest purchases back then was a freezer that we still have, (I can't believe it still runs) The $300 price tag was nearly insurmountable, but we needed to have a way to keep meat. I could make about $1000 a year on my trapline and could get ducks and geese off the creek and ponds on a fairly regular basis. At that time along the Illinois river near Pittsfield, the only duck hunting over decoys was on a club, there was no such thing as a poor guy like me putting out decoys and sitting in a blind.

In Illinois I hunted over decoys one time with some ducks unlimited guys who had asked me for a donation of artwork, we shot one duck that day. Interestingly enough, their ethics were such that they wouldn't shoot at a duck except on the rise after it had landed in the decoys. They didn't feel like they had the right to shoot a duck unless they had it fully committed into the decoys.

For those 5 years back in the early 80's I jump shot ducks exclusively, but it was a very opportunistic endeavor. When we could catch some waterfowl on the ponds or creek, we would make our best effort to collect a few for the table. I was hunting for food. I would find birds when I was driving a tractor or working livestock and go back later to get a few of them. Making it more sporting wasn't as important to me as being efficient, shells cost money, leisure time didn't exist. Maybe we have separated ourselves so much from the hunting for food aspect that we've had to create more rules to the game in order to make it seem "more sporting". Some people can't afford the luxury of the newest and best decoys, ground blinds, leases, etc. etc. For some, just the expense of buying shells is daunting. I feel like hunting legally and efficiently is perfectly fine and I don't really worry too much about what others think of my methods or approach as long as I'm hunting legally and ethically. Most of us have created our own version of how it's supposed to be done ethically and with fair chase. I've always hated spinners because I felt like they were not fair chase methods and I couldn't afford them anyway. It leveled the playing field too much for me, giving greenhorns as much ability to attract birds as an old experienced hunter.

I used to hunt big game exclusively with a bow until I lost much of the use of my left shoulder. Honestly I did judge people that weren't bow hunters, kind of held us bowhunters on a higher level. When it comes to duck hunting now, I don't like pass shooting, I don't like spinners, I don't like using anything with batteries, but I like the challenge of putting ducks on the water in the decoys.

When it comes to turkey hunting, I have never shot a bird that didn't come to the call and I rarely use decoys, it's the way I hunt. My dad puts out all the decoys he can get his hands on for turkeys and I don't judge him for that.

Most of us have probably gone way past hunting for food these days and hunt for the enjoyment of it. The kids who shot the geese in the park with pellet guns must have missed that lesson, it was a goose killing without respect.

What hunting has become can still be a positive thing for young people. It can be a place where ethics are taught, a proving ground in some respects, where a young person can meet the line between life and death of a creature and understand it's worth in not just food, but respect from others who appreciate the experience.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby blackrock » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:06 pm

woodduck31 wrote:So many perspectives on how people see things. It's got me thinking about how I was raised in regards to hunting, what is ethical, what is practical, what is not fair chase. I've also thought a lot about how my great grandad would have seen it back in the early 1900's, when hunting was for survival and primarily unregulated. Hunting for most of us at present has nothing to do with survival, especially when it comes to ducks. We would be money ahead buying poultry at the grocery store, but we hunt because it's enjoyable. 34 years ago when my wife and I married, we were poor, I worked as a farm hand for 5 years and made about $6000 a year and lived in a small hired hand house. I had a part time preaching job that paid $50 a week and earned $3 an hour farming for my landlord. Hunting back then was not just for fun and the more efficient I could be, the better. There was no time to spend sitting in a blind drinking coffee with my friends, but I was able to get quite a few ducks and geese while running my trapline through the winter. One of our biggest purchases back then was a freezer that we still have, (I can't believe it still runs) The $300 price tag was nearly insurmountable, but we needed to have a way to keep meat. I could make about $1000 a year on my trapline and could get ducks and geese off the creek and ponds on a fairly regular basis. At that time along the Illinois river near Pittsfield, the only duck hunting over decoys was on a club, there was no such thing as a poor guy like me putting out decoys and sitting in a blind.

In Illinois I hunted over decoys one time with some ducks unlimited guys who had asked me for a donation of artwork, we shot one duck that day. Interestingly enough, their ethics were such that they wouldn't shoot at a duck except on the rise after it had landed in the decoys. They didn't feel like they had the right to shoot a duck unless they had it fully committed into the decoys.

For those 5 years back in the early 80's I jump shot ducks exclusively, but it was a very opportunistic endeavor. When we could catch some waterfowl on the ponds or creek, we would make our best effort to collect a few for the table. I was hunting for food. I would find birds when I was driving a tractor or working livestock and go back later to get a few of them. Making it more sporting wasn't as important to me as being efficient, shells cost money, leisure time didn't exist. Maybe we have separated ourselves so much from the hunting for food aspect that we've had to create more rules to the game in order to make it seem "more sporting". Some people can't afford the luxury of the newest and best decoys, ground blinds, leases, etc. etc. For some, just the expense of buying shells is daunting. I feel like hunting legally and efficiently is perfectly fine and I don't really worry too much about what others think of my methods or approach as long as I'm hunting legally and ethically. Most of us have created our own version of how it's supposed to be done ethically and with fair chase. I've always hated spinners because I felt like they were not fair chase methods and I couldn't afford them anyway. It leveled the playing field too much for me, giving greenhorns as much ability to attract birds as an old experienced hunter.

I used to hunt big game exclusively with a bow until I lost much of the use of my left shoulder. Honestly I did judge people that weren't bow hunters, kind of held us bowhunters on a higher level. When it comes to duck hunting now, I don't like pass shooting, I don't like spinners, I don't like using anything with batteries, but I like the challenge of putting ducks on the water in the decoys.

When it comes to turkey hunting, I have never shot a bird that didn't come to the call and I rarely use decoys, it's the way I hunt. My dad puts out all the decoys he can get his hands on for turkeys and I don't judge him for that.

Most of us have probably gone way past hunting for food these days and hunt for the enjoyment of it. The kids who shot the geese in the park with pellet guns must have missed that lesson, it was a goose killing without respect.

What hunting has become can still be a positive thing for young people. It can be a place where ethics are taught, a proving ground in some respects, where a young person can meet the line between life and death of a creature and understand it's worth in not just food, but respect from others who appreciate the experience.
Nice post woodduck, good perspective.......
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby joemc » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:30 pm

the way I look at it is jump shooting is about as primal as you can get with a shotgun in hand, if you are just looking for ducks to eat than go ahead but now we need to understand that with all the new technology today, hard hunting isn't really hard hunting, I believe in hunting for the challenge as well as the meat.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby TomKat » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:25 am

I love to jump snows

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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby blackrock » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:31 am

image.jpg
Second that on the Snows!
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby Slack Tide » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:18 am

You probably have a roosting spot...many times (especially as the season wears on and hunting pressure heats up) ducks will sit until they really have a reason to get up and out. You might try getting there really early one day....and be really slow and quiet setting up...maybe you will get a few birds dump in at first light.....then try again at late afternoon as birds return...
doesn't sound like a mid day spot.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby Slack Tide » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:23 am

I don't think this is too sporting...but....it shows you what's out there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKYoT0ZnWBY
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby mudpack » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:26 pm

Slack Tide wrote:I don't think this is too sporting...but....it shows you what's out there..


yep.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby KRB » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:18 pm

It's animal control, flock shooting, not hunting.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby mudpack » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:39 am

KRB wrote:It's animal control, flock shooting, not hunting.

Very well put, KRB.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:56 am

we do it over here...walking a creek with the hound fossicking around in the shallows..waiting watching to see if he springs anything out..the chance of a rabbit ,hare or even a deer along the riverside somewhere..the cool autumn breeze blowing downstream,the colors of the leaves and the chance to get out of the house for a stretch of the legs keeps us going back time and again. we have other spots we walk/STALK....spotting birds be it mallards or canada geese at long range with binos and stalking to within range without being spotted then jumping up over a bank and dropping a few as they take off is a heck of a lot of fun...plurry great exercise and the only way a lot of us get a chance at a bird or three when time is short and main hunting spot is along way from home.
as for guys shooting decoys....the bastards were water swatting and should be prosecuted for that and not positively identifying target..its fu%&wits like them that shoot other people during the roar/rutting season.....
enough said..I too will climb down off beer crate :beer:
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby tylers1 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:21 pm

Thanks everyone for your responses, I enjoy hearing everyone's perspective. Jump shooting is definitely a different experience than shooting over decoys. I will continue to enjoy both.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby Duck_Stank » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:20 pm

Funny you mention water swatting being unethical Elvis. Many moons ago, it was considered unethical to shoot them while flying. Times sure do change.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby Rick Hall » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:39 pm

Duck_Stank wrote:Funny you mention water swatting being unethical Elvis. Many moons ago, it was considered unethical to shoot them while flying. Times sure do change.


That must have been a great, great many moons ago, as I've read a lot of bird hunting history going back to the days when netting was as common as shooting and don't recall mention of such. Do, however, recall the late outdoors writer Roger Latham still suggesting it was unsporting to shoot turkeys on the ground as late as the '60s. And when guns larger than 10ga were outlawed for waterfowling, I'm pretty sure it went all the way to the Supreme Court on the argument that it was unethical to shoot waterfowl with anything less than an 8ga. So times do, indeed, change.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby KRB » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:10 am

Duck_Stank wrote:Funny you mention water swatting being unethical Elvis. Many moons ago, it was considered unethical to shoot them while flying. Times sure do change.

I have quite a collection of old waterfowling books and stories, never heard that either.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby Duck_Stank » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:32 am

KRB wrote:
Duck_Stank wrote:Funny you mention water swatting being unethical Elvis. Many moons ago, it was considered unethical to shoot them while flying. Times sure do change.

I have quite a collection of old waterfowling books and stories, never heard that either.

I've read it from an article about duck hunting shortly after market hunting was outlawed and the populations were low. If I can find it again, I will post it.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby KRB » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:02 pm

Duck_Stank wrote:
KRB wrote:
Duck_Stank wrote:Funny you mention water swatting being unethical Elvis. Many moons ago, it was considered unethical to shoot them while flying. Times sure do change.

I have quite a collection of old waterfowling books and stories, never heard that either.

I've read it from an article about duck hunting shortly after market hunting was outlawed and the populations were low. If I can find it again, I will post it.

I would like to see it, if you can . :thumbsup:
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:35 am

it was the norm here in NZ back in the early last century and I THINK the change was around 1970....at that time you werent allowed cartridges longer than 2 3/4" either..... the ethics aside.... its against the law.
personally it doesnt ruffle my feathers either way its against the law so we dont do it.
how you get your bag limit is your business as long as you do it legally.
if it were legal and a fella fired 2 shots to get his limit well and good AS LONG as he then pissed off home for the day and left ducks alone for the rest of us.
it should limit skybusting if guys were letting them land :no:
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby agengo02 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:44 am

With duck hunting, there are too many different situations for each person for us to determine which is adheres to our own personal code of ethics. We watch that video of the snow geese posted above and instantly think, how unethical; yet we all acknowledge that snow geese have exploded and something drastic needs to happen to control their population. So I'll ask, which is better for the snow goose in terms of population as a whole; you shooting 20 over decoys in a traditional manner or these guys dropping 50+ (only a guesstimate) on a roost pond.

Definitely not the way I want to hunt them, but it shows that ethics, especially in duck hunting, is far too subjective and personal to judge how another person does it. As long as everybody is within the local and federal laws, then there is nothing wrong with it.

:beer:
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby IowaWaterfowler10 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:47 pm

Jump shooting, and hitting birds on the fly I'm okay with. Sneaking up on birds loafing on the water, and not giving them a fighting chance is a no no. I believe the only time birds should be shot on the water is finishing a cripple, or if the bird landed in your decoys. If the bird is in your decoys clearly the game is over and you won, therefore kill how you please (within reason). :beer:
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby KRB » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:46 pm

Within the the law, each to his own.
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Re: Jump shooting, something doesn't feel right...

Postby Skeet123 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:55 pm

Good topic.

My experience has been that blind hunting is easier and more effective. Sneaking on birds in a canoe is about as tough as it gets. If you have a good walk in place to hunt go for it. Nothing wrong with jump hunting it is usually a much harder way to fill a limit.

I can remember many attempts of sneaking up on birds and most of the time after crawling a couple hundred yards the birds fly off without even a thought of taking a shot. I laugh when I think about it.
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