Expensive vs. cheap!

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Postby dx1187 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:24 pm

Duck Crazy wrote:
dx1187 wrote:WHAT?! If you are going to duck calling competitions, go with a $140 call. As far as putting ducks in the blind, I'll put my $20 calls up against a $140 call any day. There's a lot that goes unsaid about the "caller" too.

Just my .02!!


OKAY! you get the $20 call and Buck Gardner gets the $140 call...we'll see who wins


Are we talking about winning or killing ducks? :huh:
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Postby Duck Crazy » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:32 pm

"Wins"- puts more ducks in the blind.

im just trying to say that given the more versatile custom tuned duck call, the proficient caller (I chose Buck Gardner as an example because well he is the utmost proficient caller) will be able to out call the $20 call. Because he will be able to do anything the $20 call can do, plus the added tone and pitch variability.

the custom tuned call hands down allows the caller to do more. You can call ducks with a $20 call, but you will seriously limit yourself compared to if you operated a custom call (assuming the caller can actually operate the call).

Look at all these guys on here that are just flat out in love with T. Salt Calls.... we've got two threads about em with a total of 85 posts basically about how they can't get enough of em. I credit this to the fact that they got calls that are custom tuned to fit their calling styles and thus are able to operate the call comfortably and effectively.
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Postby dx1187 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:22 am

Duck Crazy wrote:"Wins"- puts more ducks in the blind.

im just trying to say that given the more versatile custom tuned duck call, the proficient caller (I chose Buck Gardner as an example because well he is the utmost proficient caller) will be able to out call the $20 call. Because he will be able to do anything the $20 call can do, plus the added tone and pitch variability.

the custom tuned call hands down allows the caller to do more. You can call ducks with a $20 call, but you will seriously limit yourself compared to if you operated a custom call (assuming the caller can actually operate the call).

Look at all these guys on here that are just flat out in love with T. Salt Calls.... we've got two threads about em with a total of 85 posts basically about how they can't get enough of em. I credit this to the fact that they got calls that are custom tuned to fit their calling styles and thus are able to operate the call comfortably and effectively.


I grant you that if you put me and Buck Gardner in the same slough and he had a hand tuned $130 call and I had (not one of his because most of them are too loud for timber or slough hunting) a $20 RNT tuned by me, (because yes, even the $20 poly call is tuneable), the ducks wouldn't give two sh*!s in a bucket about how "custom" or how well Buck's call suited him. I have a $20 RNT call that has been tuned that I guarentee you can't tell the difference in it and my RNT Timbre call except that the Timbre is just a hair softer due to the fact that it is wood.
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Postby dx1187 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:46 am

dx1187 wrote:
Duck Crazy wrote:"Wins"- puts more ducks in the blind.

im just trying to say that given the more versatile custom tuned duck call, the proficient caller (I chose Buck Gardner as an example because well he is the utmost proficient caller) will be able to out call the $20 call. Because he will be able to do anything the $20 call can do, plus the added tone and pitch variability.

the custom tuned call hands down allows the caller to do more. You can call ducks with a $20 call, but you will seriously limit yourself compared to if you operated a custom call (assuming the caller can actually operate the call).

Look at all these guys on here that are just flat out in love with T. Salt Calls.... we've got two threads about em with a total of 85 posts basically about how they can't get enough of em. I credit this to the fact that they got calls that are custom tuned to fit their calling styles and thus are able to operate the call comfortably and effectively.


I grant you that if you put me and Buck Gardner in the same slough and he had a hand tuned $130 call and I had (not one of his because most of them are too loud for timber or slough hunting) a $20 RNT tuned by me, (because yes, even the $20 poly call is tuneable), the ducks wouldn't give two sh*!s in a bucket about how "custom" or how well Buck's call suited him. I have a $20 RNT call that has been tuned that I guarentee you can't tell the difference in it and my RNT Timbre call except that the Timbre is just a hair softer due to the fact that it is wood. All that aside, I have spent many hours in the field just listening to ducks. I have never noticed that great of a range or that many pitches in a real ducks' cal. hmmm. The main thing that I look for in a call is, does it fit my calling style and does it sound like a duck.
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Postby Duck Crazy » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:45 pm

okay then i see where you're going with this, to that point i agree, All i've been trying to say is that with tuning you are going to sound better versus if you just pick up some call from walmart.

The reason I've been harping on the $140 call is because I feel like these calls are more hand tuned. They aren't just spit out of a mold one after the other.

One of the things I said on the Price????? thread about choosing the call was that:
Duck Crazy wrote:will not limit your ability as a caller, and provides you with the most versatility


To get a more versatile call that will not limit the caller, the call maker has to put time and effort into making a suitable call. Because they have to individually turn these calls the price of the call is much greater than a call they can just form in a mold and have pre-cut reeds for.

But see you infact made your $20 call a "custom" call when you tuned it yourself. So yes you got more performance out of a "custom" call.

I'm not saying everyone should get a $135 dollar call because it will make the sound better. The fact is, a more advanced call would definately make a lot of people sound worse and would hurt their calling. AND! there are a lot of people that sound good on a cheap call, because for some reason or another, that call just fits them. But for the people who can flat out run a call, having a call that can handle their abilities will make them a better caller because they will be able to just "do more."

Jimmie Johnson couldn't win in NASCAR if he was driving a Toyota Camry. He needs a more advanced car that will exploit and allow him to use his talents as a driver.
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Postby dx1187 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:28 pm

"Jimmie Johnson couldn't win in NASCAR if he was driving a Toyota Camry. He needs a more advanced car that will exploit and allow him to use his talents as a driver."

Which brings me back to what I origanlly said. Are we talking about winning a competition or calling in ducks?

Now, as far as a $140 call goes, they are not each individually hand tuned. The call makers work and work and work on a tone board, reed lengths, widths, thickness, hole diameters and a slough of other things that go into a call, until they have exactly what they are looking for. Then they cast a mold of that tone board and make a jig out of it, get all of their measurements of the reeds, mic the holes and set the computer to spit out that call. They might blow one in a hundred, maybe. I'll guarentee you that you can blow a RNT Daisy Cutter, set it down and pick up the Daisy Cutter next to it, it's going to sound different than the one before it. Unless you hand tune it or take it over to Rich N Tone and let them tune it, it is not a hand tuned call. The only difference in it and one that is sold at Wal-Mart is the materials used to make it, the time spent developing the call and the price tag that the retailer puts on it.
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Postby supr87gt » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:40 pm

mollyworker wrote: NO ONE can tell the difference in the soud of a good cheap call and a very expensive acrilic call.




If no one can, then why not take a $15 Gander Mtn call to a competition? Evidentally SOMEONE can tell the difference. But are you callling ducks or are you calling people?

I dont like this debate regardless. If you can make it sound good, use it. I like acrylic calls because of their durability. I put mine through the test every time Im out hunting. They seem to always be clanking against something. Will you get the same reliablity from an injection molded polycarbonate call that you will from a turned acrylic call? No you wont. You get what you pay for.
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Postby Duck Crazy » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:27 pm

All I know is, that I can make more sounds on my SGC Little Joel than on a DC-200 Duck Commander, so since I can do more with my more mechanically advanced call I am better prepared to confront more hunting situations. I just think in general the "custom" calls are just more versatile than other calls, so I'm gonna stay with em.
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby SauravGupta » Wed May 28, 2014 11:50 pm

SPAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby Frank Lopez » Thu May 29, 2014 2:33 pm

I didn't bother reading more than half this thread. Mostly because it's always the same old crap. The truth is that a duck cal (or any other game call) is actually like a musical instrument. Some woods or plastics will inherently generate better sound than others. Those materials are generally more expensive. Sometimes because the raw material is more expensive, but sometimes because the sound out of the call is better. Also like musical instruments, some people are capable of getting better sounds out of the thing than others. Music is said to be the universal language, but how many people are truly able to hear the difference in the sound quality of a beginner's violin and a Stradivarious. (By the way, those expensive materials for calls perform that way for the same reason that the Stradivarious creates the superior sound quality. It's in the way the sound resonates off the wood.)

The bottom line is that the idea is to fool a bird with a brain the size of half a walnut. If you've ever sat quietly in a blind and listened to real ducks, it is apparent that most of them do not know how to play a Stradivarious, nor do they have the ability to tell the difference. Most times, cadence has more to do with fooling birds than does the actual pitch.

Lastly, those $120 and up calls cost that much simply because a lot of people think that expensive is better and therefore an advantage. They just don't understand that you can't buy hunting success.

Frank
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby Rick Hall » Fri May 30, 2014 6:03 am

Frank Lopez wrote:I didn't bother reading more than half this thread. Mostly because it's always the same old crap. The truth is...


Psst...Frank, this thread is seven years old and was brought up by a spambot trying to generate posts to beat the filters. You're arguing with yourself. And wrong.
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri May 30, 2014 8:50 am

Rick Hall wrote: You're arguing with yourself. And wrong.


Really? You apparently have a very high regard for the cranial capabilities of a duck/goose. The fact is, they just aren't that bright. Variances in tone and volume have little bearing on the effectiveness of a call, if the call is used properly. A duck's voice is as individualistic as a human's. I'll say it a gain, it's all marketing. Those expensive calls cost "what the traffic will bear" because people are willing to buy them. And they are willing to buy them because they believe that those calls will get them more ducks. It's like an investor that buys a $5 million Stradivarious and suddenly thinks he's a concert violinist! And then there's the "front runner" factor. You know the guy. He has a new $2000 gun every year or two, the latest camo from Cabelas, the finest decoys money can buy and a string of calls that has a total worth in the thousands. His pickup is full camo and its rear window covered in decals and pro staff logos. In the mean time, the guy would be luck to score a 12 at a round of skeet, couldn't call a duck in a public park with a loaf of bread under each arm and doesn't have a clue as to how to set his blocks. In short, he's a marketer's dream.

The best waterfowlers I know shoot guns that are older than my children, and the only camo finish on them is the rusty patina of a salt marsh and worn off oil finish on the wood. Their decoys are either hand carved or old relics that are cobbled together to form some makeshift rig. Any resemblance to a real duck is purely coincidental. Their camo pattern is an old, beat up barn jacket. They have two calls, one for ducks and one for geese, each of them 40 years old or better. But, Lord, they know how to use them. They can make their rig come alive with the sound of half a dozen hen mallards out of a single call. They know how to set their decoys, and they know where to be as the conditions dicatate.

Contrary to what the marketing men would have you believe, waterfowling is a craft. A craft that has to be learned and practiced. It cannot be bought at any price.

Frank
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby aunt betty » Fri May 30, 2014 9:41 am

It needs to be said that a person who is truly proficient at calling ducks can sound good on about any good call thats tuned close enough.

Timing is far more important that how u sound or what call you are blowing.

When selecting a call I want loud, raspy, and something I can blow on as hard as I can and not stick.

Am a bit biased so take this with grain of salt. Buy a CCC Throwback.
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby Rick Hall » Fri May 30, 2014 10:32 am

Frank Lopez wrote:
Rick Hall wrote: You're arguing with yourself. And wrong.


Really? You apparently have a very high regard for the cranial capabilities of a duck/goose. The fact is, they just aren't that bright. Variances in tone and volume have little bearing on the effectiveness of a call, if the call is used properly. A duck's voice is as individualistic as a human's. I'll say it a gain, it's all marketing. Those expensive calls cost "what the traffic will bear" because people are willing to buy them. And they are willing to buy them because they believe that those calls will get them more ducks. It's like an investor that buys a $5 million Stradivarious and suddenly thinks he's a concert violinist! And then there's the "front runner" factor. You know the guy. He has a new $2000 gun every year or two, the latest camo from Cabelas, the finest decoys money can buy and a string of calls that has a total worth in the thousands. His pickup is full camo and its rear window covered in decals and pro staff logos. In the mean time, the guy would be luck to score a 12 at a round of skeet, couldn't call a duck in a public park with a loaf of bread under each arm and doesn't have a clue as to how to set his blocks. In short, he's a marketer's dream.

The best waterfowlers I know shoot guns that are older than my children, and the only camo finish on them is the rusty patina of a salt marsh and worn off oil finish on the wood. Their decoys are either hand carved or old relics that are cobbled together to form some makeshift rig. Any resemblance to a real duck is purely coincidental. Their camo pattern is an old, beat up barn jacket. They have two calls, one for ducks and one for geese, each of them 40 years old or better. But, Lord, they know how to use them. They can make their rig come alive with the sound of half a dozen hen mallards out of a single call. They know how to set their decoys, and they know where to be as the conditions dicatate.

Contrary to what the marketing men would have you believe, waterfowling is a craft. A craft that has to be learned and practiced. It cannot be bought at any price.

Frank


Dang, that was a boatload of red herrings. But my point would simply be that there are useful things some expensive calls will do that cheap ones won't, at least not nearly as well. Whether that tangible advantage, or intangibles such as confidence in the call or particularly enjoying running it, is worth the premium depends on the owner/operator in question.
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri May 30, 2014 11:46 am

Rick Hall wrote:
Frank Lopez wrote:
Rick Hall wrote: You're arguing with yourself. And wrong.


Really? You apparently have a very high regard for the cranial capabilities of a duck/goose. The fact is, they just aren't that bright. Variances in tone and volume have little bearing on the effectiveness of a call, if the call is used properly. A duck's voice is as individualistic as a human's. I'll say it a gain, it's all marketing. Those expensive calls cost "what the traffic will bear" because people are willing to buy them. And they are willing to buy them because they believe that those calls will get them more ducks. It's like an investor that buys a $5 million Stradivarious and suddenly thinks he's a concert violinist! And then there's the "front runner" factor. You know the guy. He has a new $2000 gun every year or two, the latest camo from Cabelas, the finest decoys money can buy and a string of calls that has a total worth in the thousands. His pickup is full camo and its rear window covered in decals and pro staff logos. In the mean time, the guy would be luck to score a 12 at a round of skeet, couldn't call a duck in a public park with a loaf of bread under each arm and doesn't have a clue as to how to set his blocks. In short, he's a marketer's dream.

The best waterfowlers I know shoot guns that are older than my children, and the only camo finish on them is the rusty patina of a salt marsh and worn off oil finish on the wood. Their decoys are either hand carved or old relics that are cobbled together to form some makeshift rig. Any resemblance to a real duck is purely coincidental. Their camo pattern is an old, beat up barn jacket. They have two calls, one for ducks and one for geese, each of them 40 years old or better. But, Lord, they know how to use them. They can make their rig come alive with the sound of half a dozen hen mallards out of a single call. They know how to set their decoys, and they know where to be as the conditions dicatate.

Contrary to what the marketing men would have you believe, waterfowling is a craft. A craft that has to be learned and practiced. It cannot be bought at any price.

Frank


Dang, that was a boatload of red herrings. But my point would simply be that there are useful things some expensive calls will do that cheap ones won't, at least not nearly as well. Whether that tangible advantage, or intangibles such as confidence in the call or particularly enjoying running it, is worth the premium depends on the owner/operator in question.


You, sir, are a marketing manager's dream!

Frank
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby Rick Hall » Fri May 30, 2014 11:58 am

Frank Lopez wrote:
You, sir, are a marketing manager's dream!

Frank


And you seem much too full of Frank to learn anything new.

Me, I've only been able to hunt waterfowl daily during their seasons since '84,though certainly more than most for the decade prior, and those pea brained birds are still teaching me new things about tolling them - when I've the sense to step out of my well worn ruts and experiment.
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri May 30, 2014 1:35 pm

Rick Hall wrote:
Frank Lopez wrote:
You, sir, are a marketing manager's dream!

Frank


And you seem much too full of Frank to learn anything new.

Me, I've only been able to hunt waterfowl daily during their seasons since '84,though certainly more than most for the decade prior, and those pea brained birds are still teaching me new things about tolling them - when I've the sense to step out of my well worn ruts and experiment.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :hi:
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby clampdaddy » Fri May 30, 2014 8:13 pm

Frank Lopez wrote: ....Lastly, those $120 and up calls cost that much simply because a lot of people think that expensive is better and therefore an advantage. They just don't understand that you can't buy hunting success.

Frank


That's kind of a gross generalization. Do you feel that way about guys that choose to spend the extra scratch to buy a Wingmaster instead of an Express? Just food for thought, how many molded plastic quackhead j frames do you think RnT can crank out in the time it takes to lathe, cut, polish, engrave, band and tune 100 acrylic Originals?
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby cluckmeister » Fri May 30, 2014 8:21 pm

Just call me old and set in my ways, but I kill all the ducks I want using an Olt 66 and a whistle. Those high dollar calls are pretty sharp looking but in my opinion, its the caller not the call that makes a deference when it comes to killing ducks. If you 120 dollar call guys likem , buym. But don't call my Olt cheap LOL
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby Rick Hall » Sat May 31, 2014 5:55 am

cluckmeister wrote:Just call me old and set in my ways, but I kill all the ducks I want using an Olt 66 and a whistle. Those high dollar calls are pretty sharp looking but in my opinion, its the caller not the call that makes a deference when it comes to killing ducks. If you 120 dollar call guys likem , buym. But don't call my Olt cheap LOL


Sure, you're old and set in your ways.

And if you really can kill all the ducks you want with an Olt 66 and a whistle, or any combination of calls you're plainly blessed with less want or far greater opportunity than most enjoy.

Then, too, no one will ever argue that the caller's ability isn't more important than his tools' (unless, of course, they're total crap). Given a pretty low threshold of tonal realism, timing and cadence generally trump tone. Still, those who've payed attention know some tones can plainly afford greater leverage than others, and which tones those are can change from situation to situation and even while working the same bird. That's where the most versatile, and in my experience more expensive, calls earn their premium from me.

It's my job to help put 18-24 hard-pressed PhD toting (that's for you, Frank) ducks on the strap by 9:30 every open season morning, and the more calling options I have, the better our chances of managing that. And the better the call in hand suits my physiology, methodology and current tone preferences, the more I'm going to enjoy the process.

Sort of like a good carpenter who could do a passable job with whatever hammer you hand him but probably pays what most of us would consider a premium to use a hammer that better suits him and the job at hand.
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby cluckmeister » Sat May 31, 2014 9:55 am

timing and cadence generally trump tone. Knowing when to call and when to not call. Those 16 words some it all up and it doesn't matter whether its a 40 dollar call or a 150 dollar call. If a fellow thinks that 150 call puts more birds on his strap thats great , , . . I may be old and set in my ways but Im also wise enough to know when new products come out to give them a try. Ive tried several high dollar calls and felt they were ok but not worth spending the bucks on. Id rather buy better decoys or more decoys with the money. A ducks eye sight is better that his hearing and chances are hes seeing your decoys long before he hears either a 40 dollar call or a 150 dollar call.
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby MNGunner » Sat May 31, 2014 11:01 am

Frank Lopez wrote:
Rick Hall wrote: You're arguing with yourself. And wrong.


The best waterfowlers I know shoot guns that are older than my children, and the only camo finish on them is the rusty patina of a salt marsh and worn off oil finish on the wood. Their decoys are either hand carved or old relics that are cobbled together to form some makeshift rig. Any resemblance to a real duck is purely coincidental. Their camo pattern is an old, beat up barn jacket. They have two calls, one for ducks and one for geese, each of them 40 years old or better. But, Lord, they know how to use them. They can make their rig come alive with the sound of half a dozen hen mallards out of a single call. They know how to set their decoys, and they know where to be as the conditions dicatate.
Frank


So that's who live in all those dilapidated cabins in every Terry Redlin painting! :lol3:
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby clampdaddy » Sat May 31, 2014 12:51 pm

MNGunner wrote:
Frank Lopez wrote:
Rick Hall wrote: You're arguing with yourself. And wrong.


The best waterfowlers I know shoot guns that are older than my children, and the only camo finish on them is the rusty patina of a salt marsh and worn off oil finish on the wood. Their decoys are either hand carved or old relics that are cobbled together to form some makeshift rig. Any resemblance to a real duck is purely coincidental. Their camo pattern is an old, beat up barn jacket. They have two calls, one for ducks and one for geese, each of them 40 years old or better. But, Lord, they know how to use them. They can make their rig come alive with the sound of half a dozen hen mallards out of a single call. They know how to set their decoys, and they know where to be as the conditions dicatate.
Frank


So that's who live in all those dilapidated cabins in every Terry Redlin painting! :lol3:


Duh. The new fancy cabins with running water and electricity are for posers who don't know how to hunt ducks. :lol3:
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby Rick Hall » Sat May 31, 2014 5:56 pm

cluckmeister wrote:.A ducks eye sight is better that his hearing and chances are hes seeing your decoys long before he hears either a 40 dollar call or a 150 dollar call.


If that's so, it doesn't seem to keep an awful lot of them from blowing on by even huge spreads until a good call in good hands turns them.
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Re: Expensive vs. cheap!

Postby cluckmeister » Sat May 31, 2014 8:02 pm

Rick Hall wrote:
cluckmeister wrote:.A ducks eye sight is better that his hearing and chances are hes seeing your decoys long before he hears either a 40 dollar call or a 150 dollar call.


If that's so, it doesn't seem to keep an awful lot of them from blowing on by even huge spreads until a good call in good hands turns them.


Id say its more like those huge spreads aren't set up where the ducks want to land more than the calling. A bird's eyesight is its most critical sense and the one it relies on the most. It doesn't matter how many dekes you have or how priced the call or even how good the caller is, with in reason of course. Ducks land in the most unpredictable places and land where and when they want to. You may have the best decoys, the best call and be a great duck caller and have the best open area on the marsh and they will pass you by and land 150 yards away in a puddle that's 10 yards by 10 yards. Why ? Simple answer because theyre ducks. Heck geese are even worse.LOL
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: Central Kansas

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