870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

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870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby Colby88 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:27 pm

Sorry to drag up a question that has likely been asked many times, but I have not been able to find a good answer anywhere.

Will the finish/quality on an 870 wingmaster last longer/hold up better in salty conditions than an express? I bout an express and it is two years old now. I live in Humboldt co. Nor CA and all the hunting I do is either in saltwater or brackish water. Even if I am hunting on a freshwater pond the air is pretty much a salt fog. When I first got the express and took it out into the filed it had rust on the receiver within hours. I have done my absolute best to keep it clean, but it has rusted like crazy. I have painted the exterior, which has helped. However even in the receiver where the barrel sits there is some rust/pitting. Also, rust has started to take hold in the chamber and the magazine, even in the trigger assembly. The gun gets taken down completely after every hunt and thoroughly cleaned. Of course there have been a few times I did not get to it until 10-12 hours after I got home from the hunt, but it still seems ridiculous. Anyway, I know this is a common issue with the new 870's, but it still bums me out. Other than the rust issue the gun is great, it never fails me and has killed plenty of birds.

So the question, will an 870 wingmaster hold off rust better than my express?

Thanks.
2011-2012 Season
Mallard = 5
Gadwall = 3
Northern Pintail = 4
Northern Shoveler = 4
Green Winged Teal = 12 (1 banded)
American Wigeon = 4
Hooded Merganser = 1
Scaup = 1
Bufflehead = 1
Cackling Goose = 2
Aleutian Goose = 5
Snow Goose = 1
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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby semohunter » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:29 am

from my experience with my wingmaster, and my special purpose turkey 870...i loved the guns to death..but they both rusted like crazy. it was nearly impossible to stop it from happening..the special purpose comes out for turkey season thats it now, the wingmaster sits in the gun case...ended up just buying an sx3 for my duck and goose gun..
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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby waterfowlhunter » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:53 am

The express and special purpose 11-87's and 870's I had all rusted or at least developed a brown tint very quickly. Even though they were properly cleaned and oiled they still had issues. I have na 1187 Premier and it has not had any issues with rust at all. I also have a special purpose 1187 that is dipped and it too rusted quickly.
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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby Colby88 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:24 pm

Bummer. I am disappointed to hear that the Remington's rust so quickly. Other than rust my 870 is a workhorse.

Does anyone have experience with trying something like "Diamondkote" etc?
2011-2012 Season
Mallard = 5
Gadwall = 3
Northern Pintail = 4
Northern Shoveler = 4
Green Winged Teal = 12 (1 banded)
American Wigeon = 4
Hooded Merganser = 1
Scaup = 1
Bufflehead = 1
Cackling Goose = 2
Aleutian Goose = 5
Snow Goose = 1
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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby waterfowlhunter » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:20 pm

I done a few In guncote baked on finish and it stopped the rusting issue completely. Remington just has a poor finish on their express and special purpose guns.
"A free people ought to be armed" George Washington 1790

‘For those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.’ —Ben Franklin.”
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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby tripleb » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:57 pm

A relatively easy way to stave off the rusting problem is to get some Shooter's Choice Rust Prevent .... clean all the oils off your barrel, spray it down with a good coat .... let dry for about 1/2 hour then spray it down again. Rust Prevent has a waxy residue which seems to hold to the anti oxidant's into the pores of the finish pretty well. It's not a permanent rust proofing process, like the one mentioned above, but it's readily available at a good gun store.

You do have to retreat the surface as it will wear off with time and use.

If you can't find Rust Prevent ..... a slightly less effective "rust proofer" is Birchwood Casey's Barricade (formerly Sheath). It's thinner than Rust Prevent and will wipe off easier.

When a friend owned a gun store he did some non scientific studies on rusting guns. He found an oiled highly polished gun was often less inclined to rust than one which had a porous finish, like a Baikal MP153 or Remington 870 Express. He noticed that water seemed to evaporate off of a highly polished surface than it did a "rough" surface. He speculated that the rough finish allowed moisture to remain against the metal longer and made it more prone to oxidation. Just speculation, though.
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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby toolmaker » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:19 pm

I would say YES!!! and the reason is ...SURFACE area....the cheaper guns and sandblasted and blued or parkarized... microscopically the sand blasting raises the and dimples the smooth surface of the steel to allow more metal to be exposed to oxidation... in contrast the nicely blued guns are POLISHED super smooth and there is on a flat layer of steel......that flat layer will resist actual rsuting much longer than the sandblasted( or bead blasted surface)

I have found that out from work in the tool room...we have made tools for work hardened and ground them, the tools that are sand blasted after grinding rust 20 times faster than the tools that were ground on a surface grinder and not sand blasted afterwards. many engineers liked the look of the sand blasted surface...but boy did the tools gets ugly fast just from moisture in the air. Tools that were ground smooth seldom rusted, with the exception of a small spot here or there.

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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby Colby88 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:20 pm

tribleb, I have tried both of your suggested methods, and for my location neither has been useful at all. I think part of the problem may also be that where I live is typically 80-95% humidity year round, so the gun rusts just looking at it. Put it this way,I recently went to Utah to hunt the Great Salt Lake, and frankly I was amazed at how little rust my gin built up when hunting there compared to any given hunt in my area.

Thanks for all the input everyone.
2011-2012 Season
Mallard = 5
Gadwall = 3
Northern Pintail = 4
Northern Shoveler = 4
Green Winged Teal = 12 (1 banded)
American Wigeon = 4
Hooded Merganser = 1
Scaup = 1
Bufflehead = 1
Cackling Goose = 2
Aleutian Goose = 5
Snow Goose = 1
Colby88
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:44 pm

Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby Colby88 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:28 pm

toolmaker, that makes sense, thanks! At this point, I am pretty set on sending my gun into Birdsong to get the Black/Green T refinish. I have heard great things about it and it sounds like it is nearly indestructible and will suit my needs.

I know a lot of guys in my area that go through an 870 every season or every-other season, but I just can't bring myself to have that kind of attitude about my gun. It is the first shotgun I purchased for myself. I have spent lots of time with it, it has shot a lot of birds and always worked for me. Not to mention at this point it has a really smooth action, in fact some of my buds have wingmasters and they thought I was full of it when I told them how smooth the action on mine had become. When they gave my gun a try they were a little blown away. So I would hate to resign myself to giving up on my express.

That being said, I have strongly considered buying a new trigger assembly, one built for a wingmaster (so no plastic) and sending that in with my gun to get the black/green T finish.
2011-2012 Season
Mallard = 5
Gadwall = 3
Northern Pintail = 4
Northern Shoveler = 4
Green Winged Teal = 12 (1 banded)
American Wigeon = 4
Hooded Merganser = 1
Scaup = 1
Bufflehead = 1
Cackling Goose = 2
Aleutian Goose = 5
Snow Goose = 1
Colby88
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Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:44 pm

Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby Bay Bob » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:12 am

I hunt salt water almost exclusively and I have a stable of Remingtons and Baikals.

The highly polished Wingmasters and Premiers are slower to rust no doubt, but in the long run it is a shame to ruin such a nice finish. I could buy several Expresss with what I have spent on rebluing - - -

One of the problems with salt air is that wiping the gun down with an oily rag leaves salt residue behind.

You need to clean your guns with hot soapy water, and several hot rinses to get the salt residue off.

I then dry them with a heat gun and lube them as required.

For routine lube of the trigger group I use 1 part Mobil 1 to 10 parts Stoddard solvent or kerosene. Spray down the trigger group real good. Blow off the excess with compressed air or let it drain over night and just enough Mobil 1 remains on the pivot points to lube it effectively.

I clean the barrel and gas mechanism with a powder solvent like Hoppes after the soapy bath.

I also spray down the inside of the reciever with the Mobil 1 /solvent and blow or drain dry (ish).

Lube the action bars and bridge with spray white lithium grease.

Take a piece of terry cloth, soak it with the white lithium and wipe down all the parts, reassemble and lightly wipe it with a clean cloth.

Make sure the magazine tube and gas components (including the gas chamber on the barrel) are wiped very dry.

I have found nothing that stops rust like the white lithium grease and I regulary hunt the salt with Expresss and Baikals which have a similar finish.

My first Baikal is about 8 years old and the finish is still pretty good !
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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby BrentP » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:37 pm

I would reccomend a coating of Ezzox synthetic gun oil. It dries after being applied and will keep the rust away.
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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby cadburynj » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:18 am

I have owned a Wingmaster and Express. Wingmaster never rusted.

Bought the Express in 1991 as my "shooter" and it has been rusting since 1992. I came across the painting instructions on this site and decided now was the time.

Waited 20 years to 220 fine sand it down, clean it with a compressor, wiped it completely with paint thinner , taped it off , base prime it (3 coats rustoleum),
texture coat it (2 coats to get parkerized finish) and camo coat it( 2 coats krylon ).

My neighbor painted a fall foliage acrylic camo pattern and then I matte finished it With a clear coat.

If the gun action is solid and the gun shoots to POA I highly recommend this project to solve your issues.

Good luck

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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby BigGoonTuna » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:12 pm

I've had no problems with my wingmaster rusting, except for the fact that i didn't give it a thorough strip and scrub after the season 2 years ago. pulled it out of storage and the left hand side of the receiver was rusted up pretty bad. :sad:

i've reblued the pitted spot a few times but it wears off after a trip or two. aside from that i think the bluing holds up alright if you're religious about cleaning. of course, i mainly hunt salt marshes and it would probably be a smart idea to buy a cheap clunker for that.
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Re: 870 Express vs. Wingmaster in regards to rust

Postby gumby » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:32 am

My express did the same thing, quick easy solution, I covered all the exterior surfaces in minwax paste wax. problem solved
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