A New Pope

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Re: A New Pope

Postby SpinnerMan » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:10 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:I was referring to those who persevere and triumph while under the voluntary, or involuntary, subjugation of controllers whom I don't consider as benevolent.
Pretty much describes any systems that puts significant control over people's lives in the hands of politicians, does it not?Large bureucracies tend to worry about protecting their bureaucracy and not the core state mission. I see the same failings in the Catholic Church that I see in Chicago, the DNC, RNC, you name it. Circle the wagons, protect the organization. Too much power in too few hands.

The difference is one is purely voluntary and the other involves subjugation under the threat of force.

Yes it does, Spinner. So when you criticize Chicago, which I seem to remember you having done once or twice, are you castigating every citizen or the heirarchy in place?

Always the individual. The individuals are responsible for their actions.

It is simply a fact that when individuals are put in these situations, far too often, this is how they act.This is a very well known fact. I am castigating every individual that supports this type of system with such an obvious and so often demonstrated fatal flaw.

I commented because of your inconsistency. I think both do more harm than good. What I have heard from Pope Francis makes me worried that he is part of the problem of why there is so much poverty and dysfunction in Central and South America. I suspect he is another failed community organizer based on the big bureaucracy model. I fear that he supports the status quo poverty and not the minimization of it. Too much focus on feeling good about giving handout and not any focus on how to eliminate the need for handouts.
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Re: A New Pope

Postby slowshooter » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:32 am

So the new Pope sucks? Okay.
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Re: A New Pope

Postby blackduckdog2 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:13 pm

slowshooter wrote:So the new Pope sucks? Okay.

just sayin'

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Re: A New Pope

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:27 pm

slowshooter wrote:So the new Pope sucks?
Image Time will tell, but I'm not liking what I'm hearing.

Vastly too many Catholics do not appear to understand that welfare is destructive to society in general and the poor in particular and that results oriented charity is uplifting to all members of society.

Teach a man to fish and you feel good about yourself today, give a man a fish and you can feel good for your lifetime. Your control over him is just a bonus for the politicians when done via government.

Catholics by Country

Catholics by State

And just for you. Guess what religion, the Daley's that ran Chicago for generations were? :huh: Hint: the same as Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi. Coincidence? Not likely.

Small decentralized religion is just as important as small decentralized government and pretty much for the same reason. Human beings simply cannot be trusted with that much power. Catholics on average accept centralized control. They accept the idea of an authoritarian pope. Is it surprising that most believe the governance structure of society should mirror the governance structure of their religion?

There is much I like about the Catholic Church, but too much is not a good thing.

Like all good liberals claim they desire, I wish they would practice separation of church and state. No state run charity, that is a church issue :thumbsup:
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Re: A New Pope

Postby blackduckdog2 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:42 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:And just for you. Guess what religion, the Daley's that ran Chicago for generations were? :huh: Hint: the same as Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi.


ummm.............the same one as Rick Santorum and Marco Rubio?
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Re: A New Pope

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:10 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:And just for you. Guess what religion, the Daley's that ran Chicago for generations were? :huh: Hint: the same as Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi.


ummm.............the same one as Rick Santorum and Marco Rubio?

There are always exception. Not a Santorum fan and don't know enough about Rubio to have an opinion. He was just a big improvement over Crist mainly because he undermined the Republican establishment. Beyond that I don't have a strong opinion yet.

Individual Catholics are of course all over the map. On average, well sadly Daley, Kennedy, Pelosi are not out of line with Catholic voters. Santorum and Rubio probably are.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/PA/S/01/epolls.0.html
Santorum lost the Catholic vote 59 to 41 in the last Senate race.

I couldn't find the results for Rubio.

However, for Kennedy in 2006, he won the Catholic vote by 69 to 30.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/MA/S/01/epolls.0.html

I heard that Pope Francis fought for welfare in Argentina. All welfare does in practice is create a permanent dependent lower class. No welfare and generational poverty is greatly reduced. Strong welfare and you have a static society where the have's keep their status as the have's and the have-not's remain as have-not's and on the vast majority are forced to live at a lower standard of living then they should have to. You like to talk about your Mormon life experience. Most of my Dad's side of the family is Catholic. I went to my first mass long before I can remember.

It doesn't matter whether you are a politician, religious leader, business tycoon, etc., if you have the power, a dynamic society is the last thing that you want. You want the status quo to stay.

Like I said, there are many things I like about the Catholic Church, but there are many things that I do not as well. When they mix their religious zeal for helping the poor with their politics, it is just as bad as when they do the same for birth control or anything else.
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Re: A New Pope

Postby vincentpa » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:48 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:" For those whom the religion provides comfort, I am happy for them. Much akin to the happiness I feel for those who have achieved a state in grace in our prison system. In other words, while the system may be incorrigible, there are those who persevere and triumph and I congratulate, rather than condemn, them."


And... ?

Sure an' ye took the word right outta me mouth, boyo.......


Oh boyo. You give GJ far too much credit. Try writing it in all caps next time but, It still won't support your interpretation, boyo. The good folks that find grace in our incorrigible prison institutions are indeed criminals. Comparing the Catholic Church to an incorrigible prison system is as reprehensible as comparing Catholics to prisoners. Words have meaning, no matter how much back tracking GJ does or how much apologizing you do. See my explanations as to why in my other posts. You really have a lot against any organized religion. The church of lds must've really had a terrible impact on you. Maybe it's time you brushed off your magic panties and put them back on.
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Re: A New Pope

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:00 am

vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:" For those whom the religion provides comfort, I am happy for them. Much akin to the happiness I feel for those who have achieved a state in grace in our prison system. In other words, while the system may be incorrigible, there are those who persevere and triumph and I congratulate, rather than condemn, them."


And... ?

Sure an' ye took the word right outta me mouth, boyo.......


Oh boyo. You give GJ far too much credit. Try writing it in all caps next time but, It still won't support your interpretation, boyo. The good folks that find grace in our incorrigible prison institutions are indeed criminals. Comparing the Catholic Church to an incorrigible prison system is as reprehensible as comparing Catholics to prisoners. Words have meaning, no matter how much back tracking GJ does or how much apologizing you do. See my explanations as to why in my other posts. You really have a lot against any organized religion. The church of lds must've really had a terrible impact on you. Maybe it's time you brushed off your magic panties and put them back on.

Nasty chip you got on your shoulder there, bambino. Hey, I tell you what..........when I find those magic undies I'll send 'em right over. I bet they'll be real cute under one of your pretty little altar boy dresses. Cheer you right up!
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Re: A New Pope

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:16 am

blackduckdog2 wrote: I bet they'll be real cute under one of your pretty little altar boy dresses.
Why? You have a thing for little boy's in dresses? :eek:

If Vince were only cool, like this guy. He could pull off a dress.
Image
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Re: A New Pope

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:39 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote: I bet they'll be real cute under one of your pretty little altar boy dresses.
Why? You have a thing for little boy's in dresses? :eek:

If Vince were only cool, like this guy. He could pull off a dress.
Image

Did my comment offend you? Why weren't you offended by VP's offensive "magic panties" offensive? I'm offended you didn't defend me first
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Re: A New Pope

Postby Glimmerjim » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:11 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote: I bet they'll be real cute under one of your pretty little altar boy dresses.
Why? You have a thing for little boy's in dresses? :eek:

If Vince were only cool, like this guy. He could pull off a dress.
Image

Did my comment offend you? Why weren't you offended by VP's offensive "magic panties" offensive? I'm offended you didn't defend me first

He was busy pointing out my inconsistency. :lol3:
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Re: A New Pope

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:06 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote: I bet they'll be real cute under one of your pretty little altar boy dresses.
Why? You have a thing for little boy's in dresses? :eek:

If Vince were only cool, like this guy. He could pull off a dress.
Image

Did my comment offend you? Why weren't you offended by VP's offensive "magic panties" offensive? I'm offended you didn't defend me first

Did VP say he thought you would looked cute in your magic underpants? :huh:

Your the one that equated boy's dresses (not the pastor's, but the children :huh: ), magic underpants and cute. :hi:

I was just wondering why? I'd say "not that there's anything wrong with that," but the boy's thing is just a little too weird. You might want to seek help for that. Certainly don't join the priesthood if that is your thing, they already have too much trouble with that. :eek:

I know you are cool enough to pull of a dress like the big guy. Vince, I'm not sure. Me :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :no: :no: :no:
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Re: A New Pope

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:11 am

Thanks for clarifying..........for a moment there I thought perhaps you'd let politics sway your otherwise ordinarily exquisite sense of decorum
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Re: A New Pope

Postby vincentpa » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:34 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:" For those whom the religion provides comfort, I am happy for them. Much akin to the happiness I feel for those who have achieved a state in grace in our prison system. In other words, while the system may be incorrigible, there are those who persevere and triumph and I congratulate, rather than condemn, them."


And... ?

Sure an' ye took the word right outta me mouth, boyo.......


Oh boyo. You give GJ far too much credit. Try writing it in all caps next time but, It still won't support your interpretation, boyo. The good folks that find grace in our incorrigible prison institutions are indeed criminals. Comparing the Catholic Church to an incorrigible prison system is as reprehensible as comparing Catholics to prisoners. Words have meaning, no matter how much back tracking GJ does or how much apologizing you do. See my explanations as to why in my other posts. You really have a lot against any organized religion. The church of lds must've really had a terrible impact on you. Maybe it's time you brushed off your magic panties and put them back on.

Nasty chip you got on your shoulder there, bambino. Hey, I tell you what..........when I find those magic undies I'll send 'em right over. I bet they'll be real cute under one of your pretty little altar boy dresses. Cheer you right up!


No chip on my shoulder boyo. Just short typing on the iPad, which I deplore (typing on it, not the iPad itself). I just like jabbing you about your problems with the LDS. Your personal experiences with the LDS seems to affect how you view all religions. BTW, I would look amazing in those garbs if they were in style. I would make a bad priest. Not only am I not religious but, I am much too swayed by the opposite sex. There would be many sex scandals if I wore the cloth to be sure, only with hot ladies willing to give it up for God!
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Re: A New Pope

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:46 am

vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:" For those whom the religion provides comfort, I am happy for them. Much akin to the happiness I feel for those who have achieved a state in grace in our prison system. In other words, while the system may be incorrigible, there are those who persevere and triumph and I congratulate, rather than condemn, them."


And... ?

Sure an' ye took the word right outta me mouth, boyo.......


Oh boyo. You give GJ far too much credit. Try writing it in all caps next time but, It still won't support your interpretation, boyo. The good folks that find grace in our incorrigible prison institutions are indeed criminals. Comparing the Catholic Church to an incorrigible prison system is as reprehensible as comparing Catholics to prisoners. Words have meaning, no matter how much back tracking GJ does or how much apologizing you do. See my explanations as to why in my other posts. You really have a lot against any organized religion. The church of lds must've really had a terrible impact on you. Maybe it's time you brushed off your magic panties and put them back on.

Nasty chip you got on your shoulder there, bambino. Hey, I tell you what..........when I find those magic undies I'll send 'em right over. I bet they'll be real cute under one of your pretty little altar boy dresses. Cheer you right up!


No chip on my shoulder boyo. Just short typing on the iPad, which I deplore (typing on it, not the iPad itself). I just like jabbing you about your problems with the LDS. Your personal experiences with the LDS seems to affect how you view all religions. BTW, I would look amazing in those garbs if they were in style. I would make a bad priest. Not only am I not religious but, I am much too swayed by the opposite sex. There would be many sex scandals if I wore the cloth to be sure, only with hot ladies willing to give it up for God!

My LDS experience certainly affected me in ways too exhausting to even contemplate anymore, but a poisoned sense of the Catholic Church was most definitely not one of them. I very nearly converted a decade ago
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Re: A New Pope

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:04 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:My LDS experience certainly affected me in ways too exhausting to even contemplate anymore, but a poisoned sense of the Catholic Church was most definitely not one of them. I very nearly converted a decade ago
Would it surprise me that you were attracted to the Catholic Church? :huh:
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Re: A New Pope

Postby Me and Black Betty » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:00 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:My LDS experience certainly affected me in ways too exhausting to even contemplate anymore, but a poisoned sense of the Catholic Church was most definitely not one of them. I very nearly converted a decade ago
Would it surprise me that you were attracted to the Catholic Church? :huh:

He would have converted, but they wouldn't let him wear the alter boy dress. :hi:
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Re: A New Pope

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:56 pm

Me and Black Betty wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:My LDS experience certainly affected me in ways too exhausting to even contemplate anymore, but a poisoned sense of the Catholic Church was most definitely not one of them. I very nearly converted a decade ago
Would it surprise me that you were attracted to the Catholic Church? :huh:

He would have converted, but they wouldn't let him wear the alter boy dress. :hi:

What was up with that, anyhow?
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Re: A New Pope

Postby vincentpa » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:07 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
Me and Black Betty wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:My LDS experience certainly affected me in ways too exhausting to even contemplate anymore, but a poisoned sense of the Catholic Church was most definitely not one of them. I very nearly converted a decade ago
Would it surprise me that you were attracted to the Catholic Church? :huh:

He would have converted, but they wouldn't let him wear the alter boy dress. :hi:

What was up with that, anyhow?


There are now alter girls. The vestments are wierd nowadays but strangely, it's the tradition I like about the church more than anything except community.
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Re: A New Pope

Postby cartervj » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:49 pm

nice summary


Many millions of Catholics around the world were joyous with the naming of a new pope – a holy man from the Third World, no less. Even in choosing his name, Pope Francis is emphasizing a devotion to the poor, and a humility in his clothing and manners.

The liberal media should be lapping this up. There was an accurate recounting of the global rejoicing, especially in Argentina. There were hopeful words about his pastoral modesty. But as the day came for the Pope to be installed, the natural secular liberal nastiness toward the oldest Christian faith bubbled up in demands for “tolerance” and women’s liberation.

On the March 18 “Today,” co-host Matt Lauer noted the simplicity of Pope Francis -- and then tried to suggest it was extreme. “So a lot of people like this move to simplicity, a move to the poor. Is it possible to take it too far?” If Benedict enjoyed revisiting the more regal historic Vatican garb, that was extreme. More humility? Also quite possibly extreme.

This is the kind of general hostility to religion that makes people turn the channel. The networks try to restrain themselves when the ever-necessary eyeballs are flocking to the TV set to see the Vatican news. But seemingly they can't hold out forever. Ultimately they revert to sounding like jerks.

All three of NBC’s regular “Today’s Professionals” panelists agreed. Advertising man Donny Deutsch insisted this was a victory of style over substance. “It's great to do all of this style stuff, man of the people. But, and we've talked about this ad nauseam, until the Catholic Church starts to address what we all know are the real issues the Church has, which is the real concern of the people, this stuff doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.”

Liberals demand that the Catholic Church bow to their infallible instincts. You can’t just dress humbly, preach the gospel, and serve the poor. You have to grant indulgences to the feminists, the homosexuals, and the contraceptive industry.

NBC medical correspondent Dr. Nancy Snyderman lectured the new pope that “poverty without birth control begets more poverty....this is a chance to take the humility and the poverty and say now we're really going to talk about this in a civilized way and move it forward.” Deutsch added: “And we can talk about tolerance with gays and attitudes towards women.” Snyderman threw in “And women in the Church.”

If only the Vatican had thought of that.

Is there anything funnier than a couple of pompous NBC millionaires lecturing the pope about poverty and humility?



Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-boze ... z2O2of6HSi
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Re: A New Pope

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:57 am

cartervj wrote:nice summary


Many millions of Catholics around the world were joyous with the naming of a new pope – a holy man from the Third World, no less. Even in choosing his name, Pope Francis is emphasizing a devotion to the poor, and a humility in his clothing and manners.

The liberal media should be lapping this up. There was an accurate recounting of the global rejoicing, especially in Argentina. There were hopeful words about his pastoral modesty. But as the day came for the Pope to be installed, the natural secular liberal nastiness toward the oldest Christian faith bubbled up in demands for “tolerance” and women’s liberation.

On the March 18 “Today,” co-host Matt Lauer noted the simplicity of Pope Francis -- and then tried to suggest it was extreme. “So a lot of people like this move to simplicity, a move to the poor. Is it possible to take it too far?” If Benedict enjoyed revisiting the more regal historic Vatican garb, that was extreme. More humility? Also quite possibly extreme.

This is the kind of general hostility to religion that makes people turn the channel. The networks try to restrain themselves when the ever-necessary eyeballs are flocking to the TV set to see the Vatican news. But seemingly they can't hold out forever. Ultimately they revert to sounding like jerks.

All three of NBC’s regular “Today’s Professionals” panelists agreed. Advertising man Donny Deutsch insisted this was a victory of style over substance. “It's great to do all of this style stuff, man of the people. But, and we've talked about this ad nauseam, until the Catholic Church starts to address what we all know are the real issues the Church has, which is the real concern of the people, this stuff doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.”

Liberals demand that the Catholic Church bow to their infallible instincts. You can’t just dress humbly, preach the gospel, and serve the poor. You have to grant indulgences to the feminists, the homosexuals, and the contraceptive industry.

NBC medical correspondent Dr. Nancy Snyderman lectured the new pope that “poverty without birth control begets more poverty....this is a chance to take the humility and the poverty and say now we're really going to talk about this in a civilized way and move it forward.” Deutsch added: “And we can talk about tolerance with gays and attitudes towards women.” Snyderman threw in “And women in the Church.”

If only the Vatican had thought of that.

Is there anything funnier than a couple of pompous NBC millionaires lecturing the pope about poverty and humility?



Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-boze ... z2O2of6HSi

Are they really trying to say that the reason so many people disagree with the Catholic Church's position on birth control is that they're all somehow in cahoots with the contraceptive industry? Because that is seriously wacko
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Re: A New Pope

Postby Glimmerjim » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:09 am

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Re: A New Pope

Postby Glimmerjim » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:27 am

vincentpa wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:I have nothing against Catholics on a personal basis.

But you do or else you wouldn't have made the comments in this thread that you have made.

Glimmerjim wrote:If a certain belief system gives one comfort, at no expense to others, and is at best not a negative influence in its community, I have no problem with those who derive comfort from it.


Glimmerjim wrote:In my personal experience, I have found adherents to any particular organized religion as hypocritical, disingenuous, and for the most part in need of a system that will grant them relief from the moral consequences of their actions.


Your personal experiences must be shaped by the people with whom you choose to associate. It is obvious you chose those who dwell in gutter. As such, your view of religious persons it tainted by the filth.

Your generalizations about Catholics and the Catholic Church are hypocritical as AT pointed out to you earlier. They are also extremely ignorant. I know this has never brought you shame before, now nor will it in the future but it should. Now your weak attempt to broaden your argument to all religions is blatantly transparent in your fantastical hope that we have forgotten your posts in prior threads castigating us for criticizing or making generalizations about Islam. It seems you have your own prejudices, which are truly based on ignorance.

Glimmerjim wrote:The only people I have found that even come close to what I interpret as the concept of Christianity are involved in small, non-denominational groups that are basically a study group of the Christian Bible. The larger a group becomes, the more "earthly", rather than spiritual, material influences affect the tenets, prohibitions, and mindsets. Catholicism is this concept on steroids. For those whom the religion provides comfort, I am happy for them. Much akin to the happiness I feel for those who have achieved a state in grace in our prison system. In other words, while the system may be incorrigible, there are those who persevere and triumph and I congratulate, rather than condemn, them.

So now you compare Catholics to criminals. Your ignorance and offensiveness never ceases. I don't know what is worse; your casual ignorance, your broad generalizations or your hypocrisy. You remind me of a woman I know. You are emotional. You have lots of opinions. Your opinions in general are based on ignorance. You have diarrhea of the mouth (fingers in this case). You have a casual knowledge about something. You develop an opinion on this limited knowledge. Then you spout off as if your opinion is meaningful and should be regarded. What you really don't understand is how others with more than casual knowledge look at people like you with utter contempt.

Catholics in general are among the most charitable people on the planet. Catholics believe they mustput their beliefs into practice through works. They give of themselves in a multitude of ways. They donate their money, time and effort to helping the needy inside and outside of their communities. They serve their church and community through volunteer work driven by their faith. If you took even the slightest interest and made the most limited effort you couldn't discovered this before you chimed in. You wouldn't know these things because you are lazy and ill-informed comfortable in your ignorance and too lazy to challenge yourself intellectually. Yet you can judge from afar about something of which you know very little.

The Catholic Church is a huge organization consisting of multiple forms of clergy, religious orders and laity. The hierarchy is but a fraction of this massive church, less than 99.9999% of the church is the hierarchy and even less have had anything to do with any improprieties. The remainder is dedicated clergy, religious orders and laity that serve through devotion to their faith. The clergy lead the faithful by example of self-sacrifice and faith and through a myriad of other ways including counseling, prayer, events and charity. The religious orders dedicate themselves to their faith through works and self-sacrifice. The laity show their devotion through charity to both the church and community. The Church itself administers schools and hospitals where the not so fortunate can get discounted education and discounted healthcare. The Church operates soup kitchens and multitudes of other forms of charities. This means nothing to you.

But to you, these people are all hypocrites because you knew a few that may or may not have been best examples of their faith. You have judged them based on your own perceived values, no matter how distorted they may be. You have judged them based on maybe one incident that you extend to all labeling them hypocrites. You expect perfection, which is impossible. Imperfection does not make one any less faithful nor does it make one hypocritical. The fallibilities or the failures of one person do not negate the message of the faith nor does it reflect negatively on the whole. You need this to make your argument. Without it, your argument crumbles on the ignorant foundation on which it was built.

Let's just get right to the gist of this, VP. You are saying that less Catholics were involved with improprieties than Ivory Soap is pure? I find that hard to imagine. I mean c'mon. It floats! You're going to have to show me references that support this absurd allegation.
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Re: A New Pope

Postby assateague » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:22 am

There are approximately 1.2 Billion Catholics in the world. 0.001% of that is around 12,000. How many priests do YOU think were involved? 12,000 is a far higher number than any I've heard.
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Re: A New Pope

Postby vincentpa » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:26 am

Boom! GJ never misses an opportunity to demonstrate he is a moron.

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