Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby Glimmerjim » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:52 pm

assateague wrote:It has little, if anything, to do with being an expert. I'm no expert on the universe. But I know the sun is s star. Just as I know that atheists do not acknowledge any higher power. God, Gaia, Allah, whatever- doesn't happen.

This is just Wiki, AT. We can go a lot deeper into atheism and agnosticism if you want....
"Some of the ambiguity and controversy involved in defining atheism arises from difficulty in reaching a consensus for the definitions of words like deity and God. The plurality of wildly different conceptions of God and deities leads to differing ideas regarding atheism's applicability. The ancient Romans accused Christians of being atheists for not worshiping the pagan deities. Gradually, this view fell into disfavor as theism came to be understood as encompassing belief in any divinity.

With respect to the range of phenomena being rejected, atheism may counter anything from the existence of a deity, to the existence of any spiritual, supernatural, or transcendental concepts, such as those of Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and Taoism"
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby assateague » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:01 pm

How about this one. Seems they might know a thing or two about what atheism is:

Atheism may be defined as the mental attitude which unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

http://atheists.org

Or this:

Atheism is the absence of belief in gods. An atheist, therefore, is simply someone who does not believe in gods.

http://bostonatheists.org/what-is-atheism/index.htm

Or this:

An atheist is a someone that does not believe in God (or gods)

http://www.askanatheist.org/atheism.html


So perhaps you should take up the "no, they don't believe in a higher power" discussion up with them. I'd say they know more about it than me, but it certainly appears as if they agree with my "No" statement.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby Glimmerjim » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:16 pm

assateague wrote:How about this one. Seems they might know a thing or two about what atheism is:

Atheism may be defined as the mental attitude which unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

http://atheists.org

Or this:

Atheism is the absence of belief in gods. An atheist, therefore, is simply someone who does not believe in gods.

http://bostonatheists.org/what-is-atheism/index.htm

Or this:

An atheist is a someone that does not believe in God (or gods)

http://www.askanatheist.org/atheism.html


So perhaps you should take up the "no, they don't believe in a higher power" discussion up with them. I'd say they know more about it than me, but it certainly appears as if they agree with my "No" statement.

Perhaps to finish it off we should get the definition of "God", and see if it is universally accepted.
Not that this is my personal philosophy, but just to help me understand.....might an "atheist", not believing in a Creationist, omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-knowing "God", accept the posssibly that there is a more rational and enlightened state of existence than that which we currently find ourselves? Could this state of enlightenment be referred to as man becoming a "Higher Power"? So the concept of believing in the possible advancement of mankind into that which we would consider as a "Higher Power", or to put it another way, believing that mankind may one day reach a state of higher consciousness regarding the realities of creation and potential, would still not include one in a group believing in a flowing haired Creator, but would still allow one to consider himself as an atheist?
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby assateague » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:59 pm

No. Not unless somehow that "higher power" is verifiable through scientific experiment. Their definition, not mine.


And Spinner's post, and the charts referred to "a higher power", most certainly not "man being enlightened through reason and scientific experiment". That's just silly. So according to the atheists own definitions, the scientists in the polls spinner posted are most assuredly NOT atheists.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby Glimmerjim » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:26 pm

assateague wrote:No. Not unless somehow that "higher power" is verifiable through scientific experiment. Their definition, not mine.


And Spinner's post, and the charts referred to "a higher power", most certainly not "man being enlightened through reason and scientific experiment". That's just silly. So according to the atheists own definitions, the scientists in the polls spinner posted are most assuredly NOT atheists.

That's true. When asked to categorize one's self in one of three categories, the atheists did just that. My original point, however, is that the atheists do outnumber the "God" believers in all but one demographic. One who does not consider one's self as a "God" believer I would not categorize as "religious", either. Hence my point. Not the best table to tout the majority of "God" believers. I guess I was throwing a little bit of my personal philosophy in regarding atheism and agnosticism.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby slowshooter » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:43 pm

I have a buddy that doesn't believe in gods. But considers himself religious.
Another that is an atheist but believes in a supreme being. I asked about that and he said "The supreme being is just another guy with a lot of power. That doesn't make him better or a God."

What do you call a person that doesn't believe that there is evidence that God exists - or evidence that God doesn't. Because that's me.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby assateague » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:47 pm

While I may agree that they don't believe in God, I would hardly call someone who believes in "a higher power" non-religious. Just as you have chosen to interpret what "atheist" means, I opt to believe that someone who believes in a higher power is most certainly religious. Are druids, Vikings, Native Americans, pagans, buddhists, hindu, zoroastrians, animists, taoists, or Sikhs not religious because they don't believe in God? I understand that by limiting it to "God", it looks better for the "scientists are atheists" argument, but a belief in a higher power excludes someone from being an atheist, any way you slice it. So, in fact, there are more believers among scientists than atheists.


I see no way that this can be debated. Atheists (based on their own definition) are outnumbered in every category listed.
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And in all groups the atheist view is the minority
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby Glimmerjim » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:55 pm

slowshooter wrote:I have a buddy that doesn't believe in gods. But considers himself religious.
Another that is an atheist but believes in a supreme being. I asked about that and he said "The supreme being is just another guy with a lot of power. That doesn't make him better or a God."

What do you call a person that doesn't believe that there is evidence that God exists - or evidence that God doesn't. Because that's me.
:hammer:

Read up on Agnosticism, Slow. There are a few different types! :thumbsup:
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby slowshooter » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:13 pm

Readin'! What the heck is that but some plot to give people critical thinking skills... At which point they will give the establishment sass and take on airs. Keep 'em dumb and keep them down I say!

Thanks,
The Texas School Board.

:lol3:
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby Glimmerjim » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:34 pm

slowshooter wrote:Readin'! What the heck is that but some plot to give people critical thinking skills... At which point they will give the establishment sass and take on airs. Keep 'em dumb and keep them down I say!

Thanks,
The Texas School Board.

:lol3:

"Texas School" Is that what they call an oxymoron? :lol3:
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby assateague » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:35 pm

Sort of like "tolerant liberal".
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby assateague » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:37 pm

Al Gore, Sr. and Robert Byrd wrote:Readin'! What the heck is that but some plot to give colored people critical thinking skills... At which point they will give the establishment sass and take on airs. Keep 'em dumb and keep them down I say!

Thanks,
The Democrats.

:lol3:



FIFY
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby Glimmerjim » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:38 pm

assateague wrote:Sort of like "tolerant liberal".

"intelligent conservative"?
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby SpinnerMan » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:34 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote: Does an atheist believe in a a higher power? This is the simplest of yes and no questions.

Okay. I'll answer it for you. It depends upon the definition of "atheist" and the definition of "higher power". The problem in our communication is in life, things are simple only to simple people. All things. Every thing. But to you it's simple. Case in point.

So if we can't even define an atheist as someone that doesn't believe in a higher power, how the hell are we going to define a scientist and get a representative cross section in a poll? :huh:

Tell someone what they want to hear and they will believe it. Tell them what they don't want, and then they will find excuses like atheists believe in a higher power :rolleyes:

Be skeptical of everything :thumbsup:

Now, like most groups, there are a lot of self-described atheists that are nonsensical idiots. I think that is a hard argument to make even with whatever group they polled in this case.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby vincentpa » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:30 am

Slow, have they ever made a poll of which direction engineers lean? I wonder why, :huh:

I would say 85-90% engineers are conservative, even gubment ones.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:32 am

vincentpa wrote:Slow, have they ever made a poll of which direction engineers lean? I wonder why, :huh:

I would say 85-90% engineers are conservative, even gubment ones.

You can tell the conservative ones by their pocket protectors! :lol3:
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby SpinnerMan » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:12 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
vincentpa wrote:Slow, have they ever made a poll of which direction engineers lean? I wonder why, :huh:

I would say 85-90% engineers are conservative, even gubment ones.

You can tell the conservative ones by their pocket protectors! :lol3:

I don't think I have ever seen anyone wear a pocket protector. Grandpa, it's the 21st century, they went out before the 8 track, another thing I don't believe I have ever seen used.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby vincentpa » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:31 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
vincentpa wrote:Slow, have they ever made a poll of which direction engineers lean? I wonder why, :huh:

I would say 85-90% engineers are conservative, even gubment ones.

You can tell the conservative ones by their pocket protectors! :lol3:

I don't think I have ever seen anyone wear a pocket protector. Grandpa, it's the 21st century, they went out before the 8 track, another thing I don't believe I have ever seen used.



I used to wear one while checking drawings before modern copiers and 11x17 size made printing easier.. I'd have a red marker, green marker and yellow highlighter open moving between drawings and desks. It was the only way to not mark a shirt.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:40 pm

I suspect that was a while ago, but probably well after the demise of the 8 track. We used an 11x17 printer routinely in our little office in '97. They were definitely a big enhancement to efficiency. It's seem like that doubling of size crosses some informational threshold that allows you to get far more than double the information on a single page.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby vincentpa » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:44 pm

To answer slow's post fundamentally, the only thing that poll demonstrates is human hubris and conceit. Scientists below they know far more than they do. The overestimation of their own capabilities and knowledge to truly understand the physical world gives them a false sense of their own intelligence. It identically parallel to Keynesian economics. THey ignore the unknowns and believe they can control or understand the infinitely complex. All science breaks down at the singularity. Relativity and quantum do not even agree at the point of the singularity. Yet, many scientists purport they know definitively there is no supreme being or God. Hogwash. Their belief is just that, belief. By definition, the singularity is the unkonwn. Utter morons. Their conclusion does nothing but further demonstrate their hopeless conceit and foolish arrogance.

Engineers on the other hand have to live and function in the real world. There is no place for conceit. Conservatism is the order even with innovative design. An engineer must recognize and accept the unknown. The unknown breeds a healthy respect for our ignorance as a species. Without caution in the face of the unknown, there is failure, usually catastrophic.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby vincentpa » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:46 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:I suspect that was a while ago, but probably well after the demise of the 8 track. We used an 11x17 printer routinely in our little office in '97. They were definitely a big enhancement to efficiency. It's seem like that doubling of size crosses some informational threshold that allows you to get far more than double the information on a single page.



The PDF is what really revolutionized the industry. I can now print quickly from my computer to a fast printer instead of a slow plotter. No more ammonia smelling blue line machines to make copies!
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby Glimmerjim » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:03 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
vincentpa wrote:Slow, have they ever made a poll of which direction engineers lean? I wonder why, :huh:

I would say 85-90% engineers are conservative, even gubment ones.

You can tell the conservative ones by their pocket protectors! :lol3:

I don't think I have ever seen anyone wear a pocket protector. Grandpa, it's the 21st century, they went out before the 8 track, another thing I don't believe I have ever seen used.

The 21st! Where have I been? :lol3: I've listened to 8 tracks and my father used a pocket protector most of his working life. Time for the pasture for me!
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:21 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
vincentpa wrote:Slow, have they ever made a poll of which direction engineers lean? I wonder why, :huh:

I would say 85-90% engineers are conservative, even gubment ones.

You can tell the conservative ones by their pocket protectors! :lol3:

I don't think I have ever seen anyone wear a pocket protector. Grandpa, it's the 21st century, they went out before the 8 track, another thing I don't believe I have ever seen used.

The 21st! Where have I been? :lol3: I've listened to 8 tracks and my father used a pocket protector most of his working life. Time for the pasture for me!

Sounds like it. :yes:

At this point I'm jealous. If I could afford go out to pasture, I'd be out the door tomorrow and spend the rest of my days enjoying hunting, fishing, and traveling. My only posts on DHC would be to show all the things I have caught or killed or saw. :yes:
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby High Sierras » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:01 pm

slowshooter wrote:I have a buddy that doesn't believe in gods. But considers himself religious.
Another that is an atheist but believes in a supreme being. I asked about that and he said "The supreme being is just another guy with a lot of power. That doesn't make him better or a God."


Hmmm...just another guy, with a lot of power...was this the guy who your buddy was thinking of???


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:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Definitely not better than anyone else. But he does seem to have a loyal, if somewhat mentally challenged, following.



slowshooter wrote:What do you call a person that doesn't believe that there is evidence that God exists - or evidence that God doesn't. Because that's me.

In spite of our enthusiastic differences on other topics, Slow, I'd call you normal on this one. No one has real, hard, incontrovertable evidence -- one way or the other-- of God's existence. That's why it's called faith.
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Re: Looks bad for Republicans that own hardware stores

Postby Glimmerjim » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:48 am

High Sierras wrote: In spite of our enthusiastic differences on other topics, Slow, I'd call you normal on this one. No one has real, hard, incontrovertable evidence -- one way or the other-- of God's existence. That's why it's called faith.

Here we go HS. I am fascinated with this subject...what is faith?
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