Navigatable water....?

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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby waterfowlman » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:29 am

Regarding tidal waters:
The mean-high-water line – this country’s principal waterfront property boundary, and the jurisdictional limit of the Corps of Engineers under the Rivers and Harbors Act is considered a benchmark in most cases involving waterfront land ownership.
I've hunted many Atlantic coast states and this rule has always held.
There are many farms and large tracks of land along the eastern seaboard that have private property/no hunting signs all along their shore line and we are free to hunt any where we like on these shores as long as we stay below the high water mark. (marked by the sea weed line)
Fortunately the game wardens are well aware of this "right" and inform the landowners of it when they complain about us waking them up with early morning gunfire. I've been told several times by law enforcement that as long as we are hunting from a boat, we can hunt just about anywhere we like in the state's coastal waters. (there are a few exceptions....such as wildlife refuges, etc. that require some common sense to be used)
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby talltimber » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:31 am

ScaupHunter, what is your position? Surveyor, Engineer, Developer? Just curious.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:09 am

talltimber wrote:ScaupHunter, what is your position? Surveyor, Engineer, Developer? Just curious.

well obviously, he's a Scaup Hunter...... :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby talltimber » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:49 am

Or Scalp, I'm not sure which. Lol
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby ScaupHunter » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:19 pm

It could be said I have hunted both in a manner of speaking.

Lets just say I have been in the engineering fields for over 25 years.

To the poster in Texas. If you blindly follow unlawful laws you are the problem and not the solution. It totally matters where you are from. If your a Cali jackass who wants to come into another state and try and push your views through and unsupported or unsupportable law you are going to get your butt handed to you by the locals. You don't know or understand our laws, and you would best best served by worrying about meeting the letter and work of yours. I am sure you never speed, never fiddle around on your taxes, etc....... Glass houses and all that. :beer:
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby bighop » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:56 pm

The Poster from Washington wrote:...Waterways are only considered navigable to the mean high water mark of the waterway. You can access any public waterway between the mean high water marks by foot, by boat, etc....


The Poster from Washington wrote:...I have challenged more than one federal LEO to show me where low water as defined by law was located....


The Poster from Washington wrote:...I simply hold a calm conversation with the officer and pin them down on where low water is located....


The Poster from Washington wrote:...It is not as easy as you make it sound.....


The Poster from Washington wrote:...The law is not as complex as lawyers want it to be....


The Poster from Washington wrote:...You don't know or understand our laws....


I don't even know how to respond because I don't really know what you're even trying to say. Is it low or high? Is the law easy or complex? Can I understand it or not? Is your brain about to explode with all these contradictions running around in there?

Maybe it's because I'm from TX, and Washington laws just can't be handled by my feeble mind.

I speed, and I pay my fines when I get caught. I don't "try to beat it or get around it." I don't mess around on taxes, I have too much to lose. So hunt and fish where you want, but do it in WA, because in TX if you're on private property carrying a firearm, or just on private property in the dark, you're liable to get shot by the landowner, who's in his right to do so.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby ScaupHunter » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:34 pm

Nice try at selective choices for quotes to try and make your point. Epic failure, but a nice try.

When you violate one law you have no footing to poke others when they are meeting the law of their state. Paying the fines doesn't change the hypocrisy of trying to say everyone should obey the law and then violating it yourself. Perhaps a bit of reflection on your personal integrity and honesty is in order. I suggest you and stay out of glass houses.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby bighop » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:44 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:Nice try at selective choices for quotes to try and make your point. Epic failure, but a nice try.

When you violate one law you have no footing to poke others when they are meeting the law of their state. Paying the fines doesn't change the hypocrisy of trying to say everyone should obey the law and then violating it yourself. Perhaps a bit of reflection on your personal integrity and honesty is in order. I suggest you and stay out of glass houses.

ScaupHunter wrote:The law is not that hard to beat or get around if you read it and use common sense.

Wait, whut?
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby Underradar » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:32 am

Inferiority complex. Debilitating, then, fatal.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:59 am

What I love most about America today is how many people have turned into sheeple. Some bureaucrat decided to push a law through! Damn you freedom loving Americans! How dare you challenge the mindless bureaucracy and its stupidity. How dare you scoff that the multitude of ridiculous laws. How dare you stand up for yourself and make the system prove up on their laws. You are a heinous fiend and should be jailed promptly for practicing freedom. Men who simply roll over are exactly why this country is where it is at today. Those folks are why this country is failing and our government is telling us what to do.

There a thousands and tens of thousands of laws in each state. How many here including the lawyers are dumb enough to claim they are all valid. How many will claim that they all are enforceable / enforced. How about simply understandable as a mass entity of laws. The legislators who write them do not understand them and often end up repealing their own stupidity when unintended consequences occur. Laws get thrown out by the various supreme courts of the states and US government.

I deal with laws, regulations, and their enforcement for a living. I have had to operate under, in, around, through, and behind the laws for decades. I love it when someone points out that you don't blindly obey the law and then an attorney of all people hops on the bashing band wagon. The single most likely individual to attempt to warp, twist, or turn the law to their advantage is an attorney or a cop. Don't think so? Lets have a long chat about the list. You know that list of people who do not get pulled over when speeding. The list that includes every law enforcement officer in the state. Lets chat about officers in their daily duties without a crisis parking in no parking zones, etc....... How do I know about these things. I have family, friends, and neighbors who are all cops. They know what I do for a living and often joke with me about this and multiple other things they are allowed to get away with.

I was raised to believe that you always question, you don't just blindly obey anyone, and you make sure that the law is held to a higher standard than the public. I find people who try and enforce things that are not lawful, or try to enforce things they think they can without support or proof to be extremely foolish. I get a lot of personal pleasure in politely putting them in their place. It is called challenging the system. It is forcing the system to prove up. It is good for the system, it is good for the people of America, and it is good for the soul. Don't feel like going to the effort. To afraid to step up and risk it? Then run along citizen what your about to see may disturb you. :beer:

Inferiority complex to a lawyer? :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: Go back to being afraid of spiders barrister. :beer:
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby bighop » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:52 pm

I always just passed on scaup because they're hard to clean and don't taste very good.


Apparently consuming them also interferes with frontal lobe function.

This is good to know.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby D Comeaux » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:53 pm

bighop wrote:I always just passed on scaup because they're hard to clean and don't taste very good.


Apparently consuming them also interferes with frontal lobe function.

This is good to know.


I :lol3:.... Sorry, couldn't help it....
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:50 pm

bighop wrote:I always just passed on scaup because they're hard to clean and don't taste very good.


Apparently consuming them also interferes with frontal lobe function.

This is good to know.


:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: Nice response.

How about you stop avoiding the facts and address the issues. Or is that beyond a Texan?
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby BEDB » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:15 pm

luie b wrote:I think in Illinois you can navigate the flooded area with your boat but you may not anchor then you would be trespassing. So you could pretty much not hunt it, but you could fish it.

Does the land owner own to the middle of the waterway? For example could you anchor near shore, wade, and set decoys in normal water without trespassing? Never could get a straight answer
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby bighop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:51 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:
bighop wrote:I always just passed on scaup because they're hard to clean and don't taste very good.


Apparently consuming them also interferes with frontal lobe function.

This is good to know.


:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: Nice response.

How about you stop avoiding the facts and address the issues. Or is that beyond a Texan?

I still don't see your "facts." You've presented arguments for high water line and low water line. You've stated the law isn't that hard to get around, and claimed you're meeting the law of your state.

Is it legal to use deadly force to defend property in Washington? It is in Texas. Knowing whether I'm trespassing or not is a matter of life and death here. Can't say that makes me sheeple, or makes me part of the problem for "blindly following laws." It just means I want to come home from the marsh with the same 9 holes in my body I left home with....
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:31 pm

Your posts need more than a little support there bub. Your confused as to what your laws say. Otherwise there would be a lot of dead Coyotes ( human ) along the Texas border. I don't hear or read about any property owners hosing the Coyotes down or the armed drug runners either. Protecting your property does not include shooting random people armed or otherwise who are on your property.

No it doesn't. Your holier than thou attitude about obeying laws while violating them makes you sheeple. Look in the mirror and slowly say BAAAAAAAAAAAAA. :thumbsup:
Last edited by ScaupHunter on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby OGblackcloud » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:32 pm

UH OH
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby bighop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:35 pm

Support enough for you?

Texas Penal Code wrote:Subch. D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY
PC §9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY.
(a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using
force against another when and t o the degree the actor reasonably
believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the
other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with
the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable
property by another is justified in using force against the other when and
to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately
necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the
force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1)
the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when
he dispossessed the actor; or
(2)the other accomplished the dis
PC §9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.
A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible,
movable property:
(1)if he would be justified in using force against the other under
Section 9.41; and
(2)when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force
is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary,
robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal
mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after
committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the
nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3)
he reasonably believes that:
(A)
the land or propertycannot be protected or recovered by any
other means; or
(B)
the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

PC §9.43. PROTECTION OF
THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY.
A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property of a t hird person if, under the circumstances
as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under
Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land
or property and:
(1)
the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference
constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the
tangible movable property; or
(2)
the actor reasonably believes that:
(A)
the third person has requested his protection of the land orproperty;
(B)
he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C)
the third person whose land or property he uses force or
deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with
the actor, or is under the actor's care.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby bighop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:38 pm

Pay attention to 9.42.3.B

If you're carrying a gun on my property, I suspect approaching you may lead to serious bodily injury and I can shoot you.

Now, how about some sort of support for your low (or high) water claims in the state of Washington?
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby bighop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:40 pm

And if you want to come down and hose down some coyotes, we can see how long their amigos let you stay alive after the fact. The scaup population would be booming.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby Locked&Loaded » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:49 pm

bighop wrote:I always just passed on scaup because they're hard to clean and don't taste very good.


Apparently consuming them also interferes with frontal lobe function.

This is good to know.


Is the scaup species on the 'high in mercury' list? Would explain a lot...
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby bighop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:53 pm

Locked&Loaded wrote:
bighop wrote:I always just passed on scaup because they're hard to clean and don't taste very good.


Apparently consuming them also interferes with frontal lobe function.

This is good to know.


Is the scaup species on the 'high in mercury' list? Would explain a lot...

I don't think so. Maybe. Do scaup eat tuna or kingfish?
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby Locked&Loaded » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:58 pm

bighop wrote:
Locked&Loaded wrote:
bighop wrote:I always just passed on scaup because they're hard to clean and don't taste very good.


Apparently consuming them also interferes with frontal lobe function.

This is good to know.


Is the scaup species on the 'high in mercury' list? Would explain a lot...

I don't think so. Maybe. Do scaup eat tuna or kingfish?


I really don't know. In my neck of the woods, the mercury consumption advisories were issued for common goldeneye, cinnamon teal, and shovelers.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby bighop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:02 pm

Locked&Loaded wrote:
bighop wrote:
Locked&Loaded wrote:
bighop wrote:I always just passed on scaup because they're hard to clean and don't taste very good.


Apparently consuming them also interferes with frontal lobe function.

This is good to know.


Is the scaup species on the 'high in mercury' list? Would explain a lot...

I don't think so. Maybe. Do scaup eat tuna or kingfish?


I really don't know. In my neck of the woods, the mercury consumption advisories were issued for common goldeneye, cinnamon teal, and shovelers.

I'm thinking more lead early in life than mercury here.
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Re: Navigatable water....?

Postby Locked&Loaded » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:11 pm

bighop wrote:
Locked&Loaded wrote:
bighop wrote:
Locked&Loaded wrote:
bighop wrote:I always just passed on scaup because they're hard to clean and don't taste very good.


Apparently consuming them also interferes with frontal lobe function.

This is good to know.


Is the scaup species on the 'high in mercury' list? Would explain a lot...

I don't think so. Maybe. Do scaup eat tuna or kingfish?


I really don't know. In my neck of the woods, the mercury consumption advisories were issued for common goldeneye, cinnamon teal, and shovelers.

I'm thinking more lead early in life than mercury here.


I was attempting to make a correlation between scaup hunters delusional behavior and scaup species consumption as a potential cause of neurotoxin exposure. It appears I have failed...
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