When are people going to wake up and get mad?

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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:45 pm

The Confederate wrote:When you have a government watching citizens activities and monitoring them without probable cause, then yes that is a police state. I'd rather be a little paranoid and prepared, than live in some dream land where I can completely ignore what's going on.


name a government that does not watch or monitor to some level.


and btw.....

police state n.
A state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the people, especially by means of a secret police force.

i would say your definition is a little off in this case. that was my point.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby The Confederate » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:48 pm

Just because all governments do it to a degree, that doesn't make it ok. That's why we started this country remember? Government tried to determine people's religion by monitoring and persecuting people, so they came here to practice free religion. And by your definition we live in a police state right now.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby clampdaddy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:23 pm

The Confederate wrote: ......they came here to practice free religion.......
Kind of. They came here to practice "their" religion, not "free" religion. If you ended up on the bad side of the congregation you may find yourself tied to a chair and chucked into a river. :lol3:
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby The Confederate » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:25 pm

True. Bad word choice.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:31 pm

The Confederate wrote:Just because all governments do it to a degree, that doesn't make it ok. That's why we started this country remember? Government tried to determine people's religion by monitoring and persecuting people, so they came here to practice free religion. And by your definition we live in a police state right now.

rigid and repressive controls? really? :rolleyes:
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby The Confederate » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:38 pm

I think so. I believe the IRS targeting of conservative companies would include all three of those. And that is just one scandal that we KNOW about. Everyone has a different opinion/tolerance of what they think Is oppressive. Mine just happens to be low.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby beretta24 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:49 pm

Is Kiwi aidenK....hope he doesn't see URs avatar.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby assateague » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:07 pm

ohioboy wrote:
The Confederate wrote:Just because all governments do it to a degree, that doesn't make it ok. That's why we started this country remember? Government tried to determine people's religion by monitoring and persecuting people, so they came here to practice free religion. And by your definition we live in a police state right now.

rigid and repressive controls? really? :rolleyes:



What happens if I don't pay my taxes? What happens if I want to build a house on my land, which the government has declared a wetland? What happens if i don't send my kids to school?

Have you ever had an adult job in the private sector?
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby clampdaddy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:25 pm

assateague wrote: .....What happens if I want to build a house on my land, without paying to get their permission?


FIFY.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:30 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
assateague wrote: .....What happens if I want to build a house on my land, without paying to get their permission?


FIFY.

you live in California right? How about the rain water laws in the west making it illegal to catch and hold rain water ON YOUR OWN DAMN LAND?!?!
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby clampdaddy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:34 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
assateague wrote: .....What happens if I want to build a house on my land, without paying to get their permission?


FIFY.

you live in California right? How about the rain water laws in the west making it illegal to catch and hold rain water ON YOUR OWN DAMN LAND?!?!

I haven't heard of that one yet. I did hear something about a small rain water bottler that is being squeezed by the big bottled water guys.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:36 pm

north of you I think in washington...but it's been a while since I have read about it. state claims the rain is theirs-not yours.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:46 pm

The Confederate wrote:I think so. I believe the IRS targeting of conservative companies would include all three of those. And that is just one scandal that we KNOW about. Everyone has a different opinion/tolerance of what they think Is oppressive. Mine just happens to be low.

fair.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:51 pm

assateague wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
The Confederate wrote:Just because all governments do it to a degree, that doesn't make it ok. That's why we started this country remember? Government tried to determine people's religion by monitoring and persecuting people, so they came here to practice free religion. And by your definition we live in a police state right now.

rigid and repressive controls? really? :rolleyes:



What happens if I don't pay my taxes? What happens if I want to build a house on my land, which the government has declared a wetland? What happens if i don't send my kids to school?

Have you ever had an adult job in the private sector?


oh Assa. so condescending. another thread got you upset?

anyways, i guess my definition of rigid and repressive is not that. and if you dont like it so much why stay? why not go? and again, you can choose to not answer. you have done it before. i always answer any question asked.

and yes, i have had other jobs. thanks dad.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:52 pm

Indaswamp wrote:north of you I think in washington...but it's been a while since I have read about it. state claims the rain is theirs-not yours.


idaho has issues with this i know.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:57 pm

ohioboy wrote:
assateague wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
The Confederate wrote:Just because all governments do it to a degree, that doesn't make it ok. That's why we started this country remember? Government tried to determine people's religion by monitoring and persecuting people, so they came here to practice free religion. And by your definition we live in a police state right now.

rigid and repressive controls? really? :rolleyes:



What happens if I don't pay my taxes? What happens if I want to build a house on my land, which the government has declared a wetland? What happens if i don't send my kids to school?

Have you ever had an adult job in the private sector?


oh Assa. so condescending. another thread got you upset?

anyways, i guess my definition of rigid and repressive is not that. and if you dont like it so much why stay? why not go? and again, you can choose to not answer. you have done it before. i always answer any question asked.

and yes, i have had other jobs. thanks dad.

Let me explain this for you...
it's debatable as to the degree that we have become a police state, but no doubt we have moved in that direction. That the infrastructure is in place for it to be full blown can not be denied. All it takes is for the government to use it.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:09 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
assateague wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
The Confederate wrote:Just because all governments do it to a degree, that doesn't make it ok. That's why we started this country remember? Government tried to determine people's religion by monitoring and persecuting people, so they came here to practice free religion. And by your definition we live in a police state right now.

rigid and repressive controls? really? :rolleyes:



What happens if I don't pay my taxes? What happens if I want to build a house on my land, which the government has declared a wetland? What happens if i don't send my kids to school?

Have you ever had an adult job in the private sector?


oh Assa. so condescending. another thread got you upset?

anyways, i guess my definition of rigid and repressive is not that. and if you dont like it so much why stay? why not go? and again, you can choose to not answer. you have done it before. i always answer any question asked.

and yes, i have had other jobs. thanks dad.

Let me explain this for you...
it's debatable as to the degree that we have become a police state, but no doubt we have moved in that direction. That the infrastructure is in place for it to be full blown can not be denied. All it takes is for the government to use it.


sure. inda, no explanation needed. you forget there are rocket batteries (not sure if this is the right word, but i can see rockets from the road) and hummers on the side of the highway with m2s and grenade launchers by me. i see it probably more than most on here.

is there any government worth its salt that does not have the parts ready to roll? i would say no. that is how they keep control if they start to lose it. balance is the key.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:18 pm

ohioboy wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
assateague wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
The Confederate wrote:Just because all governments do it to a degree, that doesn't make it ok. That's why we started this country remember? Government tried to determine people's religion by monitoring and persecuting people, so they came here to practice free religion. And by your definition we live in a police state right now.

rigid and repressive controls? really? :rolleyes:



What happens if I don't pay my taxes? What happens if I want to build a house on my land, which the government has declared a wetland? What happens if i don't send my kids to school?

Have you ever had an adult job in the private sector?


oh Assa. so condescending. another thread got you upset?

anyways, i guess my definition of rigid and repressive is not that. and if you dont like it so much why stay? why not go? and again, you can choose to not answer. you have done it before. i always answer any question asked.

and yes, i have had other jobs. thanks dad.

Let me explain this for you...
it's debatable as to the degree that we have become a police state, but no doubt we have moved in that direction. That the infrastructure is in place for it to be full blown can not be denied. All it takes is for the government to use it.


sure. inda, no explanation needed. you forget there are rocket batteries (not sure if this is the right word, but i can see rockets from the road) and hummers on the side of the highway with m2s and grenade launchers by me. i see it probably more than most on here.

is there any government worth its salt that does not have the parts ready to roll? i would say no. that is how they keep control if they start to lose it. balance is the key.

you can't see the forest for the trees my friend.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:43 am

cartervj wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
Elvis Kiwi wrote:probable cause is a very very good point
now how do you get probable cause to look into a matter in the first place???
if some low life is down loading kiddy porn and the powers that be find that out by checking the internet history. that my good fellow is probable cause (in my opinion) to have a closer look at just what the deviant is getting up to.
if the police take a case to court they still have to be able to justify all actions to a judge and jury ...do they not????
is the trail cam you have watching your hunting area to see whats going on legal??? or is it spying and invading someones privacy...you never know who might want to be doing what in the bushes :huh:
this is a controversial issue and mostly puts the 2 sides of the fence miles apart...maybe its a big red herring to stop us looking at what else is going on in the houses of power???


Without probable cause, everyone is a suspect and the government would be free to harass, detain, oppress or persecute at its whim. Probable cause protects free citizens from a tyrannical government. We know criminals will go free because of it. It's a trade off we are willing to make to ensure our liberty. Probable cause was written into our Constitution as a direct reaction to the open and universal warrants issued by George III on the colonies before our revolution.


Sent from my iPhone 5, which sucks my cojones. Don't buy one.



sounds like how our Gov has been acting lately. the IRS and NSA are a prime examples

man you fellas like to jump 3 steps ahead of the horse dont you???
checking internet history= who is looking at what...now how is that done..well you sign in to a site, just like we all have done here and you start watching..now when some one starts saying things or adding things that are off your alarm bells ring???do they not????
so if the powers that be have people "watching" sites that are known to harbor people who are inclined to be offsides with socially acceptable behavior. if the spot a person of interest there and start looking elsewhere at what they are up to well good for them :thumbsup:
as Ive said before if you are on an electronic device communicating you should EXPECT that it MAY be listened in to by SOMEONE good bad or deviantly inclined.
I have faith in our police system and have good friends who work in it.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby vincentpa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:52 am

ohioboy wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
Elvis Kiwi wrote:this issue has been all over the news here lately too. it doesnt bother me too much but then I dont personally have a "big brother complex" if the police want to look into my doings ...well they can look all they like. if Im being a bad boy well I can expect to get a kick up the butt. if my nose is clean they have bigger fishes to fry.
how do you think the powers that be catch the pervs of this world???
by looking at what goes on on the internet and acting on it
if the powers that be had looked a little harder pre 9/11.....need I say more???
if you walk along the sidewalk dragging a stick against the yard fence the dog will bark,if you dont it wont.
if you think you arent being listened in on or this post being read/monitors you are sadly mistaken, wake up and smell the dog turds the horse has well and truely bolted no point in slamming the gate shut now.
have you ever listened in on an electronic scanner???
how about taken your cordless phone for a drive around till it started to work again on someone else s line.
anything you do electronically can be got at.

:clapping: Pretty much as I see it Elvis. We know the capabilities of electronic eavesdropping. Corporations have been doing it for retail advantage for years. I really don't think I do anything that would warrant surveillance by anyone. If they attempt it, they had better have a damn good dose of patience, because their oversight will be as exciting as watching "The Bachelorette" with your wife. Now, if we consider it as always an "us against them" condition, I can understand concern. I simply don't feel that way about our government. Transgressions? Of course. There are transgressions occurring in the business of trying to run a fruit stand. But does it affect me if more is known about me? I hope not. I would be guilty of something if such were the case.


You two are complete idiots. Free peoples should not be watched by their government. In a free society, we don't have overseers. It opens the door to oppression and tyranny. No free people should have to live in fear of the misdeeds of their government. Only children and fools would believe the government wouldn't abuse this power regularly. I haven't even addressed the fact that I as well as most Americans value our privacy. It is nobody's business but mine how I live my life. The government can piss off.



how do you define government?



Don't play the fool.
Last edited by vincentpa on Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
In a free society, it is not the obligation of the citizen to prove to the government that he is a good person. It is the obligation of the government to prove to the rest of the citizenry that the citizen is a bad person, with probable cause.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby vincentpa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:34 am

ohioboy wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
assateague wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
The Confederate wrote:Just because all governments do it to a degree, that doesn't make it ok. That's why we started this country remember? Government tried to determine people's religion by monitoring and persecuting people, so they came here to practice free religion. And by your definition we live in a police state right now.

rigid and repressive controls? really? :rolleyes:



What happens if I don't pay my taxes? What happens if I want to build a house on my land, which the government has declared a wetland? What happens if i don't send my kids to school?

Have you ever had an adult job in the private sector?


oh Assa. so condescending. another thread got you upset?

anyways, i guess my definition of rigid and repressive is not that. and if you dont like it so much why stay? why not go? and again, you can choose to not answer. you have done it before. i always answer any question asked.

and yes, i have had other jobs. thanks dad.

Let me explain this for you...
it's debatable as to the degree that we have become a police state, but no doubt we have moved in that direction. That the infrastructure is in place for it to be full blown can not be denied. All it takes is for the government to use it.


sure. inda, no explanation needed. you forget there are rocket batteries (not sure if this is the right word, but i can see rockets from the road) and hummers on the side of the highway with m2s and grenade launchers by me. i see it probably more than most on here.

is there any government worth its salt that does not have the parts ready to roll? i would say no. that is how they keep control if they start to lose it. balance is the key.



You make very juvenile arguments. Others do it so it make it acceptable that we do it. :no: My guess is that you don't run the debate team.

You are equating the military to a secret police force and surveillance activity. :huh:

One does not need rocket batteries to be oppressed. All one needs is the IRS, FEC and SEC harassing the political opposition to stifle their speech. All one needs is the IRS harassing citizens based on how they contribute to certain political organizations. All you need is the IRS (government) harassing businesses based on their political contributions. All you need is the FBI and Justice Department harassing the families of the political opposition. All you need is one branch of a divided government to routinely violate the law and act unilaterally to create and suspend laws. All you need is a government that uses the regulatory agencies to create law thereby circumventing the separation of powers guaranteed by the Constitution. All you need is the government to use the regulatory agencies as a de facto police force to "attack" or harass citizens and businesses through punitive fines or imprisonment for whatever political whim. All you need is a government that has developed such a convoluted legal and regulatory system that the average citizen commits three federal crimes per day. This alone gives the government power to harass, imprison, and persecute almost anyone for any reason. Now add to this mix, the ability of the government to spy on the citizens by reading their emails, collecting absurd amounts of personal data, the ability to tap cell phones by turning them on through built-in back door programs, listen to calls through the NSA, etc…

All of these things are occurring with more frequency on a daily basis. I'm sorry for you (and me) that people like you aren't paying attention but seem so willing to express strong opinions based on your ignorance. But hey, at least you don't have rocket batteries from the road.
In a free society, it is not the obligation of the citizen to prove to the government that he is a good person. It is the obligation of the government to prove to the rest of the citizenry that the citizen is a bad person, with probable cause.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby ohioboy » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:01 am

vincentpa wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
Elvis Kiwi wrote:this issue has been all over the news here lately too. it doesnt bother me too much but then I dont personally have a "big brother complex" if the police want to look into my doings ...well they can look all they like. if Im being a bad boy well I can expect to get a kick up the butt. if my nose is clean they have bigger fishes to fry.
how do you think the powers that be catch the pervs of this world???
by looking at what goes on on the internet and acting on it
if the powers that be had looked a little harder pre 9/11.....need I say more???
if you walk along the sidewalk dragging a stick against the yard fence the dog will bark,if you dont it wont.
if you think you arent being listened in on or this post being read/monitors you are sadly mistaken, wake up and smell the dog turds the horse has well and truely bolted no point in slamming the gate shut now.
have you ever listened in on an electronic scanner???
how about taken your cordless phone for a drive around till it started to work again on someone else s line.
anything you do electronically can be got at.

:clapping: Pretty much as I see it Elvis. We know the capabilities of electronic eavesdropping. Corporations have been doing it for retail advantage for years. I really don't think I do anything that would warrant surveillance by anyone. If they attempt it, they had better have a damn good dose of patience, because their oversight will be as exciting as watching "The Bachelorette" with your wife. Now, if we consider it as always an "us against them" condition, I can understand concern. I simply don't feel that way about our government. Transgressions? Of course. There are transgressions occurring in the business of trying to run a fruit stand. But does it affect me if more is known about me? I hope not. I would be guilty of something if such were the case.


You two are complete idiots. Free peoples should not be watched by their government. In a free society, we don't have overseers. It opens the door to oppression and tyranny. No free people should have to live in fear of the misdeeds of their government. Only children and fools would believe the government wouldn't abuse this power regularly. I haven't even addressed the fact that I as well as most Americans value our privacy. It is nobody's business but mine how I live my life. The government can piss off.



how do you define government?



Don't play the fool.


I was serious.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby vincentpa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:24 am

ohioboy wrote:
ohioboy wrote:

how do you define government?


vincentpa wrote:Don't play the fool.


I was serious.



I don't feel any need to respond to this foolishness. Don't try to be clever. It's not working for you.
In a free society, it is not the obligation of the citizen to prove to the government that he is a good person. It is the obligation of the government to prove to the rest of the citizenry that the citizen is a bad person, with probable cause.
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Re: When are people going to wake up and get mad?

Postby ohioboy » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:41 am

vincentpa wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
ohioboy wrote:

how do you define government?


vincentpa wrote:Don't play the fool.


I was serious.



I don't feel any need to respond to this foolishness. Don't try to be clever. It's not working for you.

Ok? I was asking to respond to you. Thought that was how this works.
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