Hey Ohio- A test for today

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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:32 pm

assateague wrote:Exactly my point- you need to learn how to spell and use proper grammar. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.


And, once again, what are all these "technologies and advances" you speak of, the teaching of which sucks up class time?


do your kids have computers in their schools? this might be the problem.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:36 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:Pottery classes in middle school? Dance class? I can go on for an hour with all the useless classes that are available. That time would be far better spent teaching reading, writing, and arithmatic. What is being taught today is often a complete joke. I could have graduated todays high school exams when walking out of the 8th grade. Then again I went to a private school and had a mother who was doom on a black horse about to run you over if you brought home bad grades.

Ohio, The system is severely broken, defending it makes you look a bit foolish.

For the record, as a history teacher your lessons should never have to change once written. History hasn't changed.


the system has a lot of parts. i am not saying all is well, i am saying the blame needs to be spread around.

history does not change, we just add to it or redefine it. that means something like the battle of quebec (never heard of it honestly) might be passed over.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:44 pm

vincentpa wrote:History should be taught by time periods. There is no reason to alter the earlier time periods or diminish their importance. I live in a very important city historically in our country and for that matter at times the world. The historical importance and its history are not taught in schools. What a tragedy! Every European knows their local history and well, even the dummies. Shame on us.



Sent from my iPhone 5, which sucks my cojones. Don't buy one.


ok, but the time periods keep adding up.

1. should we add a grade? how do you suggest we teach more in the same amount of time?


2. back to Assa and the original test-i am betting that the teachers who designed that test taught exactly that material. and with limited book availability, i am sure it came right from the teachers. even with that benefit the kids did horribly (see statistics i posted previously). Assa, do you care to tackle that point or do you want to ignore it?
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:53 pm

certainly dont need to add this to todays education. it happened in the last 100 years.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperie ... man-ein39/
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby assateague » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:53 pm

Ok, I'll say it slowly- what has been "added" to the 8th grade curriculum in the last 100 years that has been such a time suck that now you have kids who cannot read?

If you don't want to say, because its embarrassing, that's fine. If you don't want to say, because you don't know, that's fine also. You keep claiming that the stuff on this test is "useless" because there's so much "modernity" which needs to be taught. If you can't see the many critical thinking and learned skills which are necessary to answer damn near every one of those questions, then, frankly, you probably shouldn't be a teacher.

But for God's sake, you just said we've "added" to history. My daughter has studied nothing more recent than about 1850, to this point (8th grade). I doubt she would get even one question on that test right, much less pass it.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby assateague » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:03 pm

As for the Battle of Quebec, and it's significance, I googled it, since I didn't know what it was, either. The difference is, I am not a self-professed excellent history teacher.

What you pooh-poohed away was the battle which gave the British dominance over North America, to include making Canada a British territory, ceding control of all lands east of the Mississippi to the British, and ensuring their dominance and continued ownership of our 13 colonies. Had they lost, there's a very good possibility we would be speaking French right now, and our history would be completely different.

But hey, you didn't know that, and declared it not important. Good job, Teach.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:34 pm

assateague wrote:As for the Battle of Quebec, and it's significance, I googled it, since I didn't know what it was, either. The difference is, I am not a self-professed excellent history teacher.

What you pooh-poohed away was the battle which gave the British dominance over North America, to include making Canada a British territory, ceding control of all lands east of the Mississippi to the British, and ensuring their dominance and continued ownership of our 13 colonies. Had they lost, there's a very good possibility we would be speaking French right now, and our history would be completely different.

But hey, you didn't know that, and declared it not important. Good job, Teach.


not important, or not in the time frame we have to teach. should i say it slowly? sorry Assa. i am a teacher. not ashamed to admit it. what is your profession? care to share?
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:45 pm

assateague wrote:Ok, I'll say it slowly- what has been "added" to the 8th grade curriculum in the last 100 years that has been such a time suck that now you have kids who cannot read?

If you don't want to say, because its embarrassing, that's fine. If you don't want to say, because you don't know, that's fine also. You keep claiming that the stuff on this test is "useless" because there's so much "modernity" which needs to be taught. If you can't see the many critical thinking and learned skills which are necessary to answer damn near every one of those questions, then, frankly, you probably shouldn't be a teacher.

But for God's sake, you just said we've "added" to history. My daughter has studied nothing more recent than about 1850, to this point (8th grade). I doubt she would get even one question on that test right, much less pass it.


do you not think we know more today? more details? or straightened out things that were wrongly taught before (by choice or lack of info?)? you familiar with the scopes monkey trial? you do know that women could not vote in 1912? and 8th grade in 1912 was the end of the line, if you even got there, for many kids. you desperately want to be right.

you avoided my questions from before. cut and paste:
2. back to Assa and the original test-i am betting that the teachers who designed that test taught exactly that material. and with limited book availability, i am sure it came right from the teachers. even with that benefit the kids did horribly (see statistics i posted previously). Assa, do you care to tackle that point or do you want to ignore it?

and

do your kids have computers in their schools? this might be the problem. and how much are they used? what is the name of the school. i would love to see its track record. i put my school out there. not calling you out, just curious since you talk a big game.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby assateague » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Yes, they have computers. They have iPads, for ****'s sake. And $5000 "smart boards" in the classrooms. And kids who don't know what a fraction is.

As for what you want answered, I have absolutely no clue what you want answered.

Are you finished tap-dancing around what all has consumed so much classroom time? So far, your answer has been "lots of stuff", which ain't gonna cut it.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:54 pm

assateague wrote:Yes, they have computers. They have iPads, for ****'s sake. And $5000 "smart boards" in the classrooms. And kids who don't know what a fraction is.

As for what you want answered, I have absolutely no clue what you want answered.

Are you finished tap-dancing around what all has consumed so much classroom time? So far, your answer has been "lots of stuff", which ain't gonna cut it.

2. back to Assa and the original test-i am betting that the teachers who designed that test taught exactly that material. and with limited book availability, i am sure it came right from the teachers. even with that benefit the kids did horribly (see statistics i posted previously). Assa, do you care to tackle that point or do you want to ignore it?
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:56 pm

assateague wrote:Yes, they have computers. They have iPads, for ****'s sake. And $5000 "smart boards" in the classrooms. And kids who don't know what a fraction is.

As for what you want answered, I have absolutely no clue what you want answered.

Are you finished tap-dancing around what all has consumed so much classroom time? So far, your answer has been "lots of stuff", which ain't gonna cut it.

do you not think we know more today? more details? or straightened out things that were wrongly taught before (by choice or lack of info?)?
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:04 pm

and teaching how to use the technology is a large part of what we do. its new to us and to them. its hard. it takes practice.

if you want me to teach that test to my kids, they would crush it. if you want me to teach a huge curriculum (no grades are different really) and not teach what is on the test (i dont get the final exam until the day they take it), it takes more than just standing up and lecturing. "But that is how i learned!" Sure. Awesome. Great. Today we do projects, debates, hands on stuff. They actually learn it and not just memorize it. that is all kids did 50 years ago. that is why today we have added in the many ways we come up with a grade. it is not just a test anymore. there is a ton of variety to the assessments.

who do you think allowed the system to get this far gone? it is in need of fixing, i have always said that. so who? wasnt me. i walked into this the way it was.

start searching for this and i think you will hate who you have to be mad at.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:38 pm

assateague wrote:Ok, I'll say it slowly- what has been "added" to the 8th grade curriculum in the last 100 years that has been such a time suck that now you have kids who cannot read?

If you don't want to say, because its embarrassing, that's fine. If you don't want to say, because you don't know, that's fine also. You keep claiming that the stuff on this test is "useless" because there's so much "modernity" which needs to be taught. If you can't see the many critical thinking and learned skills which are necessary to answer damn near every one of those questions, then, frankly, you probably shouldn't be a teacher.

But for God's sake, you just said we've "added" to history. My daughter has studied nothing more recent than about 1850, to this point (8th grade). I doubt she would get even one question on that test right, much less pass it.

Um, Assateague, 100 years of history has been added that must be taught...... :wink:
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:59 pm

care to comment on this...
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-asks-public-schools-to-ingore-bad-behavoir-by-black-students
Obama signs an executive order....
On July 26th Obama signed an executive order titled the "African American Education Initiative." The order essentially gives a green light for black students to misbehave in public schools. In two places, Obama's executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students. The order specifically calls on schools too "not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools."


change we can believe in.... :rolleyes:
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:02 am

ohioboy wrote:
assateague wrote:Yes, they have computers. They have iPads, for ****'s sake. And $5000 "smart boards" in the classrooms. And kids who don't know what a fraction is.

As for what you want answered, I have absolutely no clue what you want answered.

Are you finished tap-dancing around what all has consumed so much classroom time? So far, your answer has been "lots of stuff", which ain't gonna cut it.

2. back to Assa and the original test-i am betting that the teachers who designed that test taught exactly that material. and with limited book availability, i am sure it came right from the teachers. even with that benefit the kids did horribly (see statistics i posted previously). Assa, do you care to tackle that point or do you want to ignore it?



You want me to "tackle" something that "you're betting on"? That's your point?

Well, ok.

Each question on that test involves a massive (by today's standards) amount of critical thinking for an eight grader. So if you mean "they taught children how to think" as a means of teaching the test, then yes, that is exactly what I think. As for "kids doing horribly", should I regurgitate your reasons for the massive amount of failures by high school students in Montgomery County which was addressed in a recent thread, or would your response simply be some variation of "well, that's different"?

You continually state "technology" as something which has "robbed" students of classroom time, requiring teachers to "teach" it, and I have repeatedly asked for examples. Since you haven't clarified, I'll provide some which weren't around then, and you can tell me how the current educational system in general, and you specifically, has deemed them "necessary" to be taught in schools:
-automobiles
-airplanes
-microwaves
-cell phones
-refrigerators
-televisions
-asphalt shingles
-nylon
-fluorescent lights
-running water
-Xboxes
-drive thrus
-electronic cash registers
-toasters
-gas pumps
-thermostats
-ATMs
-steam irons

There are no "how-tos" for any of these technological advances covered in any grade school I've ever been to. Yet people know how to operate them. Huh.

You claim things have been "added", which detracts from the time available. So I ask again- what has been "added" that hasn't simply replaced something? Even a computer simply took the place of the Dewey Decimal system lessons, card catalogs, Encyclopedia Britannicas, a pencil, and a piece of notebook paper. They are simply tools, a means to an end, not ends in and of themselves.

As for condescending, I condescend because you're not that bright. Apparently, you are used to dealing with compliant (or apathetic) students, who accept what you say at face value, rather than people who have more education, experience, and wisdom than you do. And when challenged, you don't like it. So you resort to puerile nonsense, and hope you can bluff your way out of it, through platitudes, vagaries, and a whole lot of fluff. Make no mistake- I'm not mad, aggravated, or anything close. I am simply more and more confident in my assessment of both teachers and the educational system. Thanks for that.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:04 am

Indaswamp wrote:
assateague wrote:Ok, I'll say it slowly- what has been "added" to the 8th grade curriculum in the last 100 years that has been such a time suck that now you have kids who cannot read?

If you don't want to say, because its embarrassing, that's fine. If you don't want to say, because you don't know, that's fine also. You keep claiming that the stuff on this test is "useless" because there's so much "modernity" which needs to be taught. If you can't see the many critical thinking and learned skills which are necessary to answer damn near every one of those questions, then, frankly, you probably shouldn't be a teacher.

But for God's sake, you just said we've "added" to history. My daughter has studied nothing more recent than about 1850, to this point (8th grade). I doubt she would get even one question on that test right, much less pass it.

Um, Assateague, 100 years of history has been added that must be taught...... :wink:



Of course we have. And when either of my kids takes a "modern history" or "current events" class, that's the place for it. Neither of which is taught, at least up through eighth grade here.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:07 am

assateague wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
assateague wrote:Ok, I'll say it slowly- what has been "added" to the 8th grade curriculum in the last 100 years that has been such a time suck that now you have kids who cannot read?

If you don't want to say, because its embarrassing, that's fine. If you don't want to say, because you don't know, that's fine also. You keep claiming that the stuff on this test is "useless" because there's so much "modernity" which needs to be taught. If you can't see the many critical thinking and learned skills which are necessary to answer damn near every one of those questions, then, frankly, you probably shouldn't be a teacher.

But for God's sake, you just said we've "added" to history. My daughter has studied nothing more recent than about 1850, to this point (8th grade). I doubt she would get even one question on that test right, much less pass it.

Um, Assateague, 100 years of history has been added that must be taught...... :wink:



Of course we have. And when either of my kids takes a "modern history" or "current events" class, that's the place for it. Neither of which is taught, at least up through eighth grade here.

noted. but I took advanced history in 8th grade and we got all the way through the Vietnam war.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:07 am

But hey, back to the original point- Ohio, how many of your students- your high school students- could pass this eighth grade test? Hell, how many could get better than 40%? I'd say about 3 of them. I don't care what has been "taught to", if a high school senior can't pass an eighth grade test, there's a problem.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:15 am

Assa-I'll just post this here....
John D. Rockefeller's General Education Board -- this is their first mission statement: "In our dreams, people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions of intellectual and character education fade from their minds and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into men of learning or philosophers, or men of science. We have not to raise up from them authors, educators, poets or men of letters, great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, (he's really covering the whole gamut of employment isn't he?) statesmen, politicians, creatures of whom we have ample supply (whoever the pronoun we is meant to stand for there). The task is simple. We will organize children and teach them in an perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way".
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:18 am

....continuing...

The real purpose of modern schooling was announced by the legendary sociologist Edward Roth in his manifesto of 1906 called SOCIAL CONTROL. Your librarian will easily be able to get a copy of this book. In it Roth wrote, (I am quoting) "plans are underway to replace family, community and church with propaganda, mass-media and education (of course he meant schooling)...people are only little plastic lumps of dough". Another insider, H. H. Cadard, chairman for the Psychology Department at Princeton, called government schooling approvingly -- "the perfect organization of the hive with the anthill". Cadard wrote further, "standardized testing would cause the lower classes to confront their biological inferiority, sort of like wearing a dunce cap. In time that would discourage reproduction of the ants on the anthill".
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:20 am

and this paragraph is for Ohio...
The first curriculum was dumbed down, then national testing was inserted, next morality was weakened and finally between 1970 and 1974, teacher training in the U.S. was comprehensively and covertly revamped. In 1971, the U.S. Office of Education, now committed to gaining access to your private lives and thoughts, granted contracts for seven volumes of change agent studies to the Rand Corporation. Change agent training was launched with Federal funding under the EDUCATION PROFESSIONS DEVELOPMENT ACT. Soon afterward, a book appeared called THE CHANGE AGENT'S GUIDE TO INNOVATION IN EDUCATION. Grants were awarded to colleges for the training of change agents while further Rand documents like FACTORS AFFECTING CHANGE AGENTS PROJECTS continued to pour forth for implementation of teacher training courses. Machievelli had been modernized.


might want to do a little research on the changes my friend....


**edit to add link:
http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:48 am

Went ahead and pulled out this link (which is in the congressional record) just to back up what I am saying.
http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/marc_tucker/marc_tucker_letter.html

Students are not taught to think, they are taught to conform and find the "right" answer and to be "good employees".

Tucker's plan would change the mission of the schools from teaching children academic basics and knowledge to training them to serve the global economy in jobs selected by workforce boards. Nothing in this comprehensive plan has anything to do with teaching schoolchildren how to read, write, or calculate.


but read it for yourself, don't take my word for it...
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:52 am

so which will it be for you Ohio? Red pill or blue pill?
Image
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:51 am

Indaswamp wrote:care to comment on this...
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-asks-public-schools-to-ingore-bad-behavoir-by-black-students
Obama signs an executive order....
On July 26th Obama signed an executive order titled the "African American Education Initiative." The order essentially gives a green light for black students to misbehave in public schools. In two places, Obama's executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students. The order specifically calls on schools too "not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools."


change we can believe in.... :rolleyes:


Not surprised. It is pretty crazy when you see the number of black kids suspended compared to white and other kids. Something needs to be done, but I would say the opposite would work. Firm and fair, make them meet the standards other students are held to.
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Re: Hey Ohio- A test for today

Postby ohioboy » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:55 am

assateague wrote:But hey, back to the original point- Ohio, how many of your students- your high school students- could pass this eighth grade test? Hell, how many could get better than 40%? I'd say about 3 of them. I don't care what has been "taught to", if a high school senior can't pass an eighth grade test, there's a problem.

Wrong. Simply wrong.

If I teach the exact test kids will do amazing.
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