Just legalize it already......

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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Gunnysway » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:57 am

[quote="boney fingers"]If your growing it at home for personal use, your price will be the same not lower.

You assume they are growing it for personal use. I'm specifically speaking of guys that are currently growing for sale. If they are cheaper than the legal smoke shops, they will sell their product, make money and pay no taxes. They will not be regulated. By lowering the cost to a level that makes it not worth Cheeches time and effort, is how you stomp out the black market.

To retail it, you will be subject to tons of regulations from the government, you will also need insurance so that when the guy you sell to backs over the neighbors kid in the driveway or falls off a balcony , your covered; this all adds cost.

You assume customers care about any of that. They just want the cheapest, highest quality product available to them. Like I said. If the legal smoke shop is more expensive, someone somewhere is growing it and selling it for less to make a buck, and cheapest usually wins. A prime example is here, in Minnesota, they just raised the cigarette taxes... again. Now, people are heading to the border and buying in bulk to save a buck. I have a friend near Brainard MN who heads over to Fargo every 2 weeks and buys whatever he can get his hands on for him and his buddies up there, even though he is spending $80 in gas. My point is, people will do anything to save money, especially if they have an addiction, physical or mental.

Why? The product makes them "feel better".

Also, the neighbor kid is a **** and probably should have been smarter than to play in that driveway..
. :hammer:

You cant argue the value of legalization by using examples of illegal use.

How else can we talk about legalizing an illegal (in most states) product? We only have "illegal use" to draw from, and you must show a value (not as many people in the pen as an example) to begin to talk about legalization of illegalities . How can one form a hypothesis with out looking at the history from past to present?

Like I said earlier. I may be pi$$ing up a rope, but I may be right as well. Only time and litigation will tell.


Good talk fellas... we will see... I'm out


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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:27 pm

Gunnysway wrote:Economics 101. Supply is higher, demand is greater and virtually anyone can grow it.

Both supply and demand are a function of the cost. Part of that cost is the risk of getting caught. If instant execution were the penalty for getting caught with a single plant and we had an army of law enforcement and huge financial rewards for snitches, supply drops pretty precipitously from where it is today :yes:

The demand curve would be unchanged, but the large shift in the supply curve would cause a very large increase in the equilibrium price which would occur at a much lower point on the demand curve :yes:

Your underlying assumption is that the risk associated with growing it is a negligible part of the cost. I don't disagree that it is sadly very small despite the faux war on it. I'd like to change the relative cost of the legal market (currently infinite in most states, but not that large in other states that have legalized it) relative to the black market by creating a low price legal market and increase the cost of the black market. Home grown being part of the black market, but not the part I'm most concerned about. It is that part that maximizes profit by maximizing violence and maximizing sales to minors.

If you are selling cigarettes or alcohol, for the vast majority of suppliers, profits are maximized when violence is minimal as is direct sales to minors. We should do a better job on the indirect sales because clearly a black market exists, otherwise we wouldn't have so many minors smoking and drinking would we?

Gunnysway wrote:The black market will dictate the price on the open market, because the black market can only sell if it is cheaper than the open market prices. People generally go with the cheaper product.
And when it comes to a black market, a large part of the cost to suppliers and price to consumers is the risk of getting caught. Risk is probability of getting caught multiplied by the consequences of getting caught. If you have a 100% chance of getting caught and the consequences are negligible, there is no risk. Conversely if the consequences are harsh, but the perceived risk of getting caught are negligible, then again there is no perceived risk in engaging in that activity.

Of course that gap between perception and reality is what leads people to make adverse selection errors (Econ 201? :huh: )

Gunnysway wrote:And it's not all that expensive to begin with, to the point that kids can buy it with their allowances.
Again, a large part of that is that the expense associated with it being illegal, the non-monetary risk, is very low so all they really consider is the money. Of course, dumb kids will be dumb kids. I want the cost to the supplier to be far greater than the cost to a tavern owner for selling booze to minors. That will never be true as long as a large fraction of the market is supplied by black market suppliers. They aren't going to check ID's for fear of stiff penalties that could include loss of their entire business.

Home grown, self use, is going to dry up significantly if done right.

I've lived with potheads. Most of them have a difficult time with long term planning. When their regular supplies run short, their current stock often goes up in smoke :yes:
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Gunnysway » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:48 pm

:lol3:

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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby clampdaddy » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:27 pm

Corn, tomatoes, etc. are also easy to grow at home (and many folks do) but for the most part everyone still goes to the store to buy it. Same reason why McDonald's sells so many hamburgers. It's not because they are better than what you can make at home. Convenience. :thumbsup:
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Glimmerjim » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:42 pm

assateague wrote:
boney fingers wrote: Farmers have traditionally got away with very little liability in the food chain; processors on the other hand have been targeted because the industry is dominated by large corporations with lots of money



This is as it should be. Meat isn't contaminated on the hoof. If someone is spraying sewage water on their spinach, I could maybe see it, but it is the responsibility of the processor to ensure it is safe for humans. Hence the term "processor"- you process it from raw material into a usable, marketable good. If a carpenter miscuts a bunch of studs, forgets to nail the rafters on, and a house falls down, it's hardly the fault of the lumber company who delivered the wood.

That almost sounds like the voice of experience speaking! :lol3: :beer:
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Andy W » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:45 pm

Gunnysway wrote:Also, if you think people are worried about illegally growing it, you are sorely mistaken. Citizens all over the country are growing just a little for themselves. They live life unimpeded in this because the DEA and local law enforcement are busy looking for the big grows. The ones that take hundreds of pounds out of the market.

Not always, the local Gestapo nailed a friend of mine for three plants. We're safe here in KY now!! :mad:
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Glimmerjim » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:48 pm

Gunnysway wrote:It is not illegal to grow plants in Colorado...

http://blog.seattlepi.com/marijuana/201 ... flowering/

Or Washington if you have a "medical card"

http://www.brookings.edu/research/paper ... washington

And from 1970 to 2004, the citizens of Alaska could own, possess, grow and smoke their weed with ease of mind knowing the Constitution of The United States backed them up. Then the bureaucrats got involved and made it a crime.

They WILL be the next state to legalize marijuana... again.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/paper ... washington


My point is, you don't need a chemistry background to grow weed. There is no mixing of ingrediants,. There is no need for a process to pull out the THC. You grow it, cut it, dry it, trim it, and smoke it.

Not rocket science.

Also, if you think people are worried about illegally growing it, you are sorely mistaken. Citizens all over the country are growing just a little for themselves. They live life unimpeded in this because the DEA and local law enforcement are busy looking for the big grows. The ones that take hundreds of pounds out of the market.

Shoot... you probably have people on your street that have one, two, ten plants growing as we speak. Small time ops rarely get busted unless someone has very loose lips.

There are lots more than that it seems in my neighborhood. Go outside on a warm, late summer evening with a gentle wafting breeze, and I just don't feel right if I'm not in a tye-dye tee. scruffy levis and old tennis shoes with some little girls idea of a cool necklace of beads around my neck.
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Glimmerjim » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:00 pm

Andy W wrote:
Gunnysway wrote:Also, if you think people are worried about illegally growing it, you are sorely mistaken. Citizens all over the country are growing just a little for themselves. They live life unimpeded in this because the DEA and local law enforcement are busy looking for the big grows. The ones that take hundreds of pounds out of the market.

Not always, the local Gestapo nailed a friend of mine for three plants. We're safe here in KY now!! :mad:

Really! Is it still a big deal? Misdemeanor or felony? They quit really caring in most parts of CA about 10 years ago. A lot more than that if you figure Humboldt County. It's their biggest cash crop. It's just too easy to get away with now I would think,even where they still consider it a crime. They have odor filters, hydroponics, efficient and easily controllable light sources. The pendulum will just swing for a while as everyone indulges in their legal opportunity to use, then it will taper out. If that allure of "doing something wrong" is removed, the young teenage angst is taken out of the picture. It will be interesting to see what happens with traffic laws, child endangerment laws, what drug takes its place as the "socially acceptable" drug of choice for young cheerleaders to occasionally partake in, will there be sports prohibitions, Really a lot of unknowns. I've heard that there wsa glut of attorneys graduating for a while. This issue should keep quite a few busy for a while. It will be quite the social experiment.
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Gunnysway » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:53 pm

Allegedly...

But it makes me sleepy.

I like whiskey and beer better...

Allegedly...

(I case my mom's looking at this...) :hammer:
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby boney fingers » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:13 pm

corncob wrote:
assateague wrote:
boney fingers wrote: Farmers have traditionally got away with very little liability in the food chain; processors on the other hand have been targeted because the industry is dominated by large corporations with lots of money



This is as it should be. Meat isn't contaminated on the hoof. If someone is spraying sewage water on their spinach, I could maybe see it, but it is the responsibility of the processor to ensure it is safe for humans. Hence the term "processor"- you process it from raw material into a usable, marketable good. If a carpenter miscuts a bunch of studs, forgets to nail the rafters on, and a house falls down, it's hardly the fault of the lumber company who delivered the wood.

Assa spot on as always :clapping: maybe if i didnt smoke pot i would have thought of that, i doubt it :wink:



Except many food borne illnesses originate on the farm (salmonella and ecoli h1507); although that has noting to do with the point Im making. My point was that insurance is expensive when you have a legally run business that has any health risks associated with it and when dope is legal, those that do it legally will have plenty of cost due to liability and regulation. Those who chose to do it illegally to get around the cost of doing it legally are just proving my point.
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby boney fingers » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:40 pm

corncob wrote:
boney fingers wrote:
I assume nothing; I also own a farm. Farmers have traditionally got away with very little liability in the food chain; processors on the other hand have been targeted because the industry is dominated by large corporations with lots of money ( target rich environment for lawyers). I don't feel the need to regulate it, but unless you want it made available at the candy store, then it will be. My whole point is that it will not be significantly cheaper when available. Also, since you sell "organic" meat you would know that the use of that term is highly REGULATED; it is illegal to use the term in sales unless you are REGULATED. Also since you sell meat you know under almost all circumstances selling meat is highly regulated.

again you are assuming to much. I AM A FOOD PROCESSOR AND I KNOW FULLY ABOUT ITS LAW REGS AND ALL THE HOOPS I HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH TO USE THE WORD "ORGANIC" do you think you are the only person that knows anything????? big f ing deal you own a farm lots of people do.lost of little hobbie farms around me.(see i can assume just like you)why is it ok for you to say you do this but i cant or i donk know about this sh!T? is it because i smoke pot?!?!?! must be lonely up there on you pedastal
maybe talk about something i dont know anything about. jagwagon been in the business all my life and im not a snot nosed kid.
time for you to step off your high horse because there are many many packing houses and they seem to have there ducks in a row and dont find it hard to get insurance. most be a shady unsafe operation you got there :fingerhead:



Easy there big fella, I never said you didn't know anything, in fact I said just the opposite. I stated that since you sell "organic" meat YOU WOULD KNOW that the use of the term is highly REGULATED". Translation: since something as simple as the word organic is highly regulated and you have to jump through lots of hoops to use it (your words not mine) , then its a fair conclusion to think a mind altering drug that has numerous short term and long term ill effects would be regulated for those selling it legally. I am simple putting to rest the notion that some have, that if legalized you will be able to buy it anytime from anyone thus driving the price way down. As I stated many times before, I support legalization, but I don't want it available to my children ( I hear it could make them paranoid and apt to flying of the handle for no good reason).
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:22 am

boney fingers wrote:
corncob wrote:
assateague wrote:
boney fingers wrote: Farmers have traditionally got away with very little liability in the food chain; processors on the other hand have been targeted because the industry is dominated by large corporations with lots of money



This is as it should be. Meat isn't contaminated on the hoof. If someone is spraying sewage water on their spinach, I could maybe see it, but it is the responsibility of the processor to ensure it is safe for humans. Hence the term "processor"- you process it from raw material into a usable, marketable good. If a carpenter miscuts a bunch of studs, forgets to nail the rafters on, and a house falls down, it's hardly the fault of the lumber company who delivered the wood.

Assa spot on as always :clapping: maybe if i didnt smoke pot i would have thought of that, i doubt it :wink:



Except many food borne illnesses originate on the farm (salmonella and ecoli h1507); although that has noting to do with the point Im making. My point was that insurance is expensive when you have a legally run business that has any health risks associated with it and when dope is legal, those that do it legally will have plenty of cost due to liability and regulation. Those who chose to do it illegally to get around the cost of doing it legally are just proving my point.

Which is why the government has to make the cost of doing it illegally far higher than the cost of doing it legally. Doing exactly the opposite is one of my fears as to why it would fail if it ever got to that point. If a well established black market for tobacco existed and then they made it legal with the insane taxes we have today, it probably would have had little effect on the black market.

I believe with a legal alternative, it is possible to get society to support a more harsh treatment of the remaining criminals, to get them to report more suspected criminals, etc. Possible, although, it's government and their desire for money and control would seem to make it improbable.

It would still be better than today, but only marginally so.
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Andy W » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:56 am

Glimmerjim wrote: Misdemeanor or felony?

Misdemeanor. Court costs, lawyer fees & community service.
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Andy W » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:18 am

Obviously Corncob has the good stuff! :lol3: :thumbsup:
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby dudejcb » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:11 pm

Which is the fun high, sativa or indica?
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby jehler » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:02 pm

dudejcb wrote:Which is the fun high, sativa or indica?

LSD, cocaine, xanax and liquor was probably the funnest I remember
Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
Trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it,
Charge it, point it, zoom it, press it,
Snap it, work it, quick - erase it,
Write it, cut it, paste it, save it,
Load it, check it, quick - rewrite it,
Plug it, play it, burn it
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby wanapasaki » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:34 am

check out krokodil. Wait till this one hits the states
http://io9.com/5859291/krokodil-russias-designer-drug-that-will-eat-your-flesh

Don't look it up in google images :fingerpt:
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby aunt betty » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:30 am

It is legal when prescribed by a licensed physician. When Methamphetimine was first made it was considered a wonder drug and was prescribed for many common ailments.
The Nazi blitzkrieg ran on meth and petroleum.

That was over 70 years ago.
The new drugs are safe, non-adictive, and work.@
We're modern now and dont make bad drugs anymore.@
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Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby ohioboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:13 pm

wanapasaki wrote:check out krokodil. Wait till this one hits the states
http://io9.com/5859291/krokodil-russias-designer-drug-that-will-eat-your-flesh

Don't look it up in google images :fingerpt:


Old news.

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