U.S.- War with Syria?

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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Chilidawg » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:58 pm

A military strike at Assad's government IS ACTING AS AL QAIDA'S AIR FORCE.


So, was the gas attack justified?
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby wanapasaki » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:14 pm

It doesn't need to be justified. It's their country and it's their issue just as Iraq and afghanistans were their own. I say we stop continuing what the conservatives started and mind our own business. We have financial issues and such we need to adress here before we concern ourselves with the welfare of such countries in the Middle East that have very little concern for their own social and economical structure. That's my opinion.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:16 pm

Chilidawg wrote:
A military strike at Assad's government IS ACTING AS AL QAIDA'S AIR FORCE.


So, was the gas attack justified?

which one?
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby beretta24 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:16 pm

wanapasaki wrote:It doesn't need to be justified. It's their country and it's their issue just as Iraq and afghanistans were their own. I say we stop continuing what the conservatives started and mind our own business. We have financial issues and such we need to adress here before we concern ourselves with the welfare of such countries in the Middle East that have very little concern for their own social and economical structure. That's my opinion.

Both repubs and dems made it their issue last time, just as both sides are doing now. Its just more convenient for people to think Bush voted for it alone.
Last edited by beretta24 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Chilidawg » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:21 pm

wanapasaki wrote:It doesn't need to be justified. It's their country and it's their issue just as Iraq and afghanistans were their own. I say we stop continuing what the conservatives started and mind our own business. We have financial issues and such we need to adress here before we concern ourselves with the welfare of such countries in the Middle East that have very little concern for their own social and economical structure. That's my opinion.


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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Chilidawg » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:22 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
Chilidawg wrote:
A military strike at Assad's government IS ACTING AS AL QAIDA'S AIR FORCE.


So, was the gas attack justified?

which one?


Any one.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:23 pm

Chilidawg wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
Chilidawg wrote:
A military strike at Assad's government IS ACTING AS AL QAIDA'S AIR FORCE.


So, was the gas attack justified?

which one?


Any one.

by who?
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Chilidawg » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:27 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
Chilidawg wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
Chilidawg wrote:
A military strike at Assad's government IS ACTING AS AL QAIDA'S AIR FORCE.


So, was the gas attack justified?

which one?


Any one.

by who?


First Base.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:28 pm

seriously? It matters who launched the gas attack. That is why I asked you "who".
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Chilidawg » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:43 pm

Indaswamp wrote:seriously? It matters who launched the gas attack. That is why I asked you "who".


I thought we were talking about the one that Assad launched the other day.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:45 pm

Chilidawg wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:seriously? It matters who launched the gas attack. That is why I asked you "who".


I thought we were talking about the one that Assad launched the other day.

exactly..."WHO" launched it? I'm not convinced he did it, neither are the inspectors that searched the site.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:13 pm

Exactly! You do not attack a legal sovereign or his troops over a gas attack when you can't prove he ordered the attack.

We shouldn't be involved either way. Syria is not a signer of the treaty banning the use of gas. That means they use it wether we like it or not.

We need to butt out of this and let the Syrians settle things.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:20 pm

Something to chew on....
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby slowshooter » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:45 pm

vincentpa wrote:
slowshooter wrote:Syrian chicks are hot. That's why we need to invade. :lol3:


We have good friends that are Syrian, actually from the country. Some Christian but most muslim. I've been to a wedding too. Some of the girls are hot! There's a Syrian restaurant down the street from me. They are Christians. The girl who works there is hooooooooooot!



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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Glimmerjim » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:37 am

assateague wrote:
wanapasaki wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:That is simply not true. The oath does not force you to obey an unlawful order and places you under direct responsibility for your actions while under orders.


The oath is to : "defend the constitution of the united states, against all enemies foreign and domestic and to uphold all orders given to me by my appointed officers." Off the top of my head, but it was years ago that I had to swear it. How will it be unconstitutional?




This argument worked well at Nuremberg

Apparently not by what I've ben reading the last couple days. They are going after them. That was what, 68 years ago? Say they were 14 at the youngest...that makes their crime 82 years ago. I'm sure they've punished themselves more over 68 years than any method we could devise to impose justice. This isn't for justice, victim finality, or retribution. It's evil politics attempting to sway popularity. Give it a rest and make plans for the future, not apologies for the past.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Glimmerjim » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:39 am

ScaupHunter wrote:If WW3 breaks out with Obummer in office I am going to sit back and laugh until I can't move.
That WOULD be a knee-slapper, scaup.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Glimmerjim » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:48 am

assateague wrote: And I guess wasabi has never watched A Few Good Men :lol3:

Too bad. Nicholson just said the acting gig is history for him. I heard he got a good offer for "Sham Wow" endorsements! Wow! What a iconic presence to suddenly disappear from the screen! He said he has developed memory problems and can't remember the lines anymore. At least he doen't think he can. Doesn't really recall for sure! :lol3: He and Robert DeNiro, and Scorcese, and Johnny Depp, and Tom Waits and John Belushi used to keep some pretty wild company when certain musically oriented folks happened to be in town!
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby TomKat » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:31 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
TomKat wrote:What ever it is, its WRONG and a violation of the constitution
Which section of the Constitution is being violated?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

Bad decisions are not by definition unconstitutional.

Is your interpretation that the Commander in Chief cannot order a single shot fired without a declaration of war from Congress? Where's the line in your opinion?

BTW, the bad decision he made was when he made the half-empty threat about there being a red line if Syria used chemical weapons. He has tried desperately to make it a totally empty threat, but the Syrians have disregarded him as weak and impotent and gased their people.

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So now Obama must try to save face by killing some more of the Syrian people that the leaders don't care a lick about. That'll show Assad. :rolleyes:

I don't know what everybody is getting worried about. A few cruise missiles, some explosions for the TV, a TV appearance by Obama talking about how he has degraded their capacity or some such thing, and we move on, problem unsolved.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9808/20/us.strikes.02/index.html?_s=PM:US
American cruise missiles pounded sites in Afghanistan and Sudan Thursday in retaliation for the deadly bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania on August 7.

"Let our actions today send this message loud and clear -- there are no expendable American targets," U.S. President Clinton said in a televised address to the American people Thursday evening. "There will be no sanctuary for terrorists. We will defend our people, our interests and our values."

Something like this, but edited for the use of chemical weapons on the Syrians.


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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:02 am

I'm not sold on the idea that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt who launched the chem. weapons either, jeez, it's such a cluster** over there.
But then again, that info could be classified for one reason or another.

Interested to hear ya'lls input on this-
Keep hearing how "we were lied to" by Bush when we found no weapons of mass dest. in Iraq.
Why on this earth doesn't anyone ever consider that perhaps Bush used whatever intel that was provided to him before making a decision, and that the possibility exists THOSE weapons were MOVED into Syria or Iran prior to our campaign :huh:
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Andy W » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:46 am

Indaswamp wrote:Something to chew on....


That was interesting. How the heck are we supposed to know who's telling the truth?
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby talltimber » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:01 am

I assume none are, other than a selected snippet of it occasionally that suits their agenda.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby assateague » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:06 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
assateague wrote:
wanapasaki wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:That is simply not true. The oath does not force you to obey an unlawful order and places you under direct responsibility for your actions while under orders.


The oath is to : "defend the constitution of the united states, against all enemies foreign and domestic and to uphold all orders given to me by my appointed officers." Off the top of my head, but it was years ago that I had to swear it. How will it be unconstitutional?




This argument worked well at Nuremberg

Apparently not by what I've ben reading the last couple days. They are going after them. That was what, 68 years ago? Say they were 14 at the youngest...that makes their crime 82 years ago. I'm sure they've punished themselves more over 68 years than any method we could devise to impose justice. This isn't for justice, victim finality, or retribution. It's evil politics attempting to sway popularity. Give it a rest and make plans for the future, not apologies for the past.



It was sarcasm, GJ.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby assateague » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:07 am

wanapasaki wrote:It doesn't need to be justified. It's their country and it's their issue just as Iraq and afghanistans were their own. I say we stop continuing what the conservatives started and mind our own business. We have financial issues and such we need to adress here before we concern ourselves with the welfare of such countries in the Middle East that have very little concern for their own social and economical structure. That's my opinion.



Exactly.


And for the record, I don't expect this sort of agreement to happen very often. :lol3:
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby assateague » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:07 am

Chilidawg wrote:
A military strike at Assad's government IS ACTING AS AL QAIDA'S AIR FORCE.


So, was the gas attack justified?



Yes.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:08 am

swampbilly 1980 wrote:Why on this earth doesn't anyone ever consider that perhaps Bush used whatever intel that was provided to him before making a decision
Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq war as a U.S. Senator. I've heard rumors that she may have had inside access to a person that would have been as knowledgeable as President Bush on the intelligence and had even ordered an attack Iraq because of their WMD programs. If this is true, it is either very supportive of Bush or very damning of Hillary. If she had access to the previous President and therefore knew it was not reliable, wow, why did she vote for the war? :huh:

Even if it is 100% irrefutable that Bastard al-Assol order the chemical attack, I'm not sure we should attack them.

What would it take for Obama to make this claim?

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Does taking out his regime get us anywhere? Does leaving his regime in get us anywhere? What if we leave him in place, he defeats the rebels and then exacts retribution by massacring 10 times as many people, but this time with bullets and not gas? Would our in action not be a de facto sanctioning of massacre as long as it's not with gas? We don't care if you kill your people, you just have to use the approved methods. Yeah, that puts us on the moral high ground :rolleyes:

I get the counter argument too. It is most definitely a screwed up situation. All choices as laid out are very bad. Doing nothing is a bad choice, but I don't see a solid argument that it is not the least bad option.

I think the best options are not on the table. Granted they are bigger risk, but they have the potential to actually accomplish something. I just don't think we will commit to them. At this point, I believe that the best thing for America is that a severely weakened Assad remains in power. So we make that happen or we do nothing and hope that it happens. Everything else in the middle just seems totally half-assed with all downside and no upside.
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