U.S.- War with Syria?

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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby MODuckkiller » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:53 pm

beretta24 wrote:
MODuckkiller wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
Chilidawg wrote:
beretta24 wrote:Riddle me this chili, why are we getting involved? Because 1400 were killed with chem weapons?


Because ultimately if the US and the rest of the world dont get together try to stop this war, the death toll will be 1.4 million.

If you haven't noticed the rest of the world said no thanks. Where is our greatest ally? That's right, they walked away.

You think Russia got involved for any other reason than to protect their Syrian interests?

Not to mention we've let millions die in Africa without lifting a finger. Where was the US and the world then?

The UN was/is/and will be involved minimally.
And the USA was involved in Africa at one point in time as well.
Sooooooo......... :hammer: :hammer:

The US provided squat to the MILLIONS killed in Africa in the past decades. I hope you're being sarcastic.

Wait for millions to die and then jump on what is now estimated at closer to 1000 dead from chemical weapons...ya I see the consistency there. @

There's more to it than that.

Have you ever seen the movie "Black Hawk Down"?
I would suggest other sources of credible information, but I feel this action movie best suits your level of attentiveness to details.
I'll give you a hint, it's based on a true story, of US involvement in Somalia, a country in.....

AFRICA

:eek:
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby beretta24 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:27 pm

Sudan and Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:48 pm

beretta24 wrote:Sudan and Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.

Yep...ethnic cleansing and Islamic conquest....
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:04 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
beretta24 wrote:Sudan and Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.

Yep...ethnic cleansing and Islamic conquest....


due to imperialism by Europeans.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:06 pm

ohioboy wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
beretta24 wrote:Sudan and Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.

Yep...ethnic cleansing and Islamic conquest....


due to imperialism by Europeans.

Huh? wut?????

explain that one for me.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby MODuckkiller » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:41 pm

ohioboy wrote:....Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.

The UN and Belgium both were heavily involved in trying to find peace in Rwanda. Hind sight is 20/20, but you ought to get your facts straight.
beretta24 wrote:due to imperialism by Europeans.

You lost me.....
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:35 am

MODuckkiller wrote:
ohioboy wrote:....Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.

The UN and Belgium both were heavily involved in trying to find peace in Rwanda. Hind sight is 20/20, but you ought to get your facts straight.
But they were probably "trying" in a way that was doomed to failure. They were probably stuck in this mindset that the only way to find peace is for the side that is willing to hack the other side to death for no reason other than they don't like them to sit down with those people that they feel entitled to hack to death and come to an understanding.

Maybe we could have solved our slavery injustice without violence by getting the slave owners and the slaves to negotiate. What would those terms have looked like? We have a right to be free. No you don't. OK, how about you are a slave until you are too old and then we will set you free. Counter offer, we remain slaves until we are 25. 50, 30, 45, 40, OK done.

You cannot negotiate with evil, but the U.N. which allows evil to have a seat at the table by definition believes that you can in fact negotiate in good faith with evil. That's why no matter how hard they "try" the results are nearly always as effective as their attempts in Rwanda. But hey, they tried. Isn't that all that matters no matter how many millions ultimately die.

Would Hitler have a vote in the U.N.? Of course. Do we need to say any more about the fatal flaw of this organization?
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby beretta24 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:44 am

MODuckkiller wrote:
ohioboy wrote:....Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.

The UN and Belgium both were heavily involved in trying to find peace in Rwanda. Hind sight is 20/20, but you ought to get your facts straight.
beretta24 wrote:due to imperialism by Europeans.

You lost me.....

The UN and Belgium? :lol3:

That's not we. I said we, as in the US. And I said did "largely nothing", otherwise a million wouldn't be dead. We could have destroyed the aggressors with relatively little effort. The Clinton administration made a conscious decision to stay out of it. Why? By the way I bet Bush would've done the same thing. Why?
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby vincentpa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:16 am

beretta24 wrote:Sudan and Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.


You have to add Burundi, the Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia, The Ivory Coast, Uganda, Ethiopia/Eritrea.

Millions dies while we sat aside.

BTW, the US went to Somalia as a humanitarian mission, not to fight their civil war.

Perhaps MODcukkiller isn't as attentive as he thinks he is?
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby vincentpa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:28 am

MODuckkiller wrote:
ohioboy wrote:....Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.

The UN and Belgium both were heavily involved in trying to find peace in Rwanda. Hind sight is 20/20, but you ought to get your facts straight.
beretta24 wrote:due to imperialism by Europeans.

You lost me.....



Please define "heavily involved." As I remember it, everyone skeddadled when the Hutu mobs came a hacking with machetes. The Hutus were by and large not organized. They just outnumbered the Tutsis and indiscriminantly killed them. The mob was able to be defeated later by an organized Tutsi force that amazingly showed the Hutus mercy after what they had done.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ohioboy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:47 am

ok, so i am now quoted as saying things i did not in the above posts.

Inda, I said due to European Imperialism because a lot of the problems-and power vacuums that exist or existed-were due to the Europeans imperializing Africa. They left and the whole continent and periferal regions were ripe for the picking. Last man standing wins.

IF Europe was still controling them, the issues would be minimal. Remember that before the Europeans showed up, Islam was mostly a North African thing, and was tolerant of other religions. That was the Ottomans. A large power or group of powers that oppress can be effective. Now do we want to be that power? Not at this point according to the polls.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ohioboy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:49 am

vincentpa wrote:
beretta24 wrote:Sudan and Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.


You have to add Burundi, the Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia, The Ivory Coast, Uganda, Ethiopia/Eritrea.

Millions dies while we sat aside.

BTW, the US went to Somalia as a humanitarian mission, not to fight their civil war.

Perhaps MODcukkiller isn't as attentive as he thinks he is?

and Humanitarian will likely be in the wording if we do anything.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby vincentpa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:57 am

ohioboy wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
beretta24 wrote:Sudan and Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.


You have to add Burundi, the Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia, The Ivory Coast, Uganda, Ethiopia/Eritrea.

Millions dies while we sat aside.

BTW, the US went to Somalia as a humanitarian mission, not to fight their civil war.

Perhaps MODcukkiller isn't as attentive as he thinks he is?

and Humanitarian will likely be in the wording if we do anything.



completely different circumstances that are wholly unrelated. Somalia was truly a humanitarian mission under GHWB. The mission crept under Clinton.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ohioboy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:39 am

vincentpa wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
beretta24 wrote:Sudan and Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.


You have to add Burundi, the Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia, The Ivory Coast, Uganda, Ethiopia/Eritrea.

Millions dies while we sat aside.

BTW, the US went to Somalia as a humanitarian mission, not to fight their civil war.

Perhaps MODcukkiller isn't as attentive as he thinks he is?

and Humanitarian will likely be in the wording if we do anything.



completely different circumstances that are wholly unrelated. Somalia was truly a humanitarian mission under GHWB. The mission crept under Clinton.


poisin gas+dead people=humanitarian reason. that seems very simple to me, maybe i am wrong....
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby MODuckkiller » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:49 am

Since when did the US become a world wide police force? If finding peace through political means doesn't work. (Which like I said, hind sight is 20/20) Then what more can we do? Spend tax payer's dollars on military strikes? Send our boys over there for policing action and put them in harms way for something the US has no interest in? How well would THAT go over?
Can I have you recall how well our policing action did in a similar situation, in Vietnam? We never even declared war, and thousands of Americans lost their lives. So if you don't understand the hesitance a mere 10-15 years later to get involved in a cultural conflict between the Hutus and the Tutsis, or some 40 years later in Syria, both countries are ones in which we have never had any interests in, then I might as well cease trying to raise a point, for it appears I am speaking to a wall.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby beretta24 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:12 am

MODuckkiller wrote:Since when did the US become a world wide police force? If finding peace through political means doesn't work. (Which like I said, hind sight is 20/20) Then what more can we do? Spend tax payer's dollars on military strikes? Send our boys over there for policing action and put them in harms way for something the US has no interest in? How well would THAT go over?
Can I have you recall how well our policing action did in a similar situation, in Vietnam? We never even declared war, and thousands of Americans lost their lives. So if you don't understand the hesitance a mere 10-15 years later to get involved in a cultural conflict between two people in which we don't largely have any interests in, then I might as well cease trying to raise a point, for it appears I am speaking to a wall.


Who's arguing for military intervention? Not me. Pretty much just the Pres, Secretary of State and some of the Congressional leadership on both sides. But the process to get to a potentially diplomatic solution has been a clusterfuck, and has the US looking foolish.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:15 am

Syria was exactly zero threat to our national interest until Odumbo interfered in their Civil War. Now they are a direct threat due to his interference. We ran into a lot of Syrian's in northern Iraq while I was over there. To a man they loved Americans. They were glad we were pounding the Arabs into submission. Assyria, and prior battles, vengeance in the culture things that Muslims have going on there. Syria is not in our area of influence. Syria is of no interest to America as a nation or as a power.

Dead is just that dead. What 1,400 people were killed by a SUSPECTED government gas attack with no proof it wasn't the rebels. How many people would have died in that neighborhood if we had dropped a MOAB on them? Closer to 6,000 to 10,000 would be the answer in a populated area. But that is ok because it isn't a nuke, and it isn't gas. The hypocrisy runs deep in this thread. So now lets spend 10 to 20 millions to lob a few missiles in and try to kill more Syrians. That is gonna work great, because unsupported air attacks have always changed the fates of war. Missile attacks alone is the tactical equivalent of swatting two mosquitos in an Alabama swamp.

We have no interest in Syria, we have no right to be in Syria, We have no legal standing to interfere in Syria. We need to get the hell out of their affairs and let the King crush the rebels ( Al Quaida ) and get back to leading his country.

Obama is playing Don Quixote here. Anyone got a windmill he can chase closer to home?
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby MODuckkiller » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:24 am

ScaupHunter wrote:Syria was exactly zero threat to our national interest until Odumbo interfered in their Civil War. Now they are a direct threat due to his interference. We ran into a lot of Syrian's in northern Iraq while I was over there. To a man they loved Americans. They were glad we were pounding the Arabs into submission. Assyria, and prior battles, vengeance in the culture things that Muslims have going on there. Syria is not in our area of influence. Syria is of no interest to America as a nation or as a power.

Dead is just that dead. What 1,400 people were killed by a SUSPECTED government gas attack with no proof it wasn't the rebels. How many people would have died in that neighborhood if we had dropped a MOAB on them? Closer to 6,000 to 10,000 would be the answer in a populated area. But that is ok because it isn't a nuke, and it isn't gas. The hypocrisy runs deep in this thread. So not lets spend 10 to 20 millions to lob a few missiles in and try to kill more Syrians. That is gonna work great, because unsupported air attacks have always changed the fates of war. :lol3: Missile attacks alone is the tactical equivalent of swatting two mosquitos in an Alabama swamp. :fingerhead:

We have no interest in Syria, we have no right to be in Syria, We have no legal standing to interfere in Syria. We need to get the hell out of their affairs and let the King crush the rebels ( Al Quaida ) and get back to leading his country.

THIS :bow:
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby vincentpa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:58 am

ohioboy wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
beretta24 wrote:Sudan and Rwanda...over a million killed. That's what I was talking about.

We largely ignored it.


You have to add Burundi, the Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia, The Ivory Coast, Uganda, Ethiopia/Eritrea.

Millions dies while we sat aside.

BTW, the US went to Somalia as a humanitarian mission, not to fight their civil war.

Perhaps MODcukkiller isn't as attentive as he thinks he is?

and Humanitarian will likely be in the wording if we do anything.



completely different circumstances that are wholly unrelated. Somalia was truly a humanitarian mission under GHWB. The mission crept under Clinton.


poisin gas+dead people=humanitarian reason. that seems very simple to me, maybe i am wrong....


Why yes. You are wrong. By your logic, any war constitutes a humanitarian reason for intervention because by definition warfare leaves many people dead. Extending your logic, the US should involve itself in every war on the planet to end human suffering caused by people dying.

The US went into Somalia to provide mostly food and water to a nation where people were starving to death because of the effects of a devastating civil war. The US did not pick sides and was not a combatant in that conflict. For most of the time spent in Somalia, the US exceeded the humanitarian mandate when the mission crept under Clinton. The result was 19 dead Americans and two Blackhawk helicopters shot down.

Apparently, the US lost credibility after that incident. Ask Osama bi Laden, Saddam Hussein, Al-Zarquawi and the other fools that thought we had. The US is only as credible as its current leader. Barry made the right call with OBL but that seems to be his one-off. The rest of the world has now caught on. Barry has been weighed, measured and found wanting. With this last fiasco in Syria, he has made himself and worse our country look like irresolute, vascilitating, bumbling idiots. There has never been an American president so humiliated on the world stage as Barry was by Putin. I don't revel in this. This is terrible for our country because it weakens our strategic hand internationally. Barry has three more years in office. It may turn out to be a long three years.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:17 am

Three very long years.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ohioboy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:48 am

Vincent-where did i say i wanted war? you said humanitarian-right? in somolia-right? if it is going on elsewhere is it not hypocritical if we dont intervene?

i dont think we should go into Syria, but it does suck when we pick one and not the other. Yes haters, i get it, i get it. we cant fix them all. just making a statement.


And Vincent, you should look into Somalia a little more. we did not go to give much food at all. we went to stop the hijacking of it by waring druglords. if you have food, you have control. we were there to make sure it was getting distributed by the UN.

finally, the US lost credibility because we turned tail and ran. the american people said enough when they saw dead americans on cnn on easter sunday-clinton responded by listening to the people. lets hope obama does the same. the "bad guys" you listed were all under control during the cold war by the presense of the soviets. again, check into this some more.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby Gunnysway » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:11 am

ohioboy wrote:Vincent-where did i say i wanted war? you said humanitarian-right? in somolia-right? if it is going on elsewhere is it not hypocritical if we dont intervene?

i dont think we should go into Syria, but it does suck when we pick one and not the other. Yes haters, i get it, i get it. we cant fix them all. just making a statement.


And Vincent, you should look into Somalia a little more. we did not go to give much food at all. we went to stop the hijacking of it by waring druglords. if you have food, you have control. we were there to make sure it was getting distributed by the UN.

WHY THE F^CK DO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE U.N. IS DOING IT'S JOB!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

WHY THE F^CK DO WE NEED TO NAG THE U. EFFING N. TO ENGAGE IN THESE ISSUES!?!?!?!?!?!?

WHY THE F^CK DOES IT SEEM THE U.N. HAS TO WAIT FOR THE U.S. TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PISS ANT COUNTRIES DESTROYING IT'S OWN CITIZENS BEFORE THEY SPEAK UP!?!?!?!?!?!?!

and lastly

WHY THE F^CK DO WE PAY MILLIONS TO AN ORGANIZATION OF AMERICAN HATERS, WHEN THEY DO NOTHING BUT GIVE US S#!T ABOUT OUR COUNTRIES POLICIES AND LAWS?!?!?!?!?

EFF THE U.N.!!!!!

Whew... that felt good...

EFF THE U.N.!!!!!


finally, the US lost credibility because we turned tail and ran. the american people said enough when they saw dead americans on cnn on easter sunday-clinton responded by listening to the people. lets hope obama does the same. the "bad guys" you listed were all under control during the cold war by the presense of the soviets. again, check into this some more.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:52 am

The US lost credibility then because Clinton was a idiot and took the cowards way out which made us look the fool. We are losing credibility now because Obama is a fool and is a finger pointing coward. Anyone starting to see the pattern? Same piece of spit leadership method. Same stupidity, just a different format and timing.

We all know the definition of insanity. It is being exhibited perfectly by our Idiot in Chief.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby beretta24 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:58 am

ScaupHunter wrote:The US lost credibility then because Clinton was a idiot and took the cowards way out which made us look the fool. We are losing credibility now because Obama is a fool and is a finger pointing coward. Anyone starting to see the pattern? Same piece of spit leadership method. Same stupidity, just a different format and timing.

We all know the definition of insanity. It is being exhibited perfectly by our Idiot in Chief.

You saying Clinton should have taken different action? I don't see a parallel. Obama inserted the US into this mess unnecessarily on his own.
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Re: U.S.- War with Syria?

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:15 am

Clinton took a humanitarian mission that was a huge success and turned it into a fiasco. He commited the single worst sin in a military environment, he allowed mission creep to occur. No where in the history of the American military has mission creep ever turned out well. Vietnam is an excellent example of this.

Clinton tried to punish the war lords and become a nation maker. He failed at every basic step of planning a military operation. He did not have the right people or equipment in place, or nearly enough of either. He did not have a solid plan. He did not have alternate plans when the SHTF. He did not have the resolve to see the new mission work to completion.

That is what happens when you let a politician with no military experience run the military. We are seeing it again with Odumbo. Stupidity and hubris compounded by ignorance always leads to failure.
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