I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby WTN10 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:11 am

I'm willing to bet if you pointed out a group of conservatives that did not despise him, BDD2 would argue that they were actually progressives and not "real" conservatives, a la Flew's "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:19 am

WTN10 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:The short answer is "because they didn't like black people".

I'm surprised at how little conservatives around here want to embrace the defining characteristic of their philosophy. To wit, skepticism, or outright rejection, of change. It's good and bad, but not if you only can see the one side of it. Then it's just bad


Is that broad brush you're painting with heavy? Do you need help holding it?

I'm pretty sure I'm coming right out of the textbook (dictionary, even) definition. Conservatives resist change, and despite all the changes and political seismic shifts we will always see in philosophical orientations of this personal and emotional nature, resistance to change has remained the defining characteristic of a conservative
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:30 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:Conservatives despised the man, of whatever party, as I pointed out.
That would be those New England conservatives so despised by most conservatives of which you are implicitly replying :yes: I've heard some of those New England conservatives are so conservative that they describe themselves as severely conservative :thumbsup:

BTW, if my opinions are to be judged by that of the New England Republicans in the '60's then BDD2's must be judged by the opinions of Democrats in the south during that same time period. How is that not fair and we know liberals aspire to fairness?

Given that I was not even born until the 70's, albeit a product of the 60's, I don't wish to be compared to the prevailing opinions of that time. It is just plain silly.

Right is right and wrong is wrong and left is just loony. The sins of your literal or intellectual ancestors are not yours to bear. Of course, liberals seem obsessed with assigning the sins of the past to their political enemies and enemies seems to be the clear way they view it, it's certainly not their fellow equal American trying to solve problems and amicably resolve differences of opinion.

National Socialist German Workers Party - yep sins assigned to the right.
Democrat segregationists - yep all dixiecrats turned Republican and sins assigned to the right
Democrat slave holders - yep, hated the Republicans, but really just future Republicans so sins assigned to the right
Communists, you name it - Nothing but future Image right-wingers and any similarity in public policy is pure coincidental and absolutely without a doubt irrelevant

The vast majority of self-described liberals and conservative have never gave any serious intellectual thought to the results of their policies beyond how it helps the home team. Of course, when your ideas suck the worst in practice, the only way for the home team to win is point out the failures of the other team and disregard the failures of your team.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby assateague » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:32 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:The short answer is "because they didn't like black people".

I'm surprised at how little conservatives around here want to embrace the defining characteristic of their philosophy. To wit, skepticism, or outright rejection, of change. It's good and bad, but not if you only can see the one side of it. Then it's just bad



Not this one.


As for change, I wholeheartedly embrace it, if it is for a purpose external to itself. But this nonsensical "change for the sake of change" is just stupid, and usually detrimental as well. In another thread, I was just laughing at liberals for their clinging to the "mom and pop" business model, in order to badmouth Walmart. So you're saying that they are conservatives, because they don't like that particular Walmart change? Better go tell those clinging libs.


And to the point here, I think MLK was the last preacher who was admired by the left. If most today knew he was a preacher, they'd probably sic the ACLU on him, what with declaring a holiday for a religious figure, and all.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:51 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:how little conservatives around here want to embrace the defining characteristic of their philosophy. To wit, skepticism, or outright rejection, of change.
:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

I missed that. You believe that the defining characteristic of conservatism is outright rejection of change. :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

That's like saying liberals blindly demand change in all cases.

Skepticism of change is just good common sense.

Individual human's are complex. Societies are infintely more so.

Society is built upon generations, centuries, millennium of trial and error. Vastly more errors than success. Change may very well be disastrous. If society is doing reasonably well as the United States is, there is a huge down side so being cautious about changes to an unbelievably complex system like society is nothing but good old fashioned common sense.

It seems to takes an egomaniac to be a true liberal these days. They have no doubt that they can change massively complex systems they know little to nothing about, so no reason to proceed with caution, just pass a massive bill that nobody read and no worries.

However, if there is true injustice, like slavery, segregation, etc. Screw caution. It's not an argument for injustice.

Yeah, I know, liberals see true injustice in everything whether it is the arrest of criminals that no one disputes committed the crimes because they or some ancestor of theirs suffered some legitimate injustice and therefore two injustices are only fair or some such nonsense where justice does not include individual responsibility for their actions.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby boney fingers » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:17 am

Again, JFK, was he conservative? No, was he from the south No. Did he hate MLK? Yes. Seems it is your legacy not mine.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby WTN10 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:19 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
WTN10 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:The short answer is "because they didn't like black people".

I'm surprised at how little conservatives around here want to embrace the defining characteristic of their philosophy. To wit, skepticism, or outright rejection, of change. It's good and bad, but not if you only can see the one side of it. Then it's just bad


Is that broad brush you're painting with heavy? Do you need help holding it?

I'm pretty sure I'm coming right out of the textbook (dictionary, even) definition. Conservatives resist change, and despite all the changes and political seismic shifts we will always see in philosophical orientations of this personal and emotional nature, resistance to change has remained the defining characteristic of a conservative


This is the dumbest thing you've ever written.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby WTN10 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:48 am

Since conservatives resist change under your definition, conservatives now must support Obamacare and oppose its repeal since doing so would constitute a change and they just don't want any of that.

There's so much I can do with "The Dumbest Thing BDD2 Ever Said." It's a veritable gold mine for nonsense.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:03 pm

That's some of the most twisted thinking you've ever thrown out here, WTN10, but leave us not get sidetracked (I see what you're doing there)
Please show me the conservatives of the day who embraced the cause of Civil Rights as espoused by the man you now admire, the good Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King. No politicians now, we know they're all scum, and would embrace either Jim Crow or total integration if it would serve their ends.
And just to avert any more whining about a broad brush.......I'll amend my premise to assert merely that the vast, overwhelming majority of conservatives despised King, to the point of applauding his assassin
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby WTN10 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:06 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:And just to avert any more whining about a broad brush.......I'll amend my premise to assert merely that the vast, overwhelming majority of conservatives despised King, to the point of applauding his assassin


Please point me to the study which supports this conclusion. Your anecdotes are biased and involve a narrow sample.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby WTN10 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:07 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:That's some of the most twisted thinking you've ever thrown out here, WTN10...


I'm just parodying yours. Of the two of us, there's only one advancing nonsense seriously, and as I just noted I'm the one who's kidding.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:18 pm

I never knew that liberals oppose the conservation of natural resources. They support nothing but a liberal use of those resource and oppose the conserving them.

They had a dream.

Image

And that is all it was and now that they have woken up, they and are starting to see reality.

Image

They are finally realizing one of the actually core truths on which our philosophy is founded, regardless of what variation of conservatism you subscribe and that is that hope does not come from the mouth of politicians nor their actions in Washington.

These realization is not in conflict with the core philosophy of conservatives, but it shakes the foundation of liberals idea to the core because their solution to all problems are to empower politicians and bureaucrats which does nothing but magnify the consequences of corruption and incompetence and even they in their unlimited brilliance are not able to select the corrupt and/or incompetent charlatan politicians from the brilliant leaders needed for their system to work in practice. If even they in their near limited brilliance cannot spot the charlatans, how on earth can the people of Detroit do so and therefore isn't that the ultimate endpoint of their system of empowering a handful of people? Sooner or later, a charlatan will get the power and at that point, the harm will far exceed all potential benefits. Obama is the embodiment of their fatal flaw, but as bad as he has been, he pails in comparison to the worst that is possible.

Image

And there you have it. Reducto ad Hitlerum
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:20 pm

WTN10 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:That's some of the most twisted thinking you've ever thrown out here, WTN10...


I'm just parodying yours. Of the two of us, there's only one advancing nonsense seriously, and as I just noted I'm the one who's kidding.

Well then allow me to very seriously, non-nonsensibly reiterate my question. What conservatives of the day supported the Rev?
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:21 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:I never knew that liberals oppose the conservation of natural resources. They support nothing but a liberal use of those resource and oppose the conserving them.

They had a dream.

Image

And that is all it was and now that they have woken up, they and are starting to see reality.

Image

They are finally realizing one of the actually core truths on which our philosophy is founded, regardless of what variation of conservatism you subscribe and that is that hope does not come from the mouth of politicians nor their actions in Washington.

These realization is not in conflict with the core philosophy of conservatives, but it shakes the foundation of liberals idea to the core because their solution to all problems are to empower politicians and bureaucrats which does nothing but magnify the consequences of corruption and incompetence and even they in their unlimited brilliance are not able to select the corrupt and/or incompetent charlatan politicians from the brilliant leaders needed for their system to work in practice. If even they in their near limited brilliance cannot spot the charlatans, how on earth can the people of Detroit do so and therefore isn't that the ultimate endpoint of their system of empowering a handful of people? Sooner or later, a charlatan will get the power and at that point, the harm will far exceed all potential benefits. Obama is the embodiment of their fatal flaw, but as bad as he has been, he pails in comparison to the worst that is possible.

Image

And there you have it. Reducto ad Hitlerum

Classic dodge, Spinner. Kudos
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby Glimmerjim » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:22 pm

wanapasaki wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:I vividly remember my "I had a Dream" personal reflection. I was saying it as I was changing my underwear! :lol3:


Glimmerjim, depends may help you with that dream :lol3:

I got over it a LONG time ago! :lol3:
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:26 pm

Let me make this a little easier for you to relate to.........Where did conservatives stand on the issue of women's suffrage?
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby WTN10 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:32 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:Let me make this a little easier for you to relate to.........Where did conservatives stand on the issue of women's suffrage?


The same place the Democrats stood.

I can do it all day long, because it's exactly what you're doing.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:39 pm

WTN10 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Let me make this a little easier for you to relate to.........Where did conservatives stand on the issue of women's suffrage?


The same place the Democrats stood.

I can do it all day long, because it's exactly what you're doing.

Not without resorting to party affiliation, thereby ducking the issue, you can't.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:40 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:Let me make this a little easier for you to relate to.........Where did conservatives stand on the issue of women's suffrage?

Where did Democrats stand on the issue of slavery? :huh:

Let me make it simple, how is it not an equally valid question?

BTW, can you be sure that women's suffrage was actually a net positive for society? Would you oppose women's suffrage if it could be shown with absolute irrefutable scientific proof that it has been a net negative for society in general and women in particular?

Are people that vote with their heart as opposed to their head more likely to make bad decisions? Are women more likely to vote with their heart or with their head? Of course, today, I think the vast majority of people vote with their heart and don't use their head, which is why I think we are screwed and Detroit is just the dead canary as we all head down the same tunnel while intellectuals tell us the metabolic difference between canaries and human so we can safely disregard all those dead birds we are passing.

And to answer my own question. It does not matter if women's suffrage harmed women in practice or not. Freedom means freed to wreck your own life. It does not mean free to take other people with you or try to force them to follow you down they godly path. However, people often forget about basic human rights and oppose them for well intended reasons. I don't know their reasons and for all we know they may have actually been correct. I'm sure the reasoned varied like the support for most dumb ideas.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:41 pm

WTN10 wrote:I'm willing to bet if you pointed out a group of conservatives that did not despise him, BDD2 would argue that they were actually progressives and not "real" conservatives, a la Flew's "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Well, show them to me and we'll see. Fair enough?
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:42 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Let me make this a little easier for you to relate to.........Where did conservatives stand on the issue of women's suffrage?

Where did Democrats stand on the issue of slavery? :huh:

Let me make it simple, how is it not an equally valid question?

BTW, can you be sure that women's suffrage was actually a net positive for society? Would you oppose women's suffrage if it could be shown with absolute irrefutable scientific proof that it has been a net negative for society in general and women in particular?

Are people that vote with their heart as opposed to their head more likely to make bad decisions? Are women more likely to vote with their heart or with their head? Of course, today, I think the vast majority of people vote with their heart and don't use their head, which is why I think we are screwed and Detroit is just the dead canary as we all head down the same tunnel while intellectuals tell us the metabolic difference between canaries and human so we can safely disregard all those dead birds we are passing.

And to answer my own question. It does not matter if women's suffrage harmed women in practice or not. Freedom means freed to wreck your own life. It does not mean free to take other people with you or try to force them to follow you down they godly path. However, people often forget about basic human rights and oppose them for well intended reasons. I don't know their reasons and for all we know they may have actually been correct. I'm sure the reasoned varied like the support for most dumb ideas.

Sometimes, Spinner, you're just flat out dumb. This would be one of those times :huh: :huh:
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:44 pm

I think the liberal's favorite Bible quote is in order, but the full quote.

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

blackduckdog2 wrote:Sometimes, Spinner, you're just flat out dumb. This would be one of those times :huh: :huh:
Then it is really easy to point out clearly why and not simply resort to name calling, which is a clear sign of the dumb.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:47 pm

It's dumb to suggest, in any way shape or form, that women's suffrage was anything but a net plus for society. Dumb. Really, really dumb.
Did I mention dumb?
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:50 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:It's dumb to suggest, in any way shape or form, that women's suffrage was anything but a net plus for society. Dumb. Really, really dumb.
Did I mention dumb?

Thanks for the spot on liberal stereotype. Don't even dare to consider that their absolute beliefs are anything but 100% true.

If it is so dumb, then it should be so easy to prove in a simple short response. So why the need to resort to name calling? :huh:

Seriously, BDD2 this is flat earth, don't challenge the Bible thinking.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby TomKat » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:51 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:Probably not a lot of you guys are old enough. Nope, I was not quite 2 years old But I think it's worth pointing why, exactly, do you think that? out that conservatives HATED this man,truthfully, I bet plenty of Dem's in that day did, too. and everything he stood for. Sure, they've moderated their tone since,But not to the point where you would ever acknowledge any LOGIC or merit in their stance but I grew up among rock-ribbed New England Republicans There are no such thing, the biggest lib in Kansas next to the most rock ribbed NE Rep looks like Malcom X (I won't even get into Southern conservatives,Why not? Why are you trying to divide a group you yourself pointed out? whether they were Republican or Democrats,all were/are Americans and please feel free to point out the Southern Republicans who supported the Reverend) who despised Martin Luther King, to the point of applauding his killer. That's a legacy American consevatism has to deal with, Why is that? I didnt shoot anyone, nor did I applaud his killer. As you mentioned, I am too young to remember any of this no matter how much they've tried to spin it since
Your president is the best spin Dr the world has ever known.

I missed you BDD2.

Come give me a big ole hug. Jesus loves you, and so do I !!!
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