I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby TomKat » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:22 am

dave79 wrote:don't lurk on the ci forum much but here's my 2 cents. bdd2 you say you remember mlk's speech but you fail to mention why you remember it. did it inspire you? did it change your life. no you only use it as part of your agenda.


EXACTLY

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Re: I remember the

Postby vincentpa » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:27 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:I'm surprised at how little conservatives around here want to embrace the defining characteristic of their philosophy.



blackduckdog2 wrote:Show me where I said that conservatives' resistance to change makes them racist, please.


The rest of your posts are along the same lines. Don't try to run from it. You know exactly what you were doing and writing. Now you're trying to justify that crap by telling me and everyone else that not what you meant. Am I supposed to believe my lyin' eyes?

blackduckdog2 wrote:And you'll have to excuse me if I'm not too impressed with your working class neighborhood story. I grew up in Providence; hung out in East Providence even. And after my father moved us to the suburbs I spent all my time sneaking in to Worcester (one mean, gritty town, lemme tellya) during the late sixties. You're really gonna lecture me on race hate in the big city? I got more street cred on that block than you could conjure if you lived to be twice my age. I lived through the Boston bussing riots in the seventies when the city was one huge tinderbox waiting to go up. We had Panthers in our apartment building, a carved up front/rear triple decker. (real BP, too, not your silly-ass contemporary BP-Lite. These guys were like Stokes on steroids) IRA in the bars at night, not that they ever said so but you knew, because Boston was a major gun running, money clearing site for them.
If you'd mistaken me back then (like you are now) for some Brookline yuppie who never learned how to throw a punch, it's a mistake you'd have only made once, VP


Ok, you're a veritable tough guy with skin of leather and iron in his blood who has been to hell and back in the American inner city cesspool. How how does this biography refute what I wrote or the point I was making?
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby WTN10 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:34 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:It's your position that I have to prove there is NOT no connection between the conservatives of Dr. King's day, and conservatives now?


Rephrasing the positive position which you have taken as a double-negative doesn't change anything. Let's hold hands and go back to elementary math principles which dictate that two negatives net a positive. Your attempt at rephrasing to attempt to paint your positive position as a negative position is both desperate and sad.

Or that I should just take your word for it that all the conservatives I knew who hated him were not REAL conservatives, because REAL conservatives are kind of just like Jesus, only with a buzz cut, right?


Your evidence is anecdotal, the type you'd never accept in order to paint such a broad, sweeping generalization of liberals. I'm just doing what you would do in this situation. I'm sorry you're not happy with your actions.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby Andy W » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:53 am

A greater percentage of Republicans than Dems supported the civil rights act. I guess the Dems hated MLK more.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:53 am

Andy W wrote:A greater percentage of Republicans than Dems supported the civil rights act. I guess the Dems hated MLK more.

Exactly, people across the entire political spectrum hated him for a variety of reasons. That's why you should hate those Image right-wingers and disregard any position that people using similar labels say half a century later. :thumbsup:

I'd bet dollars to donuts that there were other black people that hated him. The damn racist Image

This is pretty interesting.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/08/26/when_martin_luther_king_was_hated_and_unpopular.html
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby dudejcb » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:18 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
wanapasaki wrote:Ouch, looks like BBD2 touched some exposed nerves on here :lol3:

Ya think? :lol3:

Yes, indeed. Why all to over-protesting? The answer seems obvious.

Apparently, no one read the article about Misremembering the I have a Dream Speech that I provided the link to. It adresses some of the assertions DHS "conservatives" floating on this thread. I suppose thoughtful, concerned, people will invest 5-minutes to read it, and those have their minds made up won't. It's a four page article so won't paste it, but here's the link again. http://www.thenation.com/article/175764 ... ave-dream#
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby dudejcb » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:22 am

Andy W wrote:A greater percentage of Republicans than Dems supported the civil rights act. I guess the Dems hated MLK more.

Yes Andy, that's the way it WAS. Back then, in the 60's, almost everyone was mad at the DEMs because of Johnson's escalation of the Vietnam war. Johnson himself lamented that he would be remembered for the war and not all the other good things he had done during his life of public service. He also knew that passage of Civil Rights legislation meant the Dems would lose the uber conservative dixiecrat south, which happened, and set the R's on their long march to the extreme right, which is still underway with the current Tea Bagger purge. Try to keep up.
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Re: I remember the

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:25 am

vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:I'm surprised at how little conservatives around here want to embrace the defining characteristic of their philosophy.



blackduckdog2 wrote:Show me where I said that conservatives' resistance to change makes them racist, please.


The rest of your posts are along the same lines. Don't try to run from it. You know exactly what you were doing and writing. Now you're trying to justify that crap by telling me and everyone else that not what you meant. Am I supposed to believe my lyin' eyes?

blackduckdog2 wrote:And you'll have to excuse me if I'm not too impressed with your working class neighborhood story. I grew up in Providence; hung out in East Providence even. And after my father moved us to the suburbs I spent all my time sneaking in to Worcester (one mean, gritty town, lemme tellya) during the late sixties. You're really gonna lecture me on race hate in the big city? I got more street cred on that block than you could conjure if you lived to be twice my age. I lived through the Boston bussing riots in the seventies when the city was one huge tinderbox waiting to go up. We had Panthers in our apartment building, a carved up front/rear triple decker. (real BP, too, not your silly-ass contemporary BP-Lite. These guys were like Stokes on steroids) IRA in the bars at night, not that they ever said so but you knew, because Boston was a major gun running, money clearing site for them.
If you'd mistaken me back then (like you are now) for some Brookline yuppie who never learned how to throw a punch, it's a mistake you'd have only made once, VP


Ok, you're a veritable tough guy with skin of leather and iron in his blood who has been to hell and back in the American inner city cesspool. How how does this biography refute what I wrote or the point I was making?

Oh, I think there's racism on the right, make no mistake. I also see that conservatives are resistant to change (not altogether a bad quality, as I stated, but you very conveniently left that out when you quoted me in big, bold red. The fact that your defensive mind leapt from there to a facile conflation of the two is what is most telling in this little tête-à-tête. I think racism on the right springs from something entirely different in their collective makeup than mere horror at the idea of shifting social circumstance. And you tried (pathetically) to paint me as some sort of armchair elitist, who couldn't begin to understand the realities of urban race hate, by suggesting that my rhetoric might fly in my liberal circles but not with someone like yourself, who'd been around the block a bit. Laughable
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:29 am

dudejcb wrote:
Andy W wrote:A greater percentage of Republicans than Dems supported the civil rights act. I guess the Dems hated MLK more.

Yes Andy, that's the way it WAS. Back then, in the 60's, almost everyone was mad at the DEMs because of Johnson's escalation of the Vietnam war. Try to keep up.

And of course, I said conservatives of ALL stripes hated MLK. Very interesting how knee jerkingly fast the right has to shift that over to an argument of party affiliation
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:31 am

dudejcb wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
wanapasaki wrote:Ouch, looks like BBD2 touched some exposed nerves on here :lol3:

Ya think? :lol3:

Yes, indeed. Why all to over-protesting? The answer seems obvious.

Apparently, no one read the article about Misremembering the I have a Dream Speech that I provided the link to. It adresses some of the assertions DHS "conservatives" floating on this thread. I suppose thoughtful, concerned, people will invest 5-minutes to read it, and those have their minds made up won't. It's a four page article so won't paste it, but here's the link again. http://www.thenation.com/article/175764 ... ave-dream#

That was a great read, btw. Thanks (It's not a conservative bashing thing at all, righties. Go ahead and read it. You'll survive)
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:40 am

WTN10 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:It's your position that I have to prove there is NOT no connection between the conservatives of Dr. King's day, and conservatives now?


Rephrasing the positive position which you have taken as a double-negative doesn't change anything. Let's hold hands and go back to elementary math principles which dictate that two negatives net a positive. Your attempt at rephrasing to attempt to paint your positive position as a negative position is both desperate and sad.

Or that I should just take your word for it that all the conservatives I knew who hated him were not REAL conservatives, because REAL conservatives are kind of just like Jesus, only with a buzz cut, right?


Your evidence is anecdotal, the type you'd never accept in order to paint such a broad, sweeping generalization of liberals. I'm just doing what you would do in this situation. I'm sorry you're not happy with your actions.

Some of my evidence is anecdotal, to be sure. And I'm not discounting it on your account, that's for frigging sure. The double-negative argument demonstrates just how preposterous your standards become when someone's gotten the logical drop on you. Which doesn't happen often, I'll admit, but boy howdy when it does do you never not handle it poorly. If my assertion is so preposterous, why haven't you provided me with the conservatives of the day who supported MLK's agenda (and yes, I will accept anecdotal information on your part, because I don't think you're a liar. It all matters)
You basic position seems to be that while somebody hated MLK, it simply could NOT have been conservatives. Was it those wascawwy wibbawoos again?
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Re: I remember the

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:46 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:Oh, I think there's racism on the right, make no mistake. I also see that conservatives are resistant to change (not altogether a bad quality, as I stated, but you very conveniently left that out when you quoted me in big, bold red. The fact that your defensive mind leapt from there to a facile conflation of the two is what is most telling in this little tête-à-tête. I think racism on the right springs from something entirely different in their collective makeup than mere horror at the idea of shifting social circumstance.



What does the racism on the left spring from?
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:47 am

dave79 wrote:don't lurk on the ci forum much but here's my 2 cents. bdd2 you say you remember mlk's speech but you fail to mention why you remember it. did it inspire you? did it change your life. no you only use it as part of your agenda.

Conservatives hated him. Now (once they have conveniently purged his message of all the impassioned support for labor issues) they fawn all over him. So who's using using the speech as part of their agenda, dave79? (btw, I'd stick to lurking if that's all you got. Nice to know I've got 'em coming out of the woodwork, though :thumbsup: )
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Re: I remember the

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:50 am

assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Oh, I think there's racism on the right, make no mistake. I also see that conservatives are resistant to change (not altogether a bad quality, as I stated, but you very conveniently left that out when you quoted me in big, bold red. The fact that your defensive mind leapt from there to a facile conflation of the two is what is most telling in this little tête-à-tête. I think racism on the right springs from something entirely different in their collective makeup than mere horror at the idea of shifting social circumstance.



What does the racism on the left spring from?

Same as everyone........ fear of the unknown. We just have less of it
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:50 am

Gotta go swim the dog :beer:
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Re: I remember the

Postby vincentpa » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:52 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:I'm surprised at how little conservatives around here want to embrace the defining characteristic of their philosophy.



blackduckdog2 wrote:Show me where I said that conservatives' resistance to change makes them racist, please.


The rest of your posts are along the same lines. Don't try to run from it. You know exactly what you were doing and writing. Now you're trying to justify that crap by telling me and everyone else that not what you meant. Am I supposed to believe my lyin' eyes?

blackduckdog2 wrote:And you'll have to excuse me if I'm not too impressed with your working class neighborhood story. I grew up in Providence; hung out in East Providence even. And after my father moved us to the suburbs I spent all my time sneaking in to Worcester (one mean, gritty town, lemme tellya) during the late sixties. You're really gonna lecture me on race hate in the big city? I got more street cred on that block than you could conjure if you lived to be twice my age. I lived through the Boston bussing riots in the seventies when the city was one huge tinderbox waiting to go up. We had Panthers in our apartment building, a carved up front/rear triple decker. (real BP, too, not your silly-ass contemporary BP-Lite. These guys were like Stokes on steroids) IRA in the bars at night, not that they ever said so but you knew, because Boston was a major gun running, money clearing site for them.
If you'd mistaken me back then (like you are now) for some Brookline yuppie who never learned how to throw a punch, it's a mistake you'd have only made once, VP


Ok, you're a veritable tough guy with skin of leather and iron in his blood who has been to hell and back in the American inner city cesspool. How how does this biography refute what I wrote or the point I was making?

Oh, I think there's racism on the right, make no mistake. I also see that conservatives are resistant to change (not altogether a bad quality, as I stated, but you very conveniently left that out when you quoted me in big, bold red. The fact that your defensive mind leapt from there to a facile conflation of the two is what is most telling in this little tête-à-tête. I think racism on the right springs from something entirely different in their collective makeup than mere horror at the idea of shifting social circumstance. And you tried (pathetically) to paint me as some sort of armchair elitist, who couldn't begin to understand the realities of urban race hate, by suggesting that my rhetoric might fly in my liberal circles but not with someone like yourself, who'd been around the block a bit. Laughable


You have a very high opinion of your ability to BS your way out of a corner. You got caught with you hand in the cookie jar. It's very unflattering (for you) to watch (read) you try to dance your way out of it. I didn't have to read into anything. My defensive mind didn't need to make any facile conflation. You did that for me with just about every post in this thread.

You still haven't addressed the point I made about the racist blue collar Democrats that existed/still exist to this day. Oh your little red herring tirade about how I painted you as a liberal elistist was completely irrelevant to that point I was making and susbsequently contrary to the relevant point you were making. Nice try. Keep dancing street warrior.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:56 am

dudejcb wrote:He also knew that passage of Civil Rights legislation meant the Dems would lose the uber conservative dixiecrat south, which happened, and set the R's on their long march to the extreme right, which is still underway with the current Tea Bagger purge. Try to keep up.

I love the name calling. It shows how bankrupt your ideas are. They have failed now for generation after generation. It is that failure of big government to help the little guy whether it was the Bush bailouts and signing off on the big spending (the catalyst for the Tea Party), the Bush steel tariffs, or the million big government bombs from the communist left.

Where has Democrat control helped the little guy?

That's because big government helps the big guy.

Small government helps the small guy.

No government helps no one.

Big and small is obviously relative.

I heard some knucklehead talking about how important voting was to helping minorities. A minority can NEVER gain by voting. Only the majority gets what they want by voting. A minority must win over the majority. It's these nonsensical unquestionable beliefs that lead to the uber, extreme, moderate, or even slightly left to support policies that fail in practice and then fail to learn from their failures leading to the death spiral we see in Detroit.

How many politicians does the big guy have to buy in a centralized government? Very few.

How many politicians does the big guy have to buy in a decentralized government? Many.

There is a huge economy of scale advantage when you have a big centralized government. It becomes a very good deal for the unethical to manipulate the system in their favor. It also greatly magnifies the consequence of incompetence. It doesn't take but a few unfortunately placed idiots to make a big mess.

Civil rights as per the meaning in south in the '60's was successful because they were right and they convinced the majority that they were in fact right.

This endless string of failure seems why they are so obsessed with trying to go back a half century and claim the moral high ground based on something that happened before most people alive today were even born, let alone old enough to have comprehended in a meaningful way.

Results, results, results. King got results where others had failed. Was it just finally that time or was it actually his actions? Oh, that's probably one of those things we cannot ask. Reagan, communism was doomed anyways, but the end of segregation was not inevitable and would return if not for them, I believe that is how the left sees it.
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Re: I remember the

Postby vincentpa » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:59 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Oh, I think there's racism on the right, make no mistake. I also see that conservatives are resistant to change (not altogether a bad quality, as I stated, but you very conveniently left that out when you quoted me in big, bold red. The fact that your defensive mind leapt from there to a facile conflation of the two is what is most telling in this little tête-à-tête. I think racism on the right springs from something entirely different in their collective makeup than mere horror at the idea of shifting social circumstance.



What does the racism on the left spring from?

Same as everyone........ fear of the unknown. We just have less of it


I'd say that is part but a smaller part than competition. That's why there is far more racism at the blue collar, working class and poor socio-economic levels.
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Re: I remember the

Postby vincentpa » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:05 am

blackduckdog2 wrote: And you tried (pathetically) to paint me as some sort of armchair elitist, who couldn't begin to understand the realities of urban race hate, by suggesting that my rhetoric might fly in my liberal circles but not with someone like yourself, who'd been around the block a bit. Laughable



BTW,
who do you pal around with now my hardened inner-city ex-thug (by way of the suburbs) friend? I'm sure they aren't those unsavory types of your youth. They probably are very similar to those that I now pal around with, albeit a little older. Those people aren't from the old neighborhood, if you know what I mean.
Last edited by vincentpa on Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I remember the

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:17 am

vincentpa wrote:You have a very high opinion of your ability to BS your way out of a corner. You got caught with you hand in the cookie jar. It's very unflattering (for you) to watch (read) you try to dance your way out of it. I didn't have to read into anything. My defensive mind didn't need to make any facile conflation. You did that for me with just about every post in this thread.

You still haven't addressed the point I made about the racist blue collar Democrats that existed/still exist to this day. Oh your little red herring tirade about how I painted you as a liberal elistist was completely irrelevant to that point I was making and susbsequently contrary to the relevant point you were making. Nice try. Keep dancing street warrior.

At no point have I ever asserted (and I assure you I do not believe, as I HAVE stated) that a conservative's resistance to change causes a conservative's incipient racism. At no point, VP. Give it up
As to blue collar Dems and race hate, well, I thought I had it covered when I said I lived through those bussing wars. The hatred fueling that little donnybrook (I really shouldn't minimize like that, it was horrific) came initially from those good Boston Irish down Southie, blue-collar Union Democrats all. It was unbelievable and I use the term advisedly; I was shocked at the levels of sheer poison and vitriol pumping through their minds. But if you'll recall, I was not speaking of Ds or Rs, although all the Cs insist on dragging the argument back there. Is it your contention that those vicious little leprechauns considered themselves liberals? I can assure you that was NOT the case. Outside of the labor issues (which they had to dance around when I confronted them on it) they were extremely conservative. That's right, VP..........extremely conservative blue collar union Catholic Democrats who would go on to become part and parcel of the Moral Majority (which was neither) as Reagan Democrats . And I could name a liberal Republican or two as well who supported MLK. But I can't think of any conservatives who did.
For a guy who grew up in a major east coast city, man, you really don't understand the landscape all that well.
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:19 am

OK, NOW I'm gonna go swim the dog. I enjoy VP's parries a little too much to just walk away from, I guess
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Re: I remember the

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:45 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:...I think racism on the right springs from something entirely different in their collective makeup than mere horror at the idea of shifting social circumstance.



What does the racism on the left spring from?

Same as everyone........ fear of the unknown. We just have less of it



So, "fear of the unknown", just like the left. Yet you put it on "the right", rather than simply stating "racism springs from...". No need to add the qualifier "the right" if it is the same for everyone, is there?
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby WTN10 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:58 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
WTN10 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:It's your position that I have to prove there is NOT no connection between the conservatives of Dr. King's day, and conservatives now?


Rephrasing the positive position which you have taken as a double-negative doesn't change anything. Let's hold hands and go back to elementary math principles which dictate that two negatives net a positive. Your attempt at rephrasing to attempt to paint your positive position as a negative position is both desperate and sad.

Or that I should just take your word for it that all the conservatives I knew who hated him were not REAL conservatives, because REAL conservatives are kind of just like Jesus, only with a buzz cut, right?


Your evidence is anecdotal, the type you'd never accept in order to paint such a broad, sweeping generalization of liberals. I'm just doing what you would do in this situation. I'm sorry you're not happy with your actions.

Some of my evidence is anecdotal, to be sure. And I'm not discounting it on your account, that's for frigging sure. The double-negative argument demonstrates just how preposterous your standards become when someone's gotten the logical drop on you. Which doesn't happen often, I'll admit, but boy howdy when it does do you never not handle it poorly. If my assertion is so preposterous, why haven't you provided me with the conservatives of the day who supported MLK's agenda (and yes, I will accept anecdotal information on your part, because I don't think you're a liar. It all matters)
You basic position seems to be that while somebody hated MLK, it simply could NOT have been conservatives. Was it those wascawwy wibbawoos again?


You think you've got the logical drop on me because you've used anecdotal experience about a group using a label 50 years ago to draw conclusions about a contemporary group using the same label?

Image

blackduckdog2 wrote:You basic position seems to be that while somebody hated MLK, it simply could NOT have been conservatives. Was it those wascawwy wibbawoos again?


Incorrect. My basic position is that your comparison between the two groups is unfair and you've condemned the same type of comparison when it's been applied to your group. You've tried to foist the quoted position upon me several times because you know I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in defending it. However, I'll stick with my position, which is both logically consistent, and consistent with my past defense of Democrats who have been painted with the same broad brush.
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Re: I remember the

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:03 am

assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:...I think racism on the right springs from something entirely different in their collective makeup than mere horror at the idea of shifting social circumstance.



What does the racism on the left spring from?

Same as everyone........ fear of the unknown. We just have less of it



So, "fear of the unknown", just like the left. Yet you put it on "the right", rather than simply stating "racism springs from...". No need to add the qualifier "the right" if it is the same for everyone, is there?

Okay
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Re: I remember the "I Have a Dream" speech

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:09 am

"You think you've got the logical drop on me because you've used anecdotal experience about a group using a label 50 years ago to draw conclusions about a contemporary group using the same label?"

No. I got the logical drop on you because your gifs are unoriginal. Though I dig the clown faces.......
Hey, just wondering.........can I make any comparisons to contemporary liberals by referencing their love of FDR and the New Deal? How about contemporary French folks by their actions during WWII? Or hideous British cuisine by quoting Thomas Wolfe's take on the matter from 1927?

Just trying to get a feel for where the magical cutoff line is
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