What The Hell, Texas?

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What The Hell, Texas?

Postby assateague » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:34 pm

Came across a story regarding a textbook being used in an AP history class. AP. So there shouldn't be a need to "summarize" the Bill of Rights, as these are allegedly the best and brightest. Even in a "regular" history class, there seems to be no need to "summarize" the Bill of Rights, as it is something which should be understood by everybody, not translated for you by someone with an agenda, either left or right.

Here is a link to the PDF of the history book, used in Guyer High School in Denton, TX.
http://www.conejo.k12.ca.us/Portals/49/Departments/Social%20Science/Palotay/Amsco.pdf

And the link to the original story.
http://monderno.com/news/high-school-ap-history-book-rewrites-2nd-amendment/

Although the story is about the second amendment, I find some others to be equally disturbing.

Bill of Rights is on page 102 of the actual document, page 133 of the PDF. If you don't want to link to it, I'll post what they "summarize" the Bill of Rights to be. This is word for word, including parenthetical asides, with nothing added by me.

FIRST
Congress may make no laws that infringe a citizen's right to freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and petition. Congress may not favor one religion over another (separation of church and state).

SECOND
The people have the right to keep and bear arms in a state militia.

THIRD
The people cannot be required to quarter (house) soldiers during peacetime.

FOURTH
The government may not carry out unreasonable searches or seizures of the people's property.

FIFTH
No individual may be deprived of life, liberty, or property without the due process of law. No defendant in a criminal case may be forced to give evidence against himself or herself or to stand trial twice for the same crime (double jeopardy).

SIXTH
Anyone accused of a crime has the right to a speedy and public trial and to call and question witnesses.

SEVENTH
In most civil cases (one person suing another in court), citizens have the right to trial by jury.

EIGHTH
Persons accused or convicted of crimes are protected against excessive bail and fines and cruel and unusual punishments.

NINTH
Any rights not specifically mentioned in the Constitution are also guaranteed against government infringement.

TENTH
All powers not delegated to the federal government belong to the states or to the people






This is absolutely shameful.
Last edited by assateague on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby slowshooter » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:38 pm

To list complete information would be akin to practicing science.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby clampdaddy » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:43 pm

Wow. They sure took some interpretative liberties with their summerization of the amendments. I alway interpreted the second to mean that BECAUSE there is a necessary need for a standing militia......comma......the right of THE PEOPLE to bare arms shall not be infringed.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby WTN10 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:54 pm

The summary of the Second Amendment is in direct contradiction with controlling SCOTUS precedent. The summary of the Fourth fails to take into account unreasonable searches of a person.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:14 pm

clampdaddy wrote:Wow. They sure took some interpretative liberties with their summerization of the amendments. I alway interpreted the second to mean that BECAUSE there is a necessary need for a standing militia......comma......the right of THE PEOPLE to bare arms shall not be infringed.

If you read the federalist papers, it really seems to me that the sole intent of the clause "a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," is that the federal governments right to regulate the militia is not being diminished by adoption of the 2nd amendment.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers/No._29
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defence of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body, which is constituted the guardian of the National security.


This is almost verbatim the language of the second amendment? :huh:

There is a clear distinction between all of the militia and a well-regulated militia.
The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious, if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements, is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, or even a week, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia ...


A well-regulated militia is not all the militia of the U.S. The Constitution empowers the federal government to create a well-regulated militia for the defense of the nation in Article 2 Section 8 of the Constitution.
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


The 2nd amendment does not undermine this power while it confers "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Your right to keep and bear arms does not restrict the federal governments right to create a well-regulated militia to defend our national security.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby vincentpa » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:51 pm

WTN10 wrote:The summary of the Second Amendment is in direct contradiction with controlling SCOTUS precedent. The summary of the Fourth fails to take into account unreasonable searches of a person.


Do you really think that was an accident?


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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby Chilidawg » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:40 pm

Don't fear, don't fear, people. Texas is working hard to ensure that their biology textbooks meet the most rigorous standards of all, those of the Reverend Billybob Nutjob!

Don't pay any attention to those who say otherwise.

Like the guy who wrote this:


To the Texas State Board of Education:
After having participated in the three rounds of review for Proclamation 2014 (HS Biology), I feel compelled to highlight several aspects of the review process that greatly need your attention. As it stands now, this process has been at best procedurally dubious and is on course to reduce, rather than improve, the quality of textbooks in our state.

First, it would seem that the selection process for reviewers is lacking, at best — politically motivated at worst. Coming into the live review session in Austin, I fully expected that as a doctoral student at the University of Texas at Austin I would be the least-qualified member on the panel. My fears of inadequacy would soon subside; it seems that I was in fact one of only two practicing scientists present; indeed, I was among a small minority of panelists that possessed any post-secondary education in the biological sciences. Given the high interest amongst the scientific community in improving science education in Texas, I doubt that the make-up of the panel reflected the application pool in any way.

In fact, I know that several of my colleagues who hold PhD or equivalent degrees in their respective fields were passed over in the selection process. Instead, we had several well-known creationists and even a Fellow of the Discovery Institute, an Intelligent Design think tank. Beyond the established creationists, apologists for “creation science” were scattered throughout each of the review teams. This does not in any way reflect the distribution of viewpoints within the scientific community. It is impossible to conclude that the teams reviewing textbooks were anything other than grossly skewed and obviously biased.

The net result of having a huge raft of non-scientists on the panels was that rather than checking for factual errors in the texts I was put into the position of having to painstakingly educate other panel members on past and current literature. Somewhat unsurprisingly, a reviewer from another table, who is also a well-known creationist without any training in biology, was quite proud that he was the one reviewing the sections on evolution for his table … with no scientific counterpoint to be had. As a result, even beyond the obviously ideologically-derived comments on the materials many of the comments found littered throughout those reviews make no sense whatsoever from a scientific viewpoint and are absolutely not germane to the content prescribed in the TEKS.


Sheesh picky picky picky. It's not like biology is a real science anyway.

Finally, I have recently been made aware that a reviewer from another team made what appears to be a grossly misrepresentative comment to the publisher. For example, in the review of the Houghton Mifflin Harcourt textbook, an incredible resource, a panel member comments:

I understand the National Academy of Science's strong support of the theory of evolution. At the same time, this is a theory. As an educator and parent, I feel very strongly that "creation science" based on Biblical principles should be incorporated to every Biology book that is up for adoption. It is very important for students to use critical thinking skills and give them the opportunity to weigh the evidence between evolution and "creation science."

This is disturbing for a number of reasons. The author of this comment has obviously not mastered the material contained within the TEKS, especially 2C. With such a gross misunderstanding of science, it is hard to fathom that any other comments the reviewer made would have been helpful or even accurate, and it further underscores the unfortunate skewing of the panels away from real, practicing scientists. Moreover, while I entered into this process hoping to improve it, I now find that my name appears on the final document containing this comment! At no time did I ever sign anything resembling suchnonsense. In fact, the author of that comment and I never worked on anything together. I do not knowhow this inaccurate statement and my name have been paired, but because I am a professional in good standing I strongly ask you to please remove my name from anything that does not have my direct signature when providing materials to the public. To do otherwise is to potentially sully my reputation.


Your reputation was sullied the minute you rejected creation science, buddy. Your kind is not welcome in Texas.

In sum, the review process is either broken or corrupt. In hopes of the former, let’s learn from this and ensure that the next generation of students from our state is equipped with a solid foundation in the biological sciences and can compete globally. Future panel members should be experts in the irrespective fields, preferably practicing scientists up to date on the modern information that studentsneed. If necessary, it might be useful to partition the TEKS to academics and professionals who dealwith these topics in their work and research. We should absolutely not see network, mechanical or chemical engineers, dieticians or others making decisions or pressuring publishers to change books on biology. Let biologists do biology. We’re actually pretty good at it.


You just go back to teaching biology the way we want you to teach it, using the textbooks we give you mister. Don't give us any of this librul pantywaist commie guff about evolutionary science, or we'll stone you.

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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:13 pm

Chilidawg wrote:Sheesh picky picky picky. It's not like biology is a real science anyway.

The few college biology class I took made me wonder. The professors seemed more focused on their agenda than on science.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:01 pm

this summation does seem to take some liberties to say the least. Assa, i will agree with that.

Then you lost me at
"there seems to be no need to "summarize" the Bill of Rights, as it is something which should be understood by everybody, not translated for you by someone with an agenda, either left or right."
How does one understand this without being taught? are you suggesting that this be taught elsewhere?

side note: my students are learning about reconstruction now. when i asked them if the book had a bias they without a doubt said it was written from a northern perspective. i agree. we (my county, in md, in the south) teach is as helping to rebuild the south and reconnect the states. i am sure the people of atlanta see if a bit differently.

side note connection: i am sure that other publishers have a text that states the original bill of rights in their original form. if it was i with a student in that particular school i would be suggesting another be chosen. or i would just teach this as a point of contention in the united states (because it is, just like the reconstruction period) to my own child. also remember if this was that bad of a survey of US history, that particular review would be shot to hell by the kids who did poorly on the test and reviews of it would do it in. i dont know the text myself as i do not teach AP, but will ask tomorrow and see what other teachers have to say.

and Assa, the AP US test is no joke. you would approve of its difficulty.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:53 am

ohioboy wrote:i am sure the people of atlanta see if a bit differently.
Well, maybe not Atlanta with all the Yankee transplants, but outside the suburbs :yes:

ohioboy wrote:that particular review would be shot to hell by the kids who did poorly on the test and reviews of it would do it in.
This assumes that the goal is to teach the kids. I reject that completely. If it were, we would do better.

If the ignorant and indoctrinated form your political power base, you must teach ignorance and indoctrination.

Has any political party ever seen the light and willingly given up their political power for the good of the people or are the all drug kicking and screaming and fighting the entire way, until they lose, and then like a flip of a switch they go and build whatever power base of convenience that they can find once the one they had is lost.

If you want to spend more money on teachers, but you don't want to risk educating the average child, how would you do it?

1. Mandate that kids that are severely mentally or psychologically disabled and cannot learn be "taught" at great expense.
2. Do everything you can to discourage discipline or removal of the disruptive students
3. Obsess about self-esteem over honest grading, lower expectations, promote students regardless of what they do, etc.
4. Disregard the needs of those not going to college and push subjects of no value and not interest to students that could make good money and have an enjoyable life if they got a valuable education

I could go on, but there is no evidence that they are serious and strong evidence that they goal is to ensure an impenetrable power base of poverty and the perpetual election of food stamp presidents with no experience and no competence, but has broad and deep blind loyalty like every third world president of the people who runs their country into economic destruction while condemning the greedy 1%'ers.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby OmegaRed » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:24 am

But the earth is only (counts on fingers) like 7,000 years old right?
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:35 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:i am sure the people of atlanta see if a bit differently.
Well, maybe not Atlanta with all the Yankee transplants, but outside the suburbs :yes:

ohioboy wrote:that particular review would be shot to hell by the kids who did poorly on the test and reviews of it would do it in.
This assumes that the goal is to teach the kids. I reject that completely. If it were, we would do better.

If the ignorant and indoctrinated form your political power base, you must teach ignorance and indoctrination.

Has any political party ever seen the light and willingly given up their political power for the good of the people or are the all drug kicking and screaming and fighting the entire way, until they lose, and then like a flip of a switch they go and build whatever power base of convenience that they can find once the one they had is lost.

If you want to spend more money on teachers, but you don't want to risk educating the average child, how would you do it?

1. Mandate that kids that are severely mentally or psychologically disabled and cannot learn be "taught" at great expense.
2. Do everything you can to discourage discipline or removal of the disruptive students
3. Obsess about self-esteem over honest grading, lower expectations, promote students regardless of what they do, etc.
4. Disregard the needs of those not going to college and push subjects of no value and not interest to students that could make good money and have an enjoyable life if they got a valuable education

I could go on, but there is no evidence that they are serious and strong evidence that they goal is to ensure an impenetrable power base of poverty and the perpetual election of food stamp presidents with no experience and no competence, but has broad and deep blind loyalty like every third world president of the people who runs their country into economic destruction while condemning the greedy 1%'ers.

The kids want to do well on the test. If it was a poor material it would not be used.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:42 am

ohioboy wrote:The kids want to do well on the test.
:lol3: Not all of them. Many don't give a damn. Obviously the relative proportion depends on the parents and not the teachers.

Those that want to do well, will likely do pretty well. Those that don't, won't unless they are forced to give a damn.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:12 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:The kids want to do well on the test.
:lol3: Not all of them. Many don't give a damn. Obviously the relative proportion depends on the parents and not the teachers.

Those that want to do well, will likely do pretty well. Those that don't, won't unless they are forced to give a damn.

You pay for the AP test.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:50 am

ohioboy wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:The kids want to do well on the test.
:lol3: Not all of them. Many don't give a damn. Obviously the relative proportion depends on the parents and not the teachers.

Those that want to do well, will likely do pretty well. Those that don't, won't unless they are forced to give a damn.

You pay for the AP test.

How many kids that take AP classes take AP tests?

How well do they trace back the performance on the AP tests to the textbooks?

If the system was that good at weeding out bad text books, they would do a vastly better job of weeding out bad teachers, bad schools, etc. and would have far better outcomes. Until then, if you have an agenda, there will be a market for that crap if the primary motivation is not the best education possible and I totally reject that the best education possible is the overwhelming priority or even the top priority in most cases.

Don't dismiss the deep rooted group think of the liberals that dominate the education profession at all levels. They truly believe that this is the truth, so it is the "correct" answer on any test they offer :yes:

Have you heard some of the crap that our Harvard educated lawyer sitting in the White House has said and believes?

I guarantee that he believes that that AP summary is correct. It's probably what he was taught at Harvard. Any other response would have been the wrong answer in his Harvard law class, but not on a high school AP test? :huh: What do you think he taught when he was lecturing on constitutional law? People like him write textbooks too :sad: They make up the AP tests too :sad:

The results we see do not indicate that we are doing what you suggest. The question is why?

If the ignorant and indoctrinated form your political power base, you must teach ignorance and indoctrination.

Is there any doubt that this exists throughout our education system?
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:47 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:The kids want to do well on the test.
:lol3: Not all of them. Many don't give a damn. Obviously the relative proportion depends on the parents and not the teachers.

Those that want to do well, will likely do pretty well. Those that don't, won't unless they are forced to give a damn.

You pay for the AP test.

How many kids that take AP classes take AP tests?

How well do they trace back the performance on the AP tests to the textbooks?

If the system was that good at weeding out bad text books, they would do a vastly better job of weeding out bad teachers, bad schools, etc. and would have far better outcomes. Until then, if you have an agenda, there will be a market for that crap if the primary motivation is not the best education possible and I totally reject that the best education possible is the overwhelming priority or even the top priority in most cases.

Don't dismiss the deep rooted group think of the liberals that dominate the education profession at all levels. They truly believe that this is the truth, so it is the "correct" answer on any test they offer :yes:

Have you heard some of the crap that our Harvard educated lawyer sitting in the White House has said and believes?

I guarantee that he believes that that AP summary is correct. It's probably what he was taught at Harvard. Any other response would have been the wrong answer in his Harvard law class, but not on a high school AP test? :huh: What do you think he taught when he was lecturing on constitutional law? People like him write textbooks too :sad: They make up the AP tests too :sad:

The results we see do not indicate that we are doing what you suggest. The question is why?

If the ignorant and indoctrinated form your political power base, you must teach ignorance and indoctrination.

Is there any doubt that this exists throughout our education system?


Most take it. If they do poorly, they tell those in following classes. Same for one teacher over another. Kids talk about what works. My 2 cents.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:38 am

ohioboy wrote:Kids talk about what works.
For them. If you are looking for an easy grade, that discussion will be very different than if you are looking to learn.

I remember those discussions and they are not the discussions that I would be having today. :no:

ohioboy wrote:Most take it.
In your school, district, county, state, nationally? Do those numbers even exist? :huh:

And 51% is most, just like 99% is.

Your argument that these text books would get weeded out doesn't seem to reflect reality across the board.

In the schools where all my colleagues send their kids, probably, but most are two professional families. Where I am from, :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

They couldn't even weed out the one middle school teacher that was a total stoner. The man was spaced out every day, so he taught the kids that the school district wrote off as not going to college anyways :thumbsup: They did eventually weed out the one alcoholic substitute that used to abuse kids, but it took so long that they did it by asking her to retire. I was just talking with a teacher in the Joliet school district, not a stellar academic institution and a retired Chicago public school teacher the other day. Yeah, change is not coming. They clearly see their job as nothing more than bureaucrat complaining about the system that they profit from. It's the same mindset that leads to failure whether it is corporate or government. Lot's of excuses, but no answers.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:44 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:Kids talk about what works.
For them. If you are looking for an easy grade, that discussion will be very different than if you are looking to learn.

I remember those discussions and they are not the discussions that I would be having today. :no:

ohioboy wrote:Most take it.
In your school, district, county, state, nationally? Do those numbers even exist? :huh:

And 51% is most, just like 99% is.

Your argument that these text books would get weeded out doesn't seem to reflect reality across the board.

In the schools where all my colleagues send their kids, probably, but most are two professional families. Where I am from, :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

They couldn't even weed out the one middle school teacher that was a total stoner. The man was spaced out every day, so he taught the kids that the school district wrote off as not going to college anyways :thumbsup: They did eventually weed out the one alcoholic substitute that used to abuse kids, but it took so long that they did it by asking her to retire. I was just talking with a teacher in the Joliet school district, not a stellar academic institution and a retired Chicago public school teacher the other day. Yeah, change is not coming. They clearly see their job as nothing more than bureaucrat complaining about the system that they profit from. It's the same mindset that leads to failure whether it is corporate or government. Lot's of excuses, but no answers.


Spinner. Jesus dude. Take a step back and stop over thinking things.

1. Kids take AP classes to take a test. You pay for the test.
2. Kids get college credit, in most cases, If they get a passing score. Their grade in school is in no way connected to the AP test score. It does not come in until the summer.
3. Bad texts will get weeded out, in theory, when kids give them a bad review. Depends on how much the teacher leaves up to the student to cover themselves.
4. Kids don't take AP courses for an easy grade-quite the opposite in fact.
5. Due to cost of the test, lots of low income kids do not have access to these tests. I know scholarships are available if you look.

AP classes are tough. Any young guys on here, under 25 or so, chime in.

Data is easy to find. I think most schools have it publicly available. Here are national number from last year. http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalSe ... t_2012.pdf
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:01 pm

ohioboy wrote:1. Kids take AP classes to take a test. You pay for the test.
Not across the board. They added AP classes at my high school because two girls were co-valedictorians. One was an idiot and one was very smart. Both had 4.0. One girl I took a fair number of classes with, although she never took the advanced math and physics. The other girl I never took a class with because she was taking classes with the other idiots that our school had written off. Her pathetic SAT scores got her into a small step up from the community college and my guess is she struggled there.

And before you go with things have changed, I have had a continuous string of family in that school district including a cousin that graduated 2 years ago, a cousin that is a junior now and a niece that is in 5th grade. BTW, the cousins live next door to my parents who babysat them almost every day. Yes, things have changed for the worse.

ohioboy wrote:2. Kids get college credit, in most cases, If they get a passing score. Their grade in school is in no way connected to the AP test score. It does not come in until the summer.
So the AP test is not connected to the AP class and therefore the AP text book because it comes in the summer, probably after most of those kids have graduated. :huh:

ohioboy wrote:3. Bad texts will get weeded out, in theory
, but in practice, not so much, especially in bad schools.

ohioboy wrote:4. Kids don't take AP courses for an easy grade-quite the opposite in fact.
They take them for a variety of reasons. Whether it is because their parents think they are little geniuses, they are the best students and the school pushes them that way, the parents think they can save a buck on college, or they are truly very interested and want to learn. The reasons vary. I was however mocking your kids talk thing. Kids are kids and kids aren't that bright, even the brightest ones.

ohioboy wrote:5. Due to cost of the test, lots of low income kids do not have access to these tests.
So they would really have no way to know if they were being taught garbage or if the textbook were any good? :huh:

ohioboy wrote:AP classes are tough. Any young guys on here, under 25 or so, chime in.
Depends on your abilities and depends on your school. :yes:

There is simply nothing universally true and there is a lot of failure that has being going on for generations that has caused so much unnecessary suffering. Education is vital and it is pathetic in far too many circumstances. Even at the high-end it is often far less than it should be.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:00 pm

Spinner, you are overthinking again.

On occasion you can speak in generalities. I know that drives you nuts. Just try.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:32 pm

Spinner. Jesus dude. Take a step back and stop over thinking things.

3. Bad texts will get weeded out, in theory, when kids give them a bad review. Depends on how much the teacher leaves up to the student to cover themselves.

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: Seriously? You expect us to believe that the teenage child is allowed to select a text book? They can't even get their heads our of their pants for the boys and out of Vogue for the girls in most cases. Kids don't get to select a school book. They are there to learn. We pay teachers and administration to pick well written well planned books to educate our children to the minimum standards. Which of course are not being met in an significant manner as a whole in our education system.Spinner is 100% correct about many areas of this nation teaching our children to be drones. Give me the billions of dollars and a free hand to change the system and I could get a far better result than the present system is obtaining.

AP classes are tough. Any young guys on here, under 25 or so, chime in.

My daughter took AP English. It was tough because they loaded the work up. Not because it was any harder than the regular English classes. I ended up sitting down with the teacher of AP English, the normal English teacher, and the principle on that issue. When they all said that is simply how they did it. I move Abby over to the regular English class. AP was a total waste of time!

Data is easy to find. I think most schools have it publicly available. Here are national number from last year. http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalSe ... t_2012.pdf[/quote]
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:07 pm

SH-do you know if that text is being used or as a supplement? i dont.

so Abby did not take the AP test right? then it does not matter what class she is in. the AP label only counts on the test. a class being labeled AP is just that, labeled AP. the whole point is to take the test.

have you looked up scores for her school for that AP class? you can crap on the school/teacher/class, but if it works?...... my methods are often questioned until the reslults come in. i have no idea if this is the case. but look for the scores.

pm school name if you want me to see if i can find anything.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:25 pm

I haven't looked. My child is not in the class so there has been no reason for me to do any research. My point was not crapping on a teacher. It is pointing out a system that is simply adding more work and calling it advanced education. More work has nothing to do with being advanced or prep for college. Except to teach the kids how to handle the work load. I think you need to remember that most on here do not teach and are not linked into all the inside track info on where to find info on it and testing results.

It is Columbia River High School in Vancouver, Wa.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:00 pm

ohioboy wrote:Spinner, you are overthinking again.

On occasion you can speak in generalities. I know that drives you nuts. Just try.

And that general tells you very little and helps you resolve specific problems even less :thumbsup:

ohioboy wrote:have you looked up scores for her school for that AP class?
Do those scores tell you how many kids took a particular AP class or not or only the scores they got on it? Is there a prohibition against taking the test if you didn't take a particular class?

ohioboy wrote:Their grade in school is in no way connected to the AP test score.

:huh:

Overthinking is always better than underthinking or not thinking at all :yes:

Schools do a terrible job of teaching kids to think for themselves. That is a generality. It does resolve the problem of overthinking things. That's for sure.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:26 pm

see this as one of the biggest failures of our present society. Every child needs to be taught to be a critical thinker. They need to be taught ot question everyone and everything. They need to be taught to research and understand the law, the Constitution, and everything important in life. Instead we distract them endlessly, allow our system to teach them to be drones, and wonder why it is all falling apart.

There Ohio, I just generalized enough for Spinner and I for the next decade.

Spinner, damn it man stop being an Engineer and stop overthinking things! That dang bad habit has caused endless problems for America. All those bridges and roads we drive on, sll the skyscrapers, manned space travel, and all that. Those could not have happened if we had all been generalizing and underthinking. They were simply not necessary and we need to be more general about everything. :lol3:
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