What The Hell, Texas?

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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:13 pm

No child left behind - well except for those with bad parents or more likely a bad mother and a non-participatory sperm donor

No child left behind - except those the administration force the impotent teachers to fraudulently promote

No child left behind - if they are college material, if not, well who cares whether they are competing with foreign nationals living and working illegally to plucking chickens for those crappy minimum wage jobs or skilled labor earning good money at a good job or even their own business because it's so far beneath the elites that they can't see the difference.

No child left behind - except it's the failure of the politicians and bureaucrats which is the same excuse as every failed business in America, unless they have monopoly protection and cannot fail.

No child left behind, expect when you get the help of Ted Kennedy. Boy that was effing stupid, but good politics :mad:

We have a systemic problem. Sure some pieces of that system are working just fine. Some even exceptionally well. Some pieces of that system look like they are working fine when considered in a vacuum.


"I would rather be surrounded by smart people than have a huge budget. Smart people will get you there faster." — former McKinsey associate as quoted in The McKinsey Way by Ethan Rasiel

But all the argument on education from the teachers and the left is for more budget? :huh:

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." — Albert Einstein

So don't over think it and keep the focus narrow :thumbsup:

"Stop looking for solutions to problems and start looking for the right path." — Andy Stanley

We are on a bad path in so many places, but do we look for a different path or just more funding for the path we are on? :huh:

But don't worry, it's a complex system and there will always be other people to blame if that is all you really care about. Everybody will be able to sleep at night no matter how bad the results become. It is how all bureaucratic systems degenerate and we have the most insanely bureaucratic education system, so there is no accountability and always someone else to blame.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:28 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:I haven't looked. My child is not in the class so there has been no reason for me to do any research. My point was not crapping on a teacher. It is pointing out a system that is simply adding more work and calling it advanced education. More work has nothing to do with being advanced or prep for college. Except to teach the kids how to handle the work load. I think you need to remember that most on here do not teach and are not linked into all the inside track info on where to find info on it and testing results.

It is Columbia River High School in Vancouver, Wa.

You are the cog now. :lol3:

This from usnews. Took about 10 seconds. So based on this I would say the school is doing just fine. In fact the IB program is much bigger it appears. You are blaming a system that you know nothing about. You could find out easy. Instead you complain.

Yes, I am here to answer questions. Just ask.




Advanced Placement® (AP®) Student Performance

Many U.S. higher educational institutions grant credits or advanced placement based on student performance on AP® exams. This shows this school's student participation and performance on these exams if data were available. (N/A means no students participated.)

Participation Rate 8%
Participant Passing Rate 69%
Exams Per Test Taker 1.4
Exam Pass Rate 73%
Quality-Adjusted Participation Rate 6%
Quality-Adjusted Exams Per Test Taker 1.5
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:57 pm

ohioboy wrote:So based on this I would say the school is doing just fine.

And this basis which you assert that they are doing fine is because less than 1 out of 10 students took a test and of them 7 out of 10 of them passed it.

Seriously, your basis that they are doing fine is that 6% of the students passed an AP test.

Don't set that bar too high.

How are the bottom 6%, 16%, 26%, etc. doing? The ones that need the most help from the system that no one seems to know anything about even though every one of us has used its services and either still does or know a whole lot of people that do?
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:31 pm

ohioboy wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:I haven't looked. My child is not in the class so there has been no reason for me to do any research. My point was not crapping on a teacher. It is pointing out a system that is simply adding more work and calling it advanced education. More work has nothing to do with being advanced or prep for college. Except to teach the kids how to handle the work load. I think you need to remember that most on here do not teach and are not linked into all the inside track info on where to find info on it and testing results.

It is Columbia River High School in Vancouver, Wa.

You are the cog now. :lol3:

This from usnews. Took about 10 seconds. So based on this I would say the school is doing just fine. In fact the IB program is much bigger it appears. You are blaming a system that you know nothing about. You could find out easy. Instead you complain.

Yes, I am here to answer questions. Just ask.

To be a cog you first have to be part of the system genius. Those numbers are atrocious and would not impress anyone. Trying to claim that 6% of any student body passing AP classes is a success is a joke. 69% success rate? That is a D in every class I ever took. That is a crap grade for an apparently D level performance by the students. For the record I don't trust US News for anything. Got an actual reference we can trust? Maybe something from the education system and their records? If I ever presented such lousy supporting evidence or such a poor performance at work I would be fired on the spot. Then again we know that the engineering field requires licenses and is held to a very high standard. Why should we expect any such thing from the folks we allow to teach our children?
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:08 pm

I don't have a problem with the 30% failure rate in an AP test. That could even indicate that the test was too easy. However, with only 8%, likely all from the top 10% to 20% of students, it could be a good test. I don't think you can infer anything from that information at all. Everything could be fine, but things could also be really bad.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/pennsylvania/districts/shikellamy-school-district/shikellamy-high-school-17330/test-scores
Reading Proficiency Distribution

Reading proficiency is determined by student results on the school's Pennsylvania System of School Assessment test.

Total Students Tested 211
Below Basic 17%
Basic 19%
Proficient 31%
Advanced 32%
Math Proficiency Distribution

Math proficiency is determined by student results on the school's Pennsylvania System of School Assessment test.

Total Students Tested 211
Below Basic 20%
Basic 27%
Proficient 35%
Advanced 18%


Advanced Placement® (AP®) Student Performance

Many U.S. higher educational institutions grant credits or advanced placement based on student performance on AP® exams. This shows this school's student participation and performance on these exams if data were available. (N/A means no students participated.)

Participation Rate 20%
Participant Passing Rate 33%
Exams Per Test Taker 1.7
Exam Pass Rate 24%
Quality-Adjusted Participation Rate 6%
Quality-Adjusted Exams Per Test Taker 1.2


So with nearly the same 6% rate of passing the AP test, does that mean everything is fine even though 1 out of 5 students has a below basic reading and math comprehension?

How did they get into high school if they had below basic proficiency? Do they really have any chance of catching up at that point?
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:40 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:So based on this I would say the school is doing just fine.

And this basis which you assert that they are doing fine is because less than 1 out of 10 students took a test and of them 7 out of 10 of them passed it.

Seriously, your basis that they are doing fine is that 6% of the students passed an AP test.

Don't set that bar too high.

How are the bottom 6%, 16%, 26%, etc. doing? The ones that need the most help from the system that no one seems to know anything about even though every one of us has used its services and either still does or know a whole lot of people that do?

i am addressing the AP since that is the subject of the thread. yes?

1 out of 10 shows you that the AP is not an easy test at all. kids dont just take it for kicks. AP classes are not for the fun of it.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:44 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:I haven't looked. My child is not in the class so there has been no reason for me to do any research. My point was not crapping on a teacher. It is pointing out a system that is simply adding more work and calling it advanced education. More work has nothing to do with being advanced or prep for college. Except to teach the kids how to handle the work load. I think you need to remember that most on here do not teach and are not linked into all the inside track info on where to find info on it and testing results.

It is Columbia River High School in Vancouver, Wa.

You are the cog now. :lol3:

This from usnews. Took about 10 seconds. So based on this I would say the school is doing just fine. In fact the IB program is much bigger it appears. You are blaming a system that you know nothing about. You could find out easy. Instead you complain.

Yes, I am here to answer questions. Just ask.

To be a cog you first have to be part of the system genius. Those numbers are atrocious and would not impress anyone. Trying to claim that 6% of any student body passing AP classes is a success is a joke. 69% success rate? That is a D in every class I ever took. That is a crap grade for an apparently D level performance by the students. For the record I don't trust US News for anything. Got an actual reference we can trust? Maybe something from the education system and their records? If I ever presented such lousy supporting evidence or such a poor performance at work I would be fired on the spot. Then again we know that the engineering field requires licenses and is held to a very high standard. Why should we expect any such thing from the folks we allow to teach our children?


your kid is in the system. you are part of it, like it or not. do nothing and you are no different than me. cog, meet cog.

oh, and usnews gets that from the College Board, who runs the AP. numbers are legit. nice try.

and i do have a license. public schools require it. private do not.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:54 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:So based on this I would say the school is doing just fine.

And this basis which you assert that they are doing fine is because less than 1 out of 10 students took a test and of them 7 out of 10 of them passed it.

Seriously, your basis that they are doing fine is that 6% of the students passed an AP test.

Don't set that bar too high.

How are the bottom 6%, 16%, 26%, etc. doing? The ones that need the most help from the system that no one seems to know anything about even though every one of us has used its services and either still does or know a whole lot of people that do?

just to clarify, SH's school has lots of IB kids, a program that is considered above the AP. yes, that school is doing just fine.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:00 pm

Keep trying to lump is in there cog. Won't work. I challenge the system all the time. I have held more than one teacher and principle accountable for their actions

So your licensed? Where the hell is the censure and oversight? Why the hell are bad teachers not weeded out by your board? Simple answer your license doesn't mean anything. Engineers who fail or are unethical are censured and loose their licenses all the time. When was the last time the board of educators or whatever you call it removed a teachers license? Let me guess, there is no such board which again makes your license irrelevant. Please explain to me why unlicensed teachers in private Schools have so much higher success rates when they are unlicensed. Yet again the license is irrelevant. Public schools suck. They continually fail at teaching al large percentage of their students. Simple fact there. Blather and defend all you want, the system is an epic failure. People are getting really tired of hearing about more money for failed systems.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:06 pm

last one before my beauty sleep:

Course Text: American History, A Survey, 12th Edition, Brinkley, Alan, McGraw Hill
Publishing, Boston, 2007.
Students are HIGHLY recommended to purchase an AP US History review book. These
have proven invaluable to students in previous years and are readily found, used, on the
web for around $15.00.

This is from my school. notice the second part about the review, which was my point of an earlier post, that it is not required.


Assumption were/are made without some investigation. So far I think all the people who have had an issue with education on DHC have all had one thing in common-they want kids to be able to think. Critical thinking usually is the buzz word I hear. Now if my 9th graders tried showing me what Assa posted as truth I would challenge them and see if they could figure out why someone would post that. Bias in the media is actually in our 10th grade curriculum as part of the Government class. Maybe some of those pointing fingers should try the critical thinking part before they start typing.

Oh, and Assa, you said you never avoid questions, but so far that is 2 in recent posts that were either missed or ignored. I will repost and see if you want to tackle this one. It is a serious question.

Assa said:
"there seems to be no need to "summarize" the Bill of Rights, as it is something which should be understood by everybody, not translated for you by someone with an agenda, either left or right."

I asked: "How does one understand this without being taught? are you suggesting that this be taught elsewhere?"
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:09 pm

I have held more than one teacher and principle accountable for their actions
you sound intimidating. @

So your licensed? Where the hell is the censure and oversight?
my county has a process, and yes we have had teachers removed from my school.
People are getting really tired of hearing about more money for failed systems.
did i ask?
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:11 pm

ohioboy wrote:last one before my beauty sleep:

Course Text: American History, A Survey, 12th Edition, Brinkley, Alan, McGraw Hill
Publishing, Boston, 2007.
Students are HIGHLY recommended to purchase an AP US History review book. These
have proven invaluable to students in previous years and are readily found, used, on the
web for around $15.00.

This is from my school, from the AP Syllabus. notice the second part about the review, which was my point of an earlier post, that it is not required. That school might, it might not. Try emailing the teacher. Call the school. Or just trust some random website.


Assumption were/are made without some investigation. So far I think all the people who have had an issue with education on DHC have all had one thing in common-they want kids to be able to think. Critical thinking usually is the buzz word I hear. Now if my 9th graders tried showing me what Assa posted as truth I would challenge them and see if they could figure out why someone would post that. Bias in the media is actually in our 10th grade curriculum as part of the Government class. Maybe some of those pointing fingers should try the critical thinking part before they start typing.

Oh, and Assa, you said you never avoid questions, but so far that is 2 in recent posts that were either missed or ignored. I will repost and see if you want to tackle this one. It is a serious question.

Assa said:
"there seems to be no need to "summarize" the Bill of Rights, as it is something which should be understood by everybody, not translated for you by someone with an agenda, either left or right."

I asked: "How does one understand this without being taught? are you suggesting that this be taught elsewhere?"
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:20 pm

ohioboy wrote:
I have held more than one teacher and principle accountable for their actions
you sound intimidating. @ Only to people who fail to do their jobs right. Those people who live off my taxes and fail our children should be very afraid for their jobs. Every citizen should be calling for their jobs to be given to someone who will do the work right.

So your licensed? Where the hell is the censure and oversight?
my county has a process, and yes we have had teachers removed from my school. Why is the county involved at all. Where is your educators board and why is it not removing bad eggs from the group?

People are getting really tired of hearing about more money for failed systems.
did i ask?

The entire system does and as a cog that is not fixing the system you are just as responsible as the leaders are for those requests. If you are not part of fixing the system you are part of the problem with the system.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:45 am

ohioboy wrote:1 out of 10 shows you that the AP is not an easy test at all. kids dont just take it for kicks. AP classes are not for the fun of it.

Well apparently kids from Shikellamy are since 2 out of 3 of them fail the AP test :huh:

ohioboy wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:So based on this I would say the school is doing just fine.

And this basis which you assert that they are doing fine is because less than 1 out of 10 students took a test and of them 7 out of 10 of them passed it.

Seriously, your basis that they are doing fine is that 6% of the students passed an AP test.

Don't set that bar too high.

How are the bottom 6%, 16%, 26%, etc. doing? The ones that need the most help from the system that no one seems to know anything about even though every one of us has used its services and either still does or know a whole lot of people that do?

just to clarify, SH's school has lots of IB kids, a program that is considered above the AP. yes, that school is doing just fine.

A far better argument is that there are only 10 kids below basic and 20 kids at basic in reading. That's still 30 kids, but it's far better than roughly 6 times higher rate that are below basic at my old high school.

How many kids below basic is just fine?

And are you really sure a 6% AP rate is just fine?

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/illinois/districts/naperville-cusd-203/naperville-north-high-school-6884/test-scores
A school where many of my coworkers kids attend has over 1 out of 3 kids pass AP tests. I'd say that's probably fine, but less than one fifth of that rate doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

It all depends on where you set that bar.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby beretta24 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:51 am

History is what happened, and there's only one US constitution. They should be taught as it happened and as written. While people can debate historical "facts" there's NO debating what language is in the Constitution. Period. You can debate interpretations but not content.

AP class or not, this does a disservice to the students and our nation's founders.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby clampdaddy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:08 am

beretta24 wrote:History is what happened, and there's only one US constitution. They should be taught as it happened and as written.......


Bingo. Quit making high school students take second language classes and spend more time teaching them proper English. An intensive study of the constitution would kill two birds with one stone.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:08 am

beretta24 wrote:History is what happened, and there's only one US constitution. They should be taught as it happened and as written. While people can debate historical "facts" there's NO debating what language is in the Constitution. Period. You can debate interpretations but not content.

AP class or not, this does a disservice to the students and our nation's founders.


I agree.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:26 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:1 out of 10 shows you that the AP is not an easy test at all. kids dont just take it for kicks. AP classes are not for the fun of it.

Well apparently kids from Shikellamy are since 2 out of 3 of them fail the AP test :huh:

ohioboy wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:So based on this I would say the school is doing just fine.

And this basis which you assert that they are doing fine is because less than 1 out of 10 students took a test and of them 7 out of 10 of them passed it.

Seriously, your basis that they are doing fine is that 6% of the students passed an AP test.

Don't set that bar too high.

How are the bottom 6%, 16%, 26%, etc. doing? The ones that need the most help from the system that no one seems to know anything about even though every one of us has used its services and either still does or know a whole lot of people that do?

just to clarify, SH's school has lots of IB kids, a program that is considered above the AP. yes, that school is doing just fine.

A far better argument is that there are only 10 kids below basic and 20 kids at basic in reading. That's still 30 kids, but it's far better than roughly 6 times higher rate that are below basic at my old high school.

How many kids below basic is just fine?

And are you really sure a 6% AP rate is just fine?

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/illinois/districts/naperville-cusd-203/naperville-north-high-school-6884/test-scores
A school where many of my coworkers kids attend has over 1 out of 3 kids pass AP tests. I'd say that's probably fine, but less than one fifth of that rate doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

It all depends on where you set that bar.


Look at total for AP and IB. That is the percentage that is the key to look at.

Did confirm that the text from the OP is a supplemental text.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:00 am

ohioboy wrote:Look at total for AP and IB. That is the percentage that is the key to look at.

Did confirm that the text from the OP is a supplemental text.

Why is that the key? Key to what? To some insignificant statistic? Even trying to narrow it down to that tiny fraction of students, I still don't see how that is "fine" since it seems pretty poor. Is Naperville really populated by 5 times as many students with this level of aptitude? Count me as highly skeptical. So I am highly skeptical that this is an indication that things are fine. It could be an indication of exactly what SH discussed. Their AP classes are run poorly so few people take them and then few people go on to take the AP tests even though a much higher fraction of the students have the aptitude to do so if they had decent teachers with a decent program.

I firmly believe that the below basic is probably the far more relevant static.

And on top of that it is the worst schools that are the most relevant.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/illinois/districts/chicago-public-schools/robeson-high-school-6574/test-scores
Reading proficiency is determined by student results on the school's Prairie State Achievement Examination.

Total Students Tested N/A
Academic Warning 33%
Below Standard 60%
Meets the Standard 7%
Exceeds the Standard 0%
Math Proficiency Distribution

Math proficiency is determined by student results on the school's Prairie State Achievement Examination.

Total Students Tested N/A
Academic Warning 51%
Below Standard 47%
Meets the Standard 2%
Exceeds the Standard 0%


I don't care whether Naperville increases the total AP and IB by 50%. Those kids will be fine.

It's high schools where less than 10% of the students meet the standards, yet this is not considered professional misconduct. Close the freaking high school, what the hell is the point? Put every one of those kids into classes that are appropriate for their abilities and make them meet or exceed the standards before they move to the next level. The teachers committed fraud when they agreed to promote these kids to the next level. Sure, they have the I was just following orders defense, but clearly they are engaged in malpractice and if we let every parent get a lawyer and sue them for malpractice, I'll bet they would for damn sure quick find a way. As it is, the cost of malpractice is zero to the teacher and the benefits are obvious.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:44 am

I had my orders worked really well at Nuremburg. Perhaps we need to start holding some trials for teachers who fail to perform with the same consequences. We can start with the administrators and see how quickly the teachers fall in line and find something that works.


I for one agree that the HS in question should be shut down and the kids simply kicked into the streets. Why are we wasting money teaching idiots that don't want to learn. Cut them off the teat. No diploma, no welfare, no help of any kind. The real problem is the kids have crap parents or a crap parent. They expect to live on welfare, and or crime, and no one holds them accountable. Lets stop paying to turn them into deadbeats and criminals. Educate the children that want to be educated. Kick the rest out and let them flounder.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:42 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:I had my orders worked really well at Nuremburg. Perhaps we need to start holding some trials for teachers who fail to perform with the same consequences. We can start with the administrators and see how quickly the teachers fall in line and find something that works.


I for one agree that the HS in question should be shut down and the kids simply kicked into the streets. Why are we wasting money teaching idiots that don't want to learn. Cut them off the teat. No diploma, no welfare, no help of any kind. The real problem is the kids have crap parents or a crap parent. They expect to live on welfare, and or crime, and no one holds them accountable. Lets stop paying to turn them into deadbeats and criminals. Educate the children that want to be educated. Kick the rest out and let them flounder.


:lol3: :lol3: SH, you actually got me to laugh out loud.
Lets stop paying to turn them into deadbeats and criminals.

let me know how kicking them out turns out. an entire school? :lol3:

You posted this on another thread, think it might be sage advice (since you do have all the answers and all).
Careful about pointing a finger, three more are pointed right back at you.


I also really want to know what source you would like us to use to gauge the success of a school? Since USNEWS is not a viable source-according to you-what source would you like me to use? I also liked your inside track comment since all the info is right on google or any other search engine.

I just wanted to point out the possible flaw with the OP. Chalk it up as another "Teachers are all bad and are the problem" thread.


Spinner-I think you are onto something with the social promotion (you complete a year and you move on no matter what the grades). I know in my system there is no track for a kid who is NOT on a path to college. Period. One Tech school for the whole county of 1.2 million people. So there are kids who are in a system with no realistic end game for them. Couple that with a very vocal and influencial public and you have a major problem. THIS IS JUST FOR MY COUNTY. I AM NOT SPEAKING ABOUT OTHER AREAS OF THE COUNTRY. If you go into your local elementary school, and ask about holding kids back, see what they say. Around here the buck stops in 9th grade-my classes. I think most are the same. Our society has allowed this to happen and that includes the teachers. But you cant just blame one group. It takes us all to win or lose. Go ask at your local schools. Post of the results here. I do my homework and report back and answer questions. If you keep yelling and accusing and not doing anything other than posting to DHC, how can you say you are not part of the problem? Spinner, I dont have time to reply to all of your questions-all I can say is that the numbers (of SH's daughter's school) are indicative of a school that is not one of the problem schools. Look into the IB program some-it is a good one. Very similar to AP. If you want to compare schools, you have to add the two together. http://portalsso.vansd.org/portal/page/ ... calaureate
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ohioboy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:05 pm

As I assumed all along, it was a supplement and teachers were doing their jobs to correct any confusion.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/18/te ... on-second/
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:25 pm

ohioboy wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:Lets stop paying to turn them into deadbeats and criminals.

let me know how kicking them out turns out. an entire school? :lol3:

Depends on what they do with the money they save, does it not? I've heard numbers in the neighborhood of $16,000 per student in Chicago. Corruption and incompetence is always expensive :huh: Even if it is only $10k per student. That is about $8M per year. You could add a whole lot of cops. That would seem to have a lot more value than they are getting from having that school.

ohioboy wrote:If you go into your local elementary school, and ask about holding kids back, see what they say.
Do you believe it is professional misconduct or malpractice to socially promote a student?

If we insist on social promotion, then every parent or guardian of a social promoted student should have to sign off on it. It should be like a release form. We can work on the wordings, but it should say that your child is a dumbass and hasn't mastered the skills necessary to move forward, however if you wish to avoid embarrassment of having your child held back, will will social promote him which is likely to have serious negative consequences later in his life. We recommend that he repeat the grade, but it's your kid and if you want to Image up his life, we don't care.

We could even save a lot of money. Once a kid is social promoted twice, we can just set up a room with video games for them so they don't disrupt the other kids who are actually learning.

ohioboy wrote:Our society has allowed this to happen and that includes the teachers. But you cant just blame one group.
I don't blame just one group, but I do blame every group where professional misconduct is a widespread part of the culture. It's like heart surgeons blaming smokers for when they left a sponge in the chest or didn't properly sterilize before surgery.

ohioboy wrote:pinner, I dont have time to reply to all of your questions-all I can say is that the numbers (of SH's daughter's school) are indicative of a school that is not one of the problem schools.
My point is that is purely subjective. If you put things on a relative scale, there will always be a best and a worst. All could be fine or all could not be fine or some fraction in the middle. I will fully concede I don't know what the goal should be, but it seems like the bar is set very low at SH's kids school and you think that is just fine. I think education is too valuable to set the bar that low.

ohioboy wrote:Look into the IB program some-it is a good one. Very similar to AP.
If your concern is the cream of the crop. If you are worried about the average and below average, it's pretty much worthless. Those are the one's we consistently get the least value for the time and money spent on them.

ohioboy wrote:I know in my system there is no track for a kid who is NOT on a path to college. Period. One Tech school for the whole county of 1.2 million people. So there are kids who are in a system with no realistic end game for them. Couple that with a very vocal and influencial public and you have a major problem. THIS IS JUST FOR MY COUNTY. I AM NOT SPEAKING ABOUT OTHER AREAS OF THE COUNTRY.
That was and is the major problem with my high school. The thing was that they had a good vo-tech. Our school actively discouraged kids from going there if they were not trouble makers. The good kids got screwed so the money could stay at the home school and the bad kids got skills because they were pushed to go to school with the vo-tards. I think a big part of the reason for that is every teacher has a college degree and a large fraction have parents with college degrees. They are just out of touch with ordinary people. That's why they do pretty well with those following in their footsteps and pretty pathetic with those doing things that no one in their immediate family has ever done for a living.
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Re: What The Hell, Texas?

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:45 pm

ohioboy wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
ohioboy wrote:So based on this I would say the school is doing just fine.

And this basis which you assert that they are doing fine is because less than 1 out of 10 students took a test and of them 7 out of 10 of them passed it.

Seriously, your basis that they are doing fine is that 6% of the students passed an AP test.

Don't set that bar too high.

How are the bottom 6%, 16%, 26%, etc. doing? The ones that need the most help from the system that no one seems to know anything about even though every one of us has used its services and either still does or know a whole lot of people that do?

just to clarify, SH's school has lots of IB kids, a program that is considered above the AP. yes, that school is doing just fine.


I won't say I knew the school would score well, but I expected it. The school is located in a middle to upper class area with parents who are very involved with the schools and their kids performance in the scholastic environment. I have been called upon to participate in multiple parent driven complaints and changes in the local schools system from middle school on through high school levels. We are a fairly tight community and the kids have all grown up together and gone to the same schools together.
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