beretta24 wrote: ScaupHunter wrote:
beretta24 wrote:Zero...no substantial population of people willing to actually die for what they believe in.
Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen risk it all every day. Don't believe it? There are a lot of Americans that are willing to lay their lives down for America and what it stands for.
My thought is that any civil war will trigger when the money runs out and all the deadbeats no longer get their freebies. They will start to try and take what they want from those who worked for it. The government won't do anything about them and their action, and a lot of people will decided enough is enough and deal with the problem children in a very permanent manner.
And that population of people you mentioned with conviction is relatively small....most people are too comfortable to be bothered with the current issues the OP raised. If the financial issues result in catastrophic impacts on our standard of living, I agree, things could be vastly different.
But then doesn't that argue that it will only take a small fraction willing to use force to change things will the rest sit frozen unwilling to actually die for what they believe?
History does not suggest that a civil war would go well for the freedom lovers under the conditions we are in with the excessive centralized government and excessive redistribution system we have. As it fails, the demand for people even more radical than Obama promising to give them even more for doing nothing at all will grow. The best will leave and the worst will stay. Detroit is the dead canary. I don't see the pattern changing. It will just take a long time for the deadly poison to spread from the concentrated neighborhoods of the big cities to the broad diverse outer suburbs, small towns, and rural communities. The upside is that people like Obama look their nose so far down at the people in these communities, they stay close to the city. The California hippy culture is probably the exception, but I'm over a thousand miles away so I don't understand how that progresses to nearby states, but it does seem to spread.
Those that seek centralized control will be in command of the military. They will put commanders in charge that believe as they do. They will seek to change the culture to their culture incrementally. They will lower the standards to let the like minded in. The military was not a problem for many despots that came as a result of the path we are on. A couple decades, and we have had near 100% turnover of the military. The statists never have trouble finding militants willing to do horrible things to their fellow citizens.
I think SH's flaw is that the government will do something. It will actively help the freeloaders. Why would that stop? Look at the massive expansion of food stamps over the relatively short time period.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.