Thanks Obama's EPA

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Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby cartervj » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:21 am

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/11/us-internationalpaper-alabama-idUSBRE98A0PB20130911
International Paper to close Alabama mill, lay off 1,100


Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:53am EDT
(Reuters) - International Paper Co (IP.N) said it will close its Courtland, Alabama, paper mill by early next year, laying off 1,100 workers.

The mill has an annual production capacity of 950,000 tons.

"This decision to permanently close capacity is primarily being driven by demand decline for uncoated freesheet paper products in the United States," Chief Executive Officer John Faraci said in a statement. not true, it would cost too much to revamp to new EPA regs

The decision to close the mill took months and was finalized at a meeting of IP's board of directors on Tuesday.

Salaried workers will be eligible for severance, and IP said it would work with union officials to offer assistance programs to hourly employees.

IP, based in Memphis, Tennessee, plans to take a $675 million charge related to the closure, and will record it later this year and into 2014.

Shares of IP slid 0.2 percent to $49.16 in early trading.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby cartervj » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:25 am

http://www.timesdaily.com/news/local/article_3818f5d0-d570-11e2-bf80-10604b9f6eda.html
The Colbert County plant is an important area of research because it is the only TVA plant that burns biomass in conjunction with its coal program, Bradley said.
“We’re getting real data about how feasible it is to burn wood waste,” he said.

The research is significant because it will provide the scientific basis for developing similar programs in the future.
For example, the Colbert County plant is capable of burning 7,200 tons of wood waste each year. There is room for growth because the plant currently is not operating at full capacity.

The Alabama Department of Environmental Management sued the Colbert Steam Plant on April 12 for violations of the Clean Water Act. The lawsuit claims the coal ash ponds at Colbert polluted local ground water and the Tennessee River.
“The plant is scheduled to shut down in 2016 if we don’t upgrade our pollution controls,” said Gamble, but added he remains hopeful the plant will be able to reach an agreement with the state.

“I spend about half my time working with new technologies that would get the plant to continue to operate,” he said.
Bradley said the plant has three options: covert to newer, cleaner technologies, add emissions controls, or retire.
If the plant does close, the eight gas turbines on the property will continue to run, said Gamble.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby cartervj » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:28 am

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/energy-environment/coal-plants-to-shut-down-from-EPA-regulations.html




And there is zero global warming benefit to go with all the economic costs, because even if all United States greenhouse gas emissions were shut down to zero tomorrow, the rest of the world would keep on puffing. Paul Knappenberger recently calculated, based on standard assumptions, that getting to zero emissions in the U.S. immediately would only reduce global average temperatures an imperceptible 0.08 degrees Celsius by 2050. Moreover, the rest of the world would replace all U.S. emissions within seven years.
So it’s all pain and no gain. By legally dubious means. To accomplish the opposite of what Obama promised on the campaign trail. Congress should take exception to being circumvented and step in to stop Obama’s (now-declared) War on Coal.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/ ... z2fdTovMaQ
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby tucker301 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:50 am

What new (Obama era) EPA regulations specifically caused the shutdown?
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby assateague » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:03 pm

Maybe you should ask the former head of the EPA

September 2, 2011 - Since day one, under President Obama's leadership, EPA has worked to ensure health protections for the American people, and has made tremendous progress to ensure that Clean Air Act standards protect all Americans by reducing our exposures to harmful air pollution like mercury, arsenic and carbon dioxide. This Administration has put in place some of the most important standards and safeguards for clean air in U.S. history: the most significant reduction of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide air pollution across state borders;

http://www.epa.gov/glo/actions.html


Or this

Coming in a close second was the EPa’s so-called
Utility MACT regulation,11 at more than $10 billion
annually. This 210-page regulation requires utilities
and other electricity generators that use fossil fuels
to install the “maximum achievable control technology” (MaCT) to limit emissions. So stringent are
the standards that potentially dozens of coal-fired
power plants will close, thereby undermining the
reliability of the power grid and substantially raising the costs of electricity for consumers

http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/pdf/bg2793.pdf


Or this

This report provides background information on EPA regulatory activity during the Obama
Administration to help address these issues. It examines 46 major or controversial regulatory
actions taken by or under development at EPA since January 2009


You can read it here. If you would like to jump straight to the list of Obama administration-specific regs, since 2009, you may jump straight to page 34 in the report.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41561.pdf
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby tucker301 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:28 pm

So International Paper is an electric utility? :huh:

I'll ask again, specifically, which regulations were causing them to close. It's not good enough to say, "EPA shut them down." At least not for me. I'd really like to know which regulations they were not going to be in compliance with.

It seems a simple enough question. Especially since someone has already claimed that as the cause of their closing, despite the quote from the company's CEO citing reduced demand for the primary reason. (Ya'll do know that the printed media industry is all but dead, right?)

BTW, the inserted red text in the OP's quote is not part of the original article from Reuters. I guess it's editorial comment by Carter, or maybe some other expert.

I'll check back from time to time to see if anyone can address my question.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby ScaupHunter » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:51 pm

The coal plant that contaminated the ground water source has nothing to do with the global warming hypothesis of this post. You don't get to poison tens of thousands of people to make a buck. That company will be paying millions in clean up fees. The EPA did not cause the problem. The company caused it and now has to fix it. Frankly it should have been addressed a lot time ago in that case.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby tucker301 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:15 pm

Yeah, I really didn't get into that one, but it figures.
Still waiting on the paper mill thing. Y'all take your time. Get them facts straight before you post.
I'll check back again later. Expecting big things.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby cartervj » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:32 pm

Going on what several insiders have told me, it's gonna cost 600 million plus just to shut it down, it'll cost more to revamp to a cleaner system. They are loosing to a declining market but still it's not the big reason behind this.

Never heard anything on the Steam plant polluting anything. Curious about that one myself.

One friend told me about the wood pellets the Gov is pushing hard. It's not feasible without Government heavily subsidizing the system. He's been in the timber business all his life and stands to make money on the wood pellet deal so I'd guess he's not stretching any truth.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby cartervj » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:34 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:The coal plant that contaminated the ground water source has nothing to do with the global warming hypothesis of this post. You don't get to poison tens of thousands of people to make a buck. That company will be paying millions in clean up fees. The EPA did not cause the problem. The company caused it and now has to fix it. Frankly it should have been addressed a lot time ago in that case.



no one has been poisoned what so ever, trying to figure out that angle since 2 large companies built just downstream
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:15 am

Not true. If the ground water is contaminated local wells have been poisoning people through those contaminates. Many toxins take decades for the results to show in people. That also often show in increased birth defects in localized areas. I work in hazmat and the water protection field.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby WTN10 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:20 am

Mr. Farachi's house is amazing. Has his own putting green.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby tucker301 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:45 pm

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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:57 pm

How is any of that last post relevent when we know that Carbon and Carbon Monoxide in the environment are pretty much irrelevant compared to other things? It is a war on coal. Plain and simple. When a president wants to make coal plants "create" some magic system that can reduce carbon emissions that amount it is an attack on their existing costs, processes, and longevity.


Even the radio guys are starting to make fun of the global warming hype. A report was recently released indicating the continuing increase in heating of the sun will destroy all mankind and all living things on earth. We have to get started on cooling things off. We only have 3.5 million years left! What they made fun of was the global warming idiots who actually asked them to not publish the report because it would hurt their agenda!

We have bigger fish to fry than coal plants that are already operating in a clean manner. They need to focus on enforcement and clean up at the ones that are environmental disasters and leave the good players alone.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby cartervj » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:25 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:Not true. If the ground water is contaminated local wells have been poisoning people through those contaminates. Many toxins take decades for the results to show in people. That also often show in increased birth defects in localized areas. I work in hazmat and the water protection field.



that's good but I'm here to to tell ya, lived here almost all of the 48 years of my life, never have I heard of in poison in wells or water systems in that area

now head over to where Ford and Reynolds (used to be) the plants runoff emptied into a swamp, it's full of heavy metals etc.......

where the Steam plant is, the cooling ponds empty into a major creek that enters the river, there is lot's of aquatic life, mussels on up
I've asked biologist etc.. and no one seems to know anything about this

that creek is a great place to catch large salt water stripes in the winter :thumbsup:
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby cartervj » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:39 pm

http://www.tva.com/power/stantec/al/rpt_004_appndx_b_cof_171468118.pdf


just found this and it appears a lawsuit has been drawn


got some more digging to do
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby cartervj » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:44 pm

It's a done deal, Colbert Steam Plant is closing down. That's not good enough though, now looks like 1500 to 3000 TVA employes are going next, and yes it's due to new EPA regs coming down the pipe every few weeks these days.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby Rat Creek » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:04 pm

The EPA regs are out of control. It is an all out war on the private sector, large and small. A good friend of mine owns a small business that serves the aerospace industry. He has several battery operated fork lifts. He explained to me that the machines' batteries are about gone and he cannot replace them because of new EPA regulations that require getting a waste-water permit from the local city and county, having a local government dud come inspect their site and then drop in whenever they want. This is all based upon the "concern" that something could spill out of the batteries, and then make its way into a storm drain and end up killing the Mississippi river, I guess.

He instead will pull the batteries, take them to a recycling center and scrap equipment. He will get rid of the bad batteries without allowing the government duds to hassle him. He just does not want to allow any more government intervention into his life. Notice how the batteries are still coming out of the machines. The only difference is all the red tape and government interference.

Seriously. I would ask all the useful idiots on this site who back all this crap to do the same thing the next time you need a new battery in your car, boat or ATV. The only difference is the size of the battery. So, go get waste water permits, ask the brilliant government employee to come out and monitor you changing the battery. Just do gooder liberals getting in the way of people trying to make America work.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:29 pm

I was bitching the EPA this last week at the camp for those @#)DAMN new safety pour spouts on 5 gallon gas cans!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I end up spilling more gas flocking with them trying to get the gas to flow than I EVER did with out it!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: The flocking stupid at the EPA...it burns!!! :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby cartervj » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:48 pm

You can buy water spouts to replace those new fangled pieces of crap. Check on EBay etc…. they're the same thing that used to come on those gas cans but they are called water spouts now. :loll: Only cost $15 each last time I checked.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby clampdaddy » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:18 pm

Indaswamp wrote:I was bitching the EPA this last week at the camp for those @#)DAMN new safety pour spouts on 5 gallon gas cans!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I end up spilling more gas flocking with them trying to get the gas to flow than I EVER did with out it!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: The flocking stupid at the EPA...it burns!!! :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


Here in Ca. we've been dealing with those crappy cans for quite a while now. Strangely, most of the ATV shops now sell "water cans" instead of the old "race fuel cans" we used to use. :wink:
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:21 pm

The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby Rat Creek » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:43 pm

Indaswamp wrote:I was bitching the EPA this last week at the camp for those @#)DAMN new safety pour spouts on 5 gallon gas cans!!!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh my gosh. When I first used one of those stupid things, I wanted to go choke a liberal do-gooder at the EPA. :no:

Instead of putting up with the ridiculous design, I bought multiple funnels for our water pump, wave runners (PWCs), boat and ATV. So to bypass the useful idiots at the EPA, I take the entire cap off and pour the fuel quickly into the funnel rather than try to coax it out of that stupid "save the planet" spout. :rolleyes: Yes, I spill fuel on the ground and in the water, but far less that when I use the EPA approved spout as it is designed. :shades:

That is what happens with EVERY federal agency. They just keep growing and creating justifications for their existence until they can get to that lifetime pension and become a complete burden to the tax payers.
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Re: Thanks Obama's EPA

Postby vincentpa » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:15 pm

tucker301 wrote:Yeah, I really didn't get into that one, but it figures.
Still waiting on the paper mill thing. Y'all take your time. Get them facts straight before you post.
I'll check back again later. Expecting big things.


Paper mills produce effluent air that must be cleaned before releasing into the atmosphere. They also use toxic Chemicals in the process.
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