The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

A forum not related to waterfowl for discussing the more controversial and hot topic issues in our world from immigration, politics, the war, etc..

Moderators: Smackaduck, MM

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby aunt betty » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:27 am

If I borrowed $100 from spinner at an interest rate of -50% compounded annually...how long til the loan disappears without making a payment? Never.
However...that first year HALF the debt would disappear.
And ever year. I could wait five years to pay his money back in full.
I would simply give him $3.125 dollars.

Spinner. Can I borrow some cash at -50% interest from you? Make it a five-year loan please.

Negative interest...rofl.


A=Pe^rt falls apart when you use a negative number for "r".

e^.5=1.64....
e^-.5= 0.64....

See?
INTERNET CREDIBILITY is...an OXYMORON. :moon:
User avatar
aunt betty
memberhip was not approved
 
Posts: 11696
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Go HOGS!


Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:49 am

AB, but I would loan money to you at a +50% rate, so why would I loan it to you at -50%.

Indaswamp wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:The banks would borrow near the maximum amount of their required reserves. Why would they not? If they are getting paid to borrow. As the rate gets close to zero, they are already going to be borrowing near the maximum already because it costs them nothing to do so. So as the cost goes down, they borrow more and more and when it crosses zero, they continue borrowing more. There are some transaction costs associated with borrowing, which are probably negligible, so once they turn a profit by borrowing as much as they can, they will borrow as much as they can and the fed will loan the maximum amount that this part of their power can produce.

Do you think they will borrow more than the maximum reserve requirements? Why would the fed permit that?

You seem to know what would happen. Why didn't you just explain it to start with? However, I took your quiz, now please provide the answer in your words and not from a link that doesn't address the question directly.

As far as pushing more loans out the front of the bank, again, nothing dramatically changes. It just makes them marginally cheaper and has marginal impact. There is no cliff. Just a marginal shift in cost.

Treasuries Spinnerman-not banks borrowing from the FED.


You said the FED rate. As in the fed funds rate. For treasuries, the rate is not set by the government. It is set in the market via auction.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aOGXsWKEI6F4
Treasuries rose, pushing rates on the three-month bill negative for the first time, as investors gravitate toward the safety of U.S. government debt amid the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.


BTW, you still haven't explained what you believe would happen.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16187
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:40 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:AB, but I would loan money to you at a +50% rate, so why would I loan it to you at -50%.

Indaswamp wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:The banks would borrow near the maximum amount of their required reserves. Why would they not? If they are getting paid to borrow. As the rate gets close to zero, they are already going to be borrowing near the maximum already because it costs them nothing to do so. So as the cost goes down, they borrow more and more and when it crosses zero, they continue borrowing more. There are some transaction costs associated with borrowing, which are probably negligible, so once they turn a profit by borrowing as much as they can, they will borrow as much as they can and the fed will loan the maximum amount that this part of their power can produce.

Do you think they will borrow more than the maximum reserve requirements? Why would the fed permit that?

You seem to know what would happen. Why didn't you just explain it to start with? However, I took your quiz, now please provide the answer in your words and not from a link that doesn't address the question directly.

As far as pushing more loans out the front of the bank, again, nothing dramatically changes. It just makes them marginally cheaper and has marginal impact. There is no cliff. Just a marginal shift in cost.

Treasuries Spinnerman-not banks borrowing from the FED.


You said the FED rate. As in the fed funds rate. For treasuries, the rate is not set by the government. It is set in the market via auction.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aOGXsWKEI6F4
Treasuries rose, pushing rates on the three-month bill negative for the first time, as investors gravitate toward the safety of U.S. government debt amid the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.


BTW, you still haven't explained what you believe would happen.

HA! the FED is buying a very large signicicant percentage of the market, without that buying, rates would soar! The OWN the market right now, but can't do this forever.....
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:44 pm

This is why it is bad....

The simple fact of the matter is that in a negative carry world – or a flat yield environment for that matter – there is no role or purpose for banks because banks are forced into economically destructive practices in order to stay profitable.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:05 pm

How so?
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:19 pm

assateague wrote:How so?

Banks make money by making loans. How long can they stay profitable if they have to pay people when they make a loan instead of people paying them?
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:39 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
assateague wrote:How so?

Banks make money by making loans. How long can they stay profitable if they have to pay people when they make a loan instead of people paying them?

There are all types of loans. Credit card loans will never get near zero. Neither will 30 year mortgages, but they were pretty damn low, but that had a lot to do with them being bought by the government without concern to risk and reward.

If they are getting very low rates, they will pay very low rates and at some point instead of paying you or not charging you for a savings or checking account, they will pass that cost on to you in the form of a negative rate for having an account at all.

I do however agree totally with your point that human nature being what it is, that when profits fall there is a nature tendency to take on more risk than reasonable for the expected return. The government is supposed to prevent that, but you know how reliable they are.

Indaswamp wrote:HA! the FED is buying a very large signicicant percentage of the market, without that buying, rates would soar! The OWN the market right now, but can't do this forever.....
The rates are still set in the market. The Fed confiscating wealth by devaluing the dollar by printing more INFLATES the rate. I agree. If they didn't artificially increase demand, which drives rates down (bond prices up) via legalized counterfeiting, the price in the market would fall dramatically (rates soaring) to find enough buyers to fill the demand taken up by the fed.

They could buy even more to the point where the rate goes negative. It's just more bad and costly behavior, but nothing magical happens when we cross 0% yield.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16187
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:35 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
assateague wrote:How so?

Banks make money by making loans. How long can they stay profitable if they have to pay people when they make a loan instead of people paying them?



I thought the Fed rate was only what the banks paid for money. So if the Fed rate is -.5%, but the bank is still charging 3.5%, say, for a home loan, they're still making 3 points on it. I freely admit I know next to nothing about this, though.
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby aunt betty » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:45 pm

I'd like to borrow six ducks and will pay you back six ducks.
Where is the profit?
If ducks were dollars...
How long til duck season?
:grooving:
INTERNET CREDIBILITY is...an OXYMORON. :moon:
User avatar
aunt betty
memberhip was not approved
 
Posts: 11696
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Go HOGS!

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:47 pm

assateague wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
assateague wrote:How so?

Banks make money by making loans. How long can they stay profitable if they have to pay people when they make a loan instead of people paying them?



I thought the Fed rate was only what the banks paid for money. So if the Fed rate is -.5%, but the bank is still charging 3.5%, say, for a home loan, they're still making 3 points on it. I freely admit I know next to nothing about this, though.

The spread is the same as if the FED rate were +.5% and the bank charged +4.5%, the difference is that with a -.5% Fed rate, the bank gets paid interest buy the motgagee (person that took out the mortgage) AND THE FED pays the bank .5% for taking the money! It will be a cold day in hell before that happens! In that environment, It will be a race to the bottom for bank profits...i.e. undercutting mortgage rates.

All one has to do is look at japan over the last 30 years, they never pulled out of the depression that hit with ZIRP (Zero interest rate policy)

Bottom line is that negative rates won't happen because it would precipitate a flight from the currency world wide and also would accelerate a death spiral for the currency.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:51 pm

Bur negative interest rates aside, you missed the thrust of the article spinnerman....
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby aunt betty » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:17 pm

Indaswamp wrote:Bur negative interest rates aside, you missed the thrust of the article spinnerman....

I aint too brite...I think it means the FED wants to pay banks to borrow. God, it would be great to be a bank. Turn around and lend it back for big projects etc.
Get paid to borrow and then get paid to loan it out.
Suppose the bank borrows from fed at -0.5% and makes loans at 3.5%...
That's 4% net...suh weet.

Am I getting it?

Can we kill the creature from jekyll island?
INTERNET CREDIBILITY is...an OXYMORON. :moon:
User avatar
aunt betty
memberhip was not approved
 
Posts: 11696
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Go HOGS!

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby cartervj » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:30 pm

aunt betty wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:Bur negative interest rates aside, you missed the thrust of the article spinnerman....

I aint too brite...I think it means the FED wants to pay banks to borrow. God, it would be great to be a bank. Turn around and lend it back for big projects etc.
Get paid to borrow and then get paid to loan it out.
Suppose the bank borrows from fed at -0.5% and makes loans at 3.5%...
That's 4% net...suh weet.

Am I getting it?

Can we kill the creature from jekyll island?



Kinda how it's been working

Off shore accounts buying stocks when the market was struggling

The Fed buying most of Treasures now, not foreign Countries or savy investors
“Nothing makes me more certain of the victory of our ideas than our success in the universities” – Adolf H, 1930
User avatar
cartervj
hunter
 
Posts: 7333
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: NW AL

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:41 pm

aunt betty wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:Bur negative interest rates aside, you missed the thrust of the article spinnerman....

I aint too brite...I think it means the FED wants to pay banks to borrow. God, it would be great to be a bank. Turn around and lend it back for big projects etc.
Get paid to borrow and then get paid to loan it out.
Suppose the bank borrows from fed at -0.5% and makes loans at 3.5%...
That's 4% net...suh weet.

Am I getting it?

Can we kill the creature from jekyll island?

You got the basics, but it will never happen, the FED will never do it .
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:57 pm

Indaswamp wrote:Bur negative interest rates aside, you missed the thrust of the article spinnerman....

When did I ever comment on the thrust of the article? :huh:

I just pointed out that made a statement that was not true.

Treasury rates can and have gone below zero. The Fed funds rate can, but there is policy that says it won't, and it probably will not.

When trying to make a technical argument, it is good to be technically accurate.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16187
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:42 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:Bur negative interest rates aside, you missed the thrust of the article spinnerman....

When did I ever comment on the thrust of the article? :huh:

I just pointed out that made a statement that was not true.

Treasury rates can and have gone below zero. The Fed funds rate can, but there is policy that says it won't, and it probably will not.

When trying to make a technical argument, it is good to be technically accurate.

Nope...
The Treasury, however, has never permitted buyers of T-bills (or longer-maturity Treasurys) to bid negative rates at auctions.


secondary markets and sales do not count...

They ARE currently discussing allowing rates to go negative, but it will fail.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:24 pm

The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:52 am

Indaswamp wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:When trying to make a technical argument, it is good to be technically accurate.

Nope...

Is that what you really meant?

Indaswamp wrote:
The Treasury, however, has never permitted buyers of T-bills (or longer-maturity Treasurys) to bid negative rates at auctions.


secondary markets and sales do not count...

They ARE currently discussing allowing rates to go negative, but it will fail.

So rates CAN go negative. That's all I said. :huh:

BTW, is it good for America if people are willing to buy them for such a high price that rates are negative and the treasury refuses?

And the secondary market does count. It is just as real as the initial sale of the note. Not allowing them to go negative just sounds like the Treasury giving cash to the big investors that buy the bulk of them so they can turn around and flip them for a profit in the secondary market if the going rate is negative.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16187
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:33 pm

...sigh....never mind spinnerman.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:43 pm

I read some of your links. I don't have time for all of them. But there is so much that is poorly done, poorly worded, or just appears to be intentionally misleading. It doesn't mean they are wrong. It raise the question of why not be a lot more skeptical about what they are saying.

For example.

Image

There is no correction for the fact that there are roughly 40% more people and median household income is up over 200% and the total value of their compensation is almost certainly up much more than that because benefits packages have general grown faster because of health care costs.

To account for both of these you need to divide the 2012 numbers by approximately a factor of 4 for a debt to income ratio and maybe hire if you include other compensation.

So now instead of having going from around $5T to near $60T, you go from a value of 5 to around 15. Is that good? Probably not. But does it convey the same doomsday message? :no: :huh:

Given that the debt is high correlated with population and income growth, how do you separate cause and effect? Not with sloppy graphs and sloppy language. That is for sure.

He may be right, but his approach raises as many red flags as the IPCC methodology.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16187
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:01 pm

You are looking at in in way too absolute terms spinnerman. How was that income increase possible? Through debt. Corporate debt, household debt, government debt....debt, debt, debt....

That debt expansion has hit a wall and can not continue at it's current growth rate. as evidenced in the graph EVEN WITH MASSIVE GOV. DEFICITS AND MASSIVE QE FROM THE FED.!
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby aunt betty » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:44 pm

Spinner has never had to live on the edge of financial ruin...paycheck to paycheck going further and further in debt until the power, cable, and water gets turned off so how could he possibly understand the consequences of a snowballing debt. He's oblivious.

Its not a snowball but one made of mud.

Eventually you have to sacrifice every luxury and start peeling back the layers.
Get ready to suffer...
INTERNET CREDIBILITY is...an OXYMORON. :moon:
User avatar
aunt betty
memberhip was not approved
 
Posts: 11696
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Go HOGS!

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:25 am

Indaswamp wrote:How was that income increase possible? Through debt.
That is the assertion.

As we discussed before. The debt after WWII was sky high and it fell for awhile and the economy did just fine and dandy :huh:

Consumer debt is more an indication of the irresponsible and childish behavior that is more common because we want to treat adults in their early to mid 20's as if they are still young teenagers.

The government debt is an extension of this childish and immature behavior.

Business debt has a lot to do with tax policy. If you finance the investment with equity, it gets less favorable tax treatment. So you can borrow money from me to finance my investment and I'll get the tax advantage and I'll loan money to you and you get the favorable tax treatment.

Regardless of who the money is borrowed from, it does NOT create wealth. It is the creation of wealth that has made the increase in real income possible. Inflation, devaluation of the dollar, doesn't make the real debt larger, it simply makes all of the numbers larger. You need to correct for both.

And like the global warming question. What is the optimum level? For optimum economic efficiency, you can have too little debt and you can have too much debt. What is the optimum level of all the different types of debt? It is not zero.

aunt betty wrote:Spinner has never had to live on the edge of financial ruin...paycheck to paycheck going further and further in debt until the power, cable, and water gets turned off so how could he possibly understand the consequences of a snowballing debt. He's oblivious.

Its not a snowball but one made of mud.

Eventually you have to sacrifice every luxury and start peeling back the layers.
Get ready to suffer...

And would that debt that causes this problem not be determined by how much income you make? If I had a million dollars in debt, it would be crushing. If Bill Gates had a million dollars in debt, he wouldn't even notice any more than if I loaned you five bucks.

BTW, everybody has the opportunity to run themselves into financial ruin. Just because I chose not to do so, how does that make me oblivious. I lived off a very low income for a long time, so doesn't that make me enlightened in our world where success is a negative.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16187
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:32 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:How was that income increase possible? Through debt.
That is the assertion.

As we discussed before. The debt after WWII was sky high and it fell for awhile and the economy did just fine and dandy :huh:

Consumer debt is more an indication of the irresponsible and childish behavior that is more common because we want to treat adults in their early to mid 20's as if they are still young teenagers.

The government debt is an extension of this childish and immature behavior.

Business debt has a lot to do with tax policy. If you finance the investment with equity, it gets less favorable tax treatment. So you can borrow money from me to finance my investment and I'll get the tax advantage and I'll loan money to you and you get the favorable tax treatment.

Regardless of who the money is borrowed from, it does NOT create wealth. It is the creation of wealth that has made the increase in real income possible. Inflation, devaluation of the dollar, doesn't make the real debt larger, it simply makes all of the numbers larger. You need to correct for both.

And like the global warming question. What is the optimum level? For optimum economic efficiency, you can have too little debt and you can have too much debt. What is the optimum level of all the different types of debt? It is not zero.

aunt betty wrote:Spinner has never had to live on the edge of financial ruin...paycheck to paycheck going further and further in debt until the power, cable, and water gets turned off so how could he possibly understand the consequences of a snowballing debt. He's oblivious.

Its not a snowball but one made of mud.

Eventually you have to sacrifice every luxury and start peeling back the layers.
Get ready to suffer...

And would that debt that causes this problem not be determined by how much income you make? If I had a million dollars in debt, it would be crushing. If Bill Gates had a million dollars in debt, he wouldn't even notice any more than if I loaned you five bucks.

BTW, everybody has the opportunity to run themselves into financial ruin. Just because I chose not to do so, how does that make me oblivious. I lived off a very low income for a long time, so doesn't that make me enlightened in our world where success is a negative.

Your ideas of what constitute : money, debt, wealth, and their relation to each other are the main reason for our communication difficulties.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: The "Big Economic Lie" and why rates matter...

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:36 am

re WWI debt....

the rest of the world's production capacity was blown to bits because of the war. America was left intact and was able to utilize that capacity to export massively around the world. It was a unique set of circumstances that are in no way similar to today. The differences are many. To many to rehash here for the umpteenth time....
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

PreviousNext

Return to Controversial Issues Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests