Wealth inequality in the USA.

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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby assateague » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:01 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
assateague wrote:You should go read Atlas Shrugged.

I have, several times, AT. I find it sophomoric and appalling in the concepts it promotes.




Specifically which concepts do you find sophomoric and appalling? This should be enlightening.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:30 pm

clampdaddy wrote:The business world IS at the point of oligarchy. Don't think so? See who's been exempted from Obamacare. Examples like this are not results of "unbridled" capitalism, it is a result of "crony" capitalism.

Unbridled capitalism is what inevitably leads to crony capitalism. If there were good functioning laws in place to regulate the market and keep it reasonably fair, you wouldn't get cronyism because that is one of the things that would be regulated against, and harshly. I'm really curious as to just how unregulated a system you think could work
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:38 pm

assateague wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
assateague wrote:You should go read Atlas Shrugged.

I have, several times, AT. I find it sophomoric and appalling in the concepts it promotes.




Specifically which concepts do you find sophomoric and appalling? This should be enlightening.

Rand is the laziest novelist I have ever read, and the depths of her demagoguery know no bounds. AS is supposed to be set here, but she engineers the landscape in such a way (all in order to support her premises) that it really is nothing like any USA that ever existed (thank God) I'd have respected it more (and that would not be much) if she'd just admitted the novel was set in a fantasy society of her own creation. It's the ultimate straw man. I guess I can give her credit for that
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:55 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:The business world IS at the point of oligarchy. Don't think so? See who's been exempted from Obamacare. Examples like this are not results of "unbridled" capitalism, it is a result of "crony" capitalism.

Unbridled capitalism is what inevitably leads to crony capitalism. If there were good functioning laws in place to regulate the market and keep it reasonably fair, you wouldn't get cronyism because that is one of the things that would be regulated against, and harshly. I'm really curious as to just how unregulated a system you think could work


Who do you suppose make the laws that regulate business?
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:02 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:The business world IS at the point of oligarchy. Don't think so? See who's been exempted from Obamacare. Examples like this are not results of "unbridled" capitalism, it is a result of "crony" capitalism.

Unbridled capitalism is what inevitably leads to crony capitalism. If there were good functioning laws in place to regulate the market and keep it reasonably fair, you wouldn't get cronyism because that is one of the things that would be regulated against, and harshly. I'm really curious as to just how unregulated a system you think could work


Who do you suppose make the laws that regulate business?

lemme think............. the legislators elected by the people to perform that function?
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:07 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:The business world IS at the point of oligarchy. Don't think so? See who's been exempted from Obamacare. Examples like this are not results of "unbridled" capitalism, it is a result of "crony" capitalism.

Unbridled capitalism is what inevitably leads to crony capitalism. If there were good functioning laws in place to regulate the market and keep it reasonably fair, you wouldn't get cronyism because that is one of the things that would be regulated against, and harshly. I'm really curious as to just how unregulated a system you think could work


Who do you suppose make the laws that regulate business?

lemme think............. the legislators elected by the people to perform that function?

Who are bankrolled by........? (Hint: its not mom and pop)
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:38 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:Again, Atlas Shrugged not Lord of the Flies. You're trying to say that cricket and baseball are the same game because someone throws a ball and someone swings a bat.

Jeez cd, are you wasted again? Baseball is a sport, cricket is an insect! :lol3: By the way....what does the new smiley represent? It looks like a flabby breast being forced into a small bra to me!

By saying "again" you assume that there was a time during our acquaintance that I wasn't. :lol3: I have no clue what that new emoticon is. Must be a Canadian thing.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:08 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:The business world IS at the point of oligarchy. Don't think so? See who's been exempted from Obamacare. Examples like this are not results of "unbridled" capitalism, it is a result of "crony" capitalism.

Unbridled capitalism is what inevitably leads to crony capitalism. If there were good functioning laws in place to regulate the market and keep it reasonably fair, you wouldn't get cronyism because that is one of the things that would be regulated against, and harshly. I'm really curious as to just how unregulated a system you think could work


Who do you suppose make the laws that regulate business?

lemme think............. the legislators elected by the people to perform that function?

Who are bankrolled by........? (Hint: its not mom and pop)

That would be an argument for good government, not zero oversight. If your police force were mobbed up, would you clean out the force and replace them with good LEOs, or just say "Oh the hell with cops!! Who needs 'em anyhow?"
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:24 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
assateague wrote:You should go read Atlas Shrugged.

I have, several times, AT. I find it sophomoric and appalling in the concepts it promotes.




Specifically which concepts do you find sophomoric and appalling? This should be enlightening.

Rand is the laziest novelist I have ever read, and the depths of her demagoguery know no bounds. AS is supposed to be set here, but she engineers the landscape in such a way (all in order to support her premises) that it really is nothing like any USA that ever existed (thank God) I'd have respected it more (and that would not be much) if she'd just admitted the novel was set in a fantasy society of her own creation. It's the ultimate straw man. I guess I can give her credit for that

So there, AT! :lol3: Someone with a more subtle grasp of written communication than I answered for me! It's good to have "Mad Dog" on your side when you are more of the nipping pekinese type! :lol3:
However, should you wish to hear my less literate condemnation of Atlas Shrugged, just let me know. Raw criticism of someone's mentor can be fun in the right situation! At least when it is promulgated by one with no animosity towards the other, which would be the case.:thumbsup:
Last edited by Glimmerjim on Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:26 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:Again, Atlas Shrugged not Lord of the Flies. You're trying to say that cricket and baseball are the same game because someone throws a ball and someone swings a bat.

Jeez cd, are you wasted again? Baseball is a sport, cricket is an insect! :lol3: By the way....what does the new smiley represent? It looks like a flabby breast being forced into a small bra to me!

By saying "again" you assume that there was a time during our acquaintance that I wasn't. :lol3: I have no clue what that new emoticon is. Must be a Canadian thing.

:lol3: :lol3: :thumbsup:
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:42 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:The business world IS at the point of oligarchy. Don't think so? See who's been exempted from Obamacare. Examples like this are not results of "unbridled" capitalism, it is a result of "crony" capitalism.

Unbridled capitalism is what inevitably leads to crony capitalism. If there were good functioning laws in place to regulate the market and keep it reasonably fair, you wouldn't get cronyism because that is one of the things that would be regulated against, and harshly. I'm really curious as to just how unregulated a system you think could work


Who do you suppose make the laws that regulate business?

lemme think............. the legislators elected by the people to perform that function?

Who are bankrolled by........? (Hint: its not mom and pop)

That would be an argument for good government, not zero oversight. If your police force were mobbed up, would you clean out the force and replace them with good LEOs, or just say "Oh the hell with cops!! Who needs 'em anyhow?"


Again, another scenario that has nothing to do with the point at hand. Your scenario is akin to doing away with all politicians because there are bad ones, but you simply can not clean crony capitalism out of politics as long as politicians are dealing with big business men. This is not a right or left thing. Both sides are complicit. Vote out one politician, guess who takes his place.....another politician, and chances are he got campaign funding from someone important who expects a favor in return.

The Amish come to mind. How many of their houses do you think were built by a licenced, bonded contractor?
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:54 pm

[

clampdaddy wrote: Again, another scenario that has nothing to do with the point at hand. Your scenario is akin to doing away with all politicians because there are bad ones, but you simply can not clean crony capitalism out of politics as long as politicians are dealing with big business men. This is not a right or left thing. Both sides are complicit. Vote out one politician, guess who takes his place.....another politician, and chances are he got campaign funding from someone important who expects a favor in return.



True, cd, but the obvious ramifications of the inequality of such a system are legislature that is being addressed as we speak. So, therefore, governmental regulation is attempting to produce a more equitable situation at this very moment in time. Perhaps governmental regulation can have more positive effects at times than its absence can. (?)
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby cartervj » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:41 pm

A great start would be Obama's campaign promise of getting rid of Lobbyist.
Instead he hired many to work for him. Lying politicians.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby assateague » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:58 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
assateague wrote:You should go read Atlas Shrugged.

I have, several times, AT. I find it sophomoric and appalling in the concepts it promotes.




Specifically which concepts do you find sophomoric and appalling? This should be enlightening.

Rand is the laziest novelist I have ever read, and the depths of her demagoguery know no bounds. AS is supposed to be set here, but she engineers the landscape in such a way (all in order to support her premises) that it really is nothing like any USA that ever existed (thank God) I'd have respected it more (and that would not be much) if she'd just admitted the novel was set in a fantasy society of her own creation. It's the ultimate straw man. I guess I can give her credit for that

So there, AT! :lol3: Someone with a more subtle grasp of written communication than I answered for me! It's good to have "Mad Dog" on your side when you are more of the nipping pekinese type! :lol3:
However, should you wish to hear my less literate condemnation of Atlas Shrugged, just let me know. Raw criticism of someone's mentor can be fun in the right situation! At least when it is promulgated by one with no animosity towards the other, which would be the case.:thumbsup:


:lol3: Nice try!

Neither one of you spoke to the "concepts it promotes" which you find appalling. If we were talking about writing style, or setting and plot, sure. But you weren't. You were speaking to the concepts it promoted.

So, again, which concepts that the novel promoted to you find appalling?
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:08 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:[

clampdaddy wrote: Again, another scenario that has nothing to do with the point at hand. Your scenario is akin to doing away with all politicians because there are bad ones, but you simply can not clean crony capitalism out of politics as long as politicians are dealing with big business men. This is not a right or left thing. Both sides are complicit. Vote out one politician, guess who takes his place.....another politician, and chances are he got campaign funding from someone important who expects a favor in return.



True, cd, but the obvious ramifications of the inequality of such a system are legislature that is being addressed as we speak. So, therefore, governmental regulation is attempting to produce a more equitable situation at this very moment in time. Perhaps governmental regulation can have more positive effects at times than its absence can. (?)

The governmental regulation over time is what has caused this inequality. Using the Amish as an example, they have isolated themselves from this experiment we have been trying and it has worked for them. They use an almost completely unregulated business system and this has produced a situation where the reputation of a man and his product are the sole regulators of his business. If he provides a good service or product the word gets out and comes out ahead of his competition.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby cartervj » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:18 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:[

clampdaddy wrote: Again, another scenario that has nothing to do with the point at hand. Your scenario is akin to doing away with all politicians because there are bad ones, but you simply can not clean crony capitalism out of politics as long as politicians are dealing with big business men. This is not a right or left thing. Both sides are complicit. Vote out one politician, guess who takes his place.....another politician, and chances are he got campaign funding from someone important who expects a favor in return.



True, cd, but the obvious ramifications of the inequality of such a system are legislature that is being addressed as we speak. So, therefore, governmental regulation is attempting to produce a more equitable situation at this very moment in time. Perhaps governmental regulation can have more positive effects at times than its absence can. (?)

The governmental regulation over time is what has caused this inequality. Using the Amish as an example, they have isolated themselves from this experiment we have been trying and it has worked for them. They use an almost completely unregulated business system and this has produced a situation where the reputation of a man and his product are the sole regulators of his business. If he provides a good service or product the word gets out and comes out ahead of his competition.



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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:37 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:The business world IS at the point of oligarchy. Don't think so? See who's been exempted from Obamacare. Examples like this are not results of "unbridled" capitalism, it is a result of "crony" capitalism.

Unbridled capitalism is what inevitably leads to crony capitalism. If there were good functioning laws in place to regulate the market and keep it reasonably fair, you wouldn't get cronyism because that is one of the things that would be regulated against, and harshly. I'm really curious as to just how unregulated a system you think could work


Who do you suppose make the laws that regulate business?

lemme think............. the legislators elected by the people to perform that function?

Who are bankrolled by........? (Hint: its not mom and pop)

That would be an argument for good government, not zero oversight. If your police force were mobbed up, would you clean out the force and replace them with good LEOs, or just say "Oh the hell with cops!! Who needs 'em anyhow?"


Again, another scenario that has nothing to do with the point at hand. Your scenario is akin to doing away with all politicians because there are bad ones, but you simply can not clean crony capitalism out of politics as long as politicians are dealing with big business men. This is not a right or left thing. Both sides are complicit. Vote out one politician, guess who takes his place.....another politician, and chances are he got campaign funding from someone important who expects a favor in return.

The Amish come to mind. How many of their houses do you think were built by a licenced, bonded contractor?

We don't disagree as much as you think here, CD. Crony capitalism is evidence of bad, corrupt government (like a mobbed up police force) I want good government that will confront such dealings (an interesting aside is that the only person I can think of who appears ready willing and able to take on the corruption, Elizabeth Warren, is hated by the right because of that ridiculous "Indian" thing. You'd think the right would recognize there are bigger fish to fry, but they don't, and it's one reason I question how really committed they are to the issue)
So your solution is to get rid of all oversight?
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:39 pm

cartervj wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:[

clampdaddy wrote: Again, another scenario that has nothing to do with the point at hand. Your scenario is akin to doing away with all politicians because there are bad ones, but you simply can not clean crony capitalism out of politics as long as politicians are dealing with big business men. This is not a right or left thing. Both sides are complicit. Vote out one politician, guess who takes his place.....another politician, and chances are he got campaign funding from someone important who expects a favor in return.



True, cd, but the obvious ramifications of the inequality of such a system are legislature that is being addressed as we speak. So, therefore, governmental regulation is attempting to produce a more equitable situation at this very moment in time. Perhaps governmental regulation can have more positive effects at times than its absence can. (?)

The governmental regulation over time is what has caused this inequality. Using the Amish as an example, they have isolated themselves from this experiment we have been trying and it has worked for them. They use an almost completely unregulated business system and this has produced a situation where the reputation of a man and his product are the sole regulators of his business. If he provides a good service or product the word gets out and comes out ahead of his competition.



Worked well for me in my business, never advertised, word of mouth only. :thumbsup:

The Amish have one of the most intensely regulated society on earth. It's just a ridiculous example.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby Rat Creek » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:48 pm

Three points:

1) Crony Capitalism is Obama's game pure and simple. No president has every stacked the odds more against true free markets. I know the useful idiots on here just cannot believe that their Dear Leader is just another crony hack, but the truth is the truth.

2) Please, please, please, I am begging that you useful idiots yet again set up your communist/socialists/progressive utopia in some other location and prove to the world that it can be done with you in power. Nuff said.

3) As for wealth or income disparity, so freaking what. Its called freedom. The only way to correct for that is point number two. Please, please, please go make your perfect world. I will contribute to your leaving this country that was designed to be free.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:55 pm

Rat Creek wrote:Three points:

1) Crony Capitalism is Obama's game pure and simple. No president has every stacked the odds more against true free markets. I know the useful idiots on here just cannot believe that their Dear Leader is just another crony hack, but the truth is the truth.

2) Please, please, please, I am begging that you useful idiots yet again set up your communist/socialists/progressive utopia in some other location and prove to the world that it can be done with you in power. Nuff said.

3) As for wealth or income disparity, so freaking what. Its called freedom. The only way to correct for that is point number two. Please, please, please go make your perfect world. I will contribute to your leaving this country that was designed to be free.

Let's see, Rat......it used to be the bowing, now it's the "useful idiots" insults. You're a moron
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:08 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
cartervj wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:[

clampdaddy wrote: Again, another scenario that has nothing to do with the point at hand. Your scenario is akin to doing away with all politicians because there are bad ones, but you simply can not clean crony capitalism out of politics as long as politicians are dealing with big business men. This is not a right or left thing. Both sides are complicit. Vote out one politician, guess who takes his place.....another politician, and chances are he got campaign funding from someone important who expects a favor in return.



True, cd, but the obvious ramifications of the inequality of such a system are legislature that is being addressed as we speak. So, therefore, governmental regulation is attempting to produce a more equitable situation at this very moment in time. Perhaps governmental regulation can have more positive effects at times than its absence can. (?)

The governmental regulation over time is what has caused this inequality. Using the Amish as an example, they have isolated themselves from this experiment we have been trying and it has worked for them. They use an almost completely unregulated business system and this has produced a situation where the reputation of a man and his product are the sole regulators of his business. If he provides a good service or product the word gets out and comes out ahead of his competition.



Worked well for me in my business, never advertised, word of mouth only. :thumbsup:

The Amish have one of the most intensely regulated society on earth. It's just a ridiculous example.

How involved in their business is our government? Their strict moral code is their business oversight.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:22 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:The business world IS at the point of oligarchy. Don't think so? See who's been exempted from Obamacare. Examples like this are not results of "unbridled" capitalism, it is a result of "crony" capitalism.

Unbridled capitalism is what inevitably leads to crony capitalism. If there were good functioning laws in place to regulate the market and keep it reasonably fair, you wouldn't get cronyism because that is one of the things that would be regulated against, and harshly. I'm really curious as to just how unregulated a system you think could work


Who do you suppose make the laws that regulate business?

lemme think............. the legislators elected by the people to perform that function?

Who are bankrolled by........? (Hint: its not mom and pop)

That would be an argument for good government, not zero oversight. If your police force were mobbed up, would you clean out the force and replace them with good LEOs, or just say "Oh the hell with cops!! Who needs 'em anyhow?"


Again, another scenario that has nothing to do with the point at hand. Your scenario is akin to doing away with all politicians because there are bad ones, but you simply can not clean crony capitalism out of politics as long as politicians are dealing with big business men. This is not a right or left thing. Both sides are complicit. Vote out one politician, guess who takes his place.....another politician, and chances are he got campaign funding from someone important who expects a favor in return.

The Amish come to mind. How many of their houses do you think were built by a licenced, bonded contractor?

We don't disagree as much as you think here, CD. Crony capitalism is evidence of bad, corrupt government (like a mobbed up police force) I want good government that will confront such dealings (an interesting aside is that the only person I can think of who appears ready willing and able to take on the corruption, Elizabeth Warren, is hated by the right because of that ridiculous "Indian" thing. You'd think the right would recognize there are bigger fish to fry, but they don't, and it's one reason I question how really committed they are to the issue)
So your solution is to get rid of all oversight?


I'm all for having a few labor and environmental protection guidelines but for the most pat I say the government should be in charge of building roads and raising an army. Let true the free market under true capitalism set its own policy. Consumers and their pocketbooks will iron it out. I have no qualms about admitting that if we did it right now it would be utter chaos for quite a while as things resettled.

This isn't a right or a left thing. It's a right AND a left thing. The Warren Buffets and George Soros' of the world don't want it changed and their minions aren't trying to either.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby assateague » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:59 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:The Amish have one of the most intensely regulated society on earth. It's just a ridiculous example.



Are you crazy? What regulations does the government impose on them?
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:30 pm

assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:The Amish have one of the most intensely regulated society on earth. It's just a ridiculous example.



Are you crazy? What regulations does the government impose on them?

That's some serious myopia you got goin' on there, brother........
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby assateague » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:31 pm

I'm being serious.
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Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

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