10 things only idiots will ignore

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10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby slowshooter » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:43 pm

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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:27 pm


What the house should have done, is ended the session Sine Die. Then all the senate could do would be a straight up or down vote. And the President could either sign the bill or veto it.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:51 am

5. Republicans need remedial lessons in game theory. If you aren’t willing to send the country over the cliff, and your opponent is will into screw the American people for political gain, there’s no hope for the country if people keep voting for them just like what happened in Detroit.

6. Ted Cruz scares the crap out of the charlatan on both sides of the aisle. This is why both sides attack him including the ones that spend money to close unmanned monuments to maximize pain for their political gain.

9. Warren Buffett came up with the best quote of the crisis: “Creditworthiness is like virginity. It can be preserved but not restored very easily” and that is why the President threatened to do it even though it would not have been necessary under any circumstance and the fools on the left would have blamed Bush.

10. We get to do it all again in January and February. But next time, we’ll all be aware in advance that the G.O.P.’s threats to force a debt default are empty but the President's are not. He will trash the country if it helps his ego.

The Republican establishment is a bunch of idiots, but nothing compared to those that think Obama did no wrong :bow: :bow: :bow:
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby vincentpa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:54 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
The Republican establishment is a bunch of idiots, but nothing compared to those that think Obama did no wrong :bow: :bow: :bow:


How can you call the establishment a bunch of idiots? The "Establishment" had a strategy to take on Barry over the debt ceiling where they held a stronger hand. The dumbasses like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and a handful of idiots in the House thought they would make a show by shutting the government down over defunding Barrycare. They never had a prayer of winning that battle from only one house of Congress and they knew it. They undercut Boehner's and McConnell's hand in dealing with the Democrats over the debt ceiling. They didn't just undercut them, they destroyed their position. Now, Barry got almost everything he wanted AND the Republicans look like idiots. I'm sure Napoleon, Alexander or Patton would have loved to stand on the opposing side of the battlefield with strategically minded geniuses like those guys. I’m tired of hearing about the conservative message. Their message goes unheard because they are constantly doing stupid things that overshadows the message. As you well know, people that do stupid things can't be right about anything… That's how it's played by Barry and his pals in the MSM and, it's working. What fools they are! There hasn't been a president this incompetent politically that I know of. They should be chewing this guy up. Instead, they try to outdo him in foolishness and stupidity to demonstrate they are even more incompetent than he. Barry doesn't even have to try to manuveor to win. All he has to do is sit back and let the Republicans(or I should say a small group of Republicans) serve themselves up.

This wasn’t the first time that cadre of idiots undercut Boehner. Remember the $600+ billion in tax hikes Barry extracted from the House in December because the Tea Party House Republicans voted down Boehner's Plan B? What jackasses! It's painful to watch grown men self-destruct by acting foolishly when you know what they truly stand for is the correct way.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby beretta24 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:06 am

SpinnerMan wrote:5. Republicans need remedial lessons in game theory. If you aren’t willing to send the country over the cliff, and your opponent is will into screw the American people for political gain, there’s no hope for the country if people keep voting for them just like what happened in Detroit.

6. Ted Cruz scares the crap out of the charlatan on both sides of the aisle. This is why both sides attack him including the ones that spend money to close unmanned monuments to maximize pain for their political gain.

9. Warren Buffett came up with the best quote of the crisis: “Creditworthiness is like virginity. It can be preserved but not restored very easily” and that is why the President threatened to do it even though it would not have been necessary under any circumstance and the fools on the left would have blamed Bush.

10. We get to do it all again in January and February. But next time, we’ll all be aware in advance that the G.O.P.’s threats to force a debt default are empty but the President's are not. He will trash the country if it helps his ego.

The Republican establishment is a bunch of idiots, but nothing compared to those that think Obama did no wrong :bow: :bow: :bow:

And this is why I said their tactic was crap weeks ago. They had a poor message with little backing, and let Obama squeak in subsidies without any significant challenge. Now they all look like fools.

Boehner needs the boot.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:00 am

There are some seriously blind people on this forum.

Tactics gentlemen.

End game means more than short term in tactics. Always has, always will. The pieces are maneuvering and being positioned.

The real problem is that those trying to fix things are still politicians which means we will get more of the same no matter who wins.
Last edited by ScaupHunter on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby beretta24 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:20 am

ScaupHunter wrote:There are some seriously blind people on this forum.

Tactics gentlemnen.

End game means more than short term in tactics. Always has, always will. The pieces are maneuvering and being positioned.

The real problem is that those trying to fix things are still politicians which means we will get more of the same no matter who wins.

You keep talking about tactics as if there is some master plan, and things are going according to plan. Please explain and spare us the generalities.

I have explained why the game they played on the shutdown was a losing game, and why I thought it was SHORT sighted (largely in another thread). Please shed some light on your perspective.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby Gabagool » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:24 am

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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby assateague » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:06 am

vincentpa wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
The Republican establishment is a bunch of idiots, but nothing compared to those that think Obama did no wrong :bow: :bow: :bow:


How can you call the establishment a bunch of idiots? The "Establishment" had a strategy to take on Barry over the debt ceiling where they held a stronger hand. The dumbasses like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and a handful of idiots in the House thought they would make a show by shutting the government down over defunding Barrycare. They never had a prayer of winning that battle from only one house of Congress and they knew it. They undercut Boehner's and McConnell's hand in dealing with the Democrats over the debt ceiling. They didn't just undercut them, they destroyed their position. Now, Barry got almost everything he wanted AND the Republicans look like idiots. I'm sure Napoleon, Alexander or Patton would have loved to stand on the opposing side of the battlefield with strategically minded geniuses like those guys. I’m tired of hearing about the conservative message. Their message goes unheard because they are constantly doing stupid things that overshadows the message. As you well know, people that do stupid things can't be right about anything… That's how it's played by Barry and his pals in the MSM and, it's working. What fools they are! There hasn't been a president this incompetent politically that I know of. They should be chewing this guy up. Instead, they try to outdo him in foolishness and stupidity to demonstrate they are even more incompetent than he. Barry doesn't even have to try to manuveor to win. All he has to do is sit back and let the Republicans(or I should say a small group of Republicans) serve themselves up.

This wasn’t the first time that cadre of idiots undercut Boehner. Remember the $600+ billion in tax hikes Barry extracted from the House in December because the Tea Party House Republicans voted down Boehner's Plan B? What jackasses! It's painful to watch grown men self-destruct by acting foolishly when you know what they truly stand for is the correct way.




When 10 armed thugs show up to rape my wife, am I an "idiot" for trying to fight them off with a steak knife? It'd sure make more sense to just let them have their way, and then try to mitigate the mess later. What if they decide they're gonna burn my house down? I should let them, right? Because I'd be an "idiot" to try and fight them off by myself. And hey, I have insurance. I mean, in none of those circumstances do I have a chance of winning, so why bother fighting?

I can't believe how many people are just willing to throw principles out the window when it's convenient. Frankly, it makes me sick. If you believe in something, you fight for it. At least I do. It doesn't matter if there doesn't look like any possible way for me to win. Sometimes, it's not about winning, but about inspiring someone else to also fight. For ****'s sake, stop allowing politics to come before principle.


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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:15 am

vincentpa wrote:The dumbasses like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and a handful of idiots in the House thought they would make a show by shutting the government down over defunding Barrycare.
That is not true. Defunding Obamacare was off the table BEFORE the shutdown. Delaying the individual mandate just like Obama delayed the employer mandate was the only thing still on the table.

This it the problem. Even those on the right don't know what they are talking about when they attack the only people that they can work with to achieve the ends they claim they wish. Obama and the media played you like a fiddle play the tune of their talking points for them.

McCain et. al. had declared surrender before it started. With tactics like that, it was doomed to failure.

But yes, the establishment looks to hold the line and not move the ball forward. The Dems get power. They expand government. The Republicans get some and they argue about how to pay for the bigger government. The ratchet just keeps tightening and they can't even push for any changes in Obamacare. Not the medical device tax, not the individual mandate even with Obama giving a freebie to business. How can you not win that argument?

You always ask for more than you will get. That is the only tactic that helps you get as much as you can. But the establishment doesn't seem to really want anything. They got to go.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby trowlan1 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:37 am

assateague wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
The Republican establishment is a bunch of idiots, but nothing compared to those that think Obama did no wrong :bow: :bow: :bow:


How can you call the establishment a bunch of idiots? The "Establishment" had a strategy to take on Barry over the debt ceiling where they held a stronger hand. The dumbasses like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and a handful of idiots in the House thought they would make a show by shutting the government down over defunding Barrycare. They never had a prayer of winning that battle from only one house of Congress and they knew it. They undercut Boehner's and McConnell's hand in dealing with the Democrats over the debt ceiling. They didn't just undercut them, they destroyed their position. Now, Barry got almost everything he wanted AND the Republicans look like idiots. I'm sure Napoleon, Alexander or Patton would have loved to stand on the opposing side of the battlefield with strategically minded geniuses like those guys. I’m tired of hearing about the conservative message. Their message goes unheard because they are constantly doing stupid things that overshadows the message. As you well know, people that do stupid things can't be right about anything… That's how it's played by Barry and his pals in the MSM and, it's working. What fools they are! There hasn't been a president this incompetent politically that I know of. They should be chewing this guy up. Instead, they try to outdo him in foolishness and stupidity to demonstrate they are even more incompetent than he. Barry doesn't even have to try to manuveor to win. All he has to do is sit back and let the Republicans(or I should say a small group of Republicans) serve themselves up.

This wasn’t the first time that cadre of idiots undercut Boehner. Remember the $600+ billion in tax hikes Barry extracted from the House in December because the Tea Party House Republicans voted down Boehner's Plan B? What jackasses! It's painful to watch grown men self-destruct by acting foolishly when you know what they truly stand for is the correct way.




When 10 armed thugs show up to rape my wife, am I an "idiot" for trying to fight them off with a steak knife? It'd sure make more sense to just let them have their way, and then try to mitigate the mess later. What if they decide they're gonna burn my house down? I should let them, right? Because I'd be an "idiot" to try and fight them off by myself. And hey, I have insurance. I mean, in none of those circumstances do I have a chance of winning, so why bother fighting?

I can't believe how many people are just willing to throw principles out the window when it's convenient. Frankly, it makes me sick. If you believe in something, you fight for it. At least I do. It doesn't matter if there doesn't look like any possible way for me to win. Sometimes, it's not about winning, but about inspiring someone else to also fight. For ****'s sake, stop allowing politics to come before principle.


A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free
unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.


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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby vincentpa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:51 pm

assateague wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
The Republican establishment is a bunch of idiots, but nothing compared to those that think Obama did no wrong :bow: :bow: :bow:


How can you call the establishment a bunch of idiots? The "Establishment" had a strategy to take on Barry over the debt ceiling where they held a stronger hand. The dumbasses like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and a handful of idiots in the House thought they would make a show by shutting the government down over defunding Barrycare. They never had a prayer of winning that battle from only one house of Congress and they knew it. They undercut Boehner's and McConnell's hand in dealing with the Democrats over the debt ceiling. They didn't just undercut them, they destroyed their position. Now, Barry got almost everything he wanted AND the Republicans look like idiots. I'm sure Napoleon, Alexander or Patton would have loved to stand on the opposing side of the battlefield with strategically minded geniuses like those guys. I’m tired of hearing about the conservative message. Their message goes unheard because they are constantly doing stupid things that overshadows the message. As you well know, people that do stupid things can't be right about anything… That's how it's played by Barry and his pals in the MSM and, it's working. What fools they are! There hasn't been a president this incompetent politically that I know of. They should be chewing this guy up. Instead, they try to outdo him in foolishness and stupidity to demonstrate they are even more incompetent than he. Barry doesn't even have to try to manuveor to win. All he has to do is sit back and let the Republicans(or I should say a small group of Republicans) serve themselves up.

This wasn’t the first time that cadre of idiots undercut Boehner. Remember the $600+ billion in tax hikes Barry extracted from the House in December because the Tea Party House Republicans voted down Boehner's Plan B? What jackasses! It's painful to watch grown men self-destruct by acting foolishly when you know what they truly stand for is the correct way.




When 10 armed thugs show up to rape my wife, am I an "idiot" for trying to fight them off with a steak knife? It'd sure make more sense to just let them have their way, and then try to mitigate the mess later. What if they decide they're gonna burn my house down? I should let them, right? Because I'd be an "idiot" to try and fight them off by myself. And hey, I have insurance. I mean, in none of those circumstances do I have a chance of winning, so why bother fighting?

I can't believe how many people are just willing to throw principles out the window when it's convenient. Frankly, it makes me sick. If you believe in something, you fight for it. At least I do. It doesn't matter if there doesn't look like any possible way for me to win. Sometimes, it's not about winning, but about inspiring someone else to also fight. For ****'s sake, stop allowing politics to come before principle.


A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free
unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.



Your analogies are ridiculous as the Tea Party government shutdown. They don't even remotely apply. .
An old bull and a young bull are standing on top of the hill in the pasture. They see a herd of good looking cows at the base of the hill grazing. The young bull says to the old bull, "let's run down there and screw one of those hot cows." The old bull replies, "no, let's walk down and screw them all."

In life, you have to be the wise old bull and practice patience and use tactics that will actually achieve results. In a democratic republic like ours, you have to have support of the people to achieve your goals. Alienating those people will only set your goals back or in fact, make them unachievable. The last government shutdown was a dismal failure for the Republicans. There was no reason to believe this one would be different. They only controlled one House of Congress. Victory was unachievable Not only was victory unachievable, it destroyed the position Boehner had in the debt ceiling negotiations and it lowered the already low reputations of the Republican party. It was a total victory for Barry that was completely and unnecessarily self-inflicted.

Fight you say? Fight now? Why? So you lose? This way you ensure there will be no victory in the near future. Why not have a tactical retreat or at least a better analogy strengthen your defenses and hold your ground? Gather your strength. Strength equals support from the people, seat in Congress and even the presidency. Then counter attack with the strength to win. The old bull is wise.

And, please don't use phony analogies to support a foolish position and then punctuate it by telling you mine makes you sick. Senseless foolishness equally makes me sick. You and the other tactical and strategic geniuses that supported the idiots in Congress that shut the government down achieved nothing but a great big setback and the elevation of a weak president. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby vincentpa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:59 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
vincentpa wrote:The dumbasses like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and a handful of idiots in the House thought they would make a show by shutting the government down over defunding Barrycare.
That is not true. Defunding Obamacare was off the table BEFORE the shutdown. Delaying the individual mandate just like Obama delayed the employer mandate was the only thing still on the table.

This is the problem. Even those on the right don't know what they are talking about when they attack the only people that they can work with to achieve the ends they claim they wish. Obama and the media played you like a fiddle play the tune of their talking points for them.

McCain et. al. had declared surrender before it started. With tactics like that, it was doomed to failure.

But yes, the establishment looks to hold the line and not move the ball forward. The Dems get power. They expand government. The Republicans get some and they argue about how to pay for the bigger government. The ratchet just keeps tightening and they can't even push for any changes in Obamacare. Not the medical device tax, not the individual mandate even with Obama giving a freebie to business. How can you not win that argument?

You always ask for more than you will get. That is the only tactic that helps you get as much as you can. But the establishment doesn't seem to really want anything. They got to go.


A week before the shutdown, I went to Spain and that was their position. The media didn't play me. You're the sucker to think that in a week, those clowns went from demanding defunding to delaying the mandate. Too late. Their position was locked. If it changed, they didn't communicate it properly. Their fault. They allowed themselves to be played. There is absolutely no defense of this foolishness.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:32 pm

beretta24 wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:There are some seriously blind people on this forum.

Tactics gentlemnen.

End game means more than short term in tactics. Always has, always will. The pieces are maneuvering and being positioned.

The real problem is that those trying to fix things are still politicians which means we will get more of the same no matter who wins.

You keep talking about tactics as if there is some master plan, and things are going according to plan. Please explain and spare us the generalities.

I have explained why the game they played on the shutdown was a losing game, and why I thought it was SHORT sighted (largely in another thread). Please shed some light on your perspective.


You and most of the other folks on here are chasing the bouncing ball like a puppy. The ball is a simplistic diversion to keep you from seeing the end game. Classic diversion tactics in a microcosm. What is the end goal? Control of our government is the end goal. Can that be achieved quickly? Not a chance in the world. They are trying to sway the power base of an entrenched opponent to their side of the fence without firing a shot.

How did a bunch of socialist and communists end up taking over a free nations government? Short term? They didn't. Long term they worked constantly to create more and more demand for freebies by deadbeats. They played to the feelings of Americans instead of their intelligence. They capitalized on feel food legislation while defrauding, lying, and making corruption the norm so people would accept it as the lot in life. They made social workers more important than people who actually do valuable things for a living. They made it so liberals are the main teachers or our children. They play the race care to weaken their opponents to achieve their goals constantly. They have managed to make legal mind altering drugs the norm for our children. They have reduced much of our society to leeches with nothing to offer but a hand held out for more. So far their tactics are working great. The problem is that when the money runs out they have nothing left to offer but disaster. That in a nut shell is how we got where we are. They have to run us broke to take full control which is the end goal for all liberals. The problem comes when place like Detroit hit rock bottom and there are no leaders to save them, only currpt thieves leading the slugs.

The Tea Party is a little upstart group of pissed off citizens. To obtain enough power to effect the changes they want, they first have to obtain enough attention to get some people in power. The shut down was never about the Republican agenda, or stopping Obamacare. They know they don't have enough power to do that right now. What they have to do is show their existing voter base they will stand up and work to make change or they will lose them.

Ever hear the old Maxim "All publicity is good publicity"? The Tea party is working that maxim very effectively. They are showing that they will stand up and fight, which is vital to their survival. They are showing just how corrupt and stupid the established Republican leadership is at this time. Undercutting the enemy held close to sieze their power base. Losing as an underdog in an unwinnable fight always draws sympathy from different parts of our society. Their true supporters know they were going to loose. The fight was not about winning this battle right now. It is a preliminary attack to gain support and feel out the ground prior to future battles. It was about showing how the president is weak, and the Republicans they need to get rid of are corrupt and pandering to their main opposition.

The Tea Party cannot win major elections without stealing the majority of the Republican voting base. Right now they are practicing divide and conquer tactics with the foregone conclusion that they will eventually lose and regain seat numbers in the House. This will eventually be played out in the Senate as well. This is not about winning individual battles, it is about surving as politicians and winning enough small battles to win the war. That is always a long process in a political environment.

I could write a dissertation on the tactics being used at this time by the Tea Party.

The simple fact that we have people here pissed off and ranting proves their tactics are not only sound, they are working perfectly. The Tea Party has become a force to be reckoned with in how many years? They will continue to accrue power and may eventually accrue enough to effect real change in the system. Good or bad that is almost a foregone conclusion based in their present methods, means, and results of politicians in office.

Guerilla tactics are always used by the weaker opponent. A stand up fight just gets you dead. The Tea party is the weaker opponent for now. How many seats do they hold? How many references can you find where both parties are worried about them? Start with ones where politicians make fun of them. That is a direct sign of fear of their growing power. If you are attacking an enemy to make him look weak you do so for a reason. That is to convice either his or your own supporters that you are stronger and can win. End goal? Winning without having to fight at all. Mockery is classic attack dogs tactics that have been well used by the Democrats in recent history.

The Tea Party may overturn the establishment in the next decade. That could be very good or very bad.

I have not even begun to touch on the deeper and far more important tactics that are being implimented. You do not become a federal politician and not understand tactics, manipulation of thoughts, others feelings, and the handling of power and people.

There is a clear underlying planning going on in all three parties. The Tea Party is actually doing quite well with their program at this time.

Keep ranting on gentlemen. Good bad or indifferent, you are benefitting the people you rant against the most.

Stop chasing the bouncing ball and start looking deeper!

For those who actually want to start understanding the tactics being used I would reccommend a copy of Sun Tzu's. The Art of War. If you read it and want to learn more I will be happy to reccommend a long list of books on tactics in business, politics, and war.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:32 pm

vincentpa wrote:You're the sucker to think that in a week, those clowns went from demanding defunding to delaying the mandate.
They passed three bills I believe and they did precisely that in those bills. Defunding was off of the table before the government shutdown. That is a fact documented by the bills passed in the House of Representatives :thumbsup:

vincentpa wrote:If it changed, they didn't communicate it properly.
So you being uninformed is their fault. :huh:
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:38 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:There are some seriously blind people on this forum.

Tactics gentlemnen.

End game means more than short term in tactics. Always has, always will. The pieces are maneuvering and being positioned.

The real problem is that those trying to fix things are still politicians which means we will get more of the same no matter who wins.

You keep talking about tactics as if there is some master plan, and things are going according to plan. Please explain and spare us the generalities.

I have explained why the game they played on the shutdown was a losing game, and why I thought it was SHORT sighted (largely in another thread). Please shed some light on your perspective.


You and most of the other folks on here are chasing the bouncing ball like a puppy. The ball is a simplistic diversion to keep you from seeing the end game. Classic diversion tactics in a microcosm. What is the end goal? Control of our government is the end goal. Can that be achieved quickly? Not a chance in the world. They are trying to sway the power base of an entrenched opponent to their side of the fence without firing a shot.

How did a bunch of socialist and communists end up taking over a free nations government? Short term? They didn't. Long term they worked constantly to create more and more demand for freebies by deadbeats. They played to the feelings of Americans instead of their intelligence. They capitalized on feel food legislation while defrauding, lying, and making corruption the norm so people would accept it as the lot in life. They made social workers more important than people who actually do valuable things for a living. They made it so liberals are the main teachers or our children. They play the race care to weaken their opponents to achieve their goals constantly. They have managed to make legal mind altering drugs the norm for our children. They have reduced much of our society to leeches with nothing to offer but a hand held out for more. So far their tactics are working great. The problem is that when the money runs out they have nothing left to offer but disaster. That in a nut shell is how we got where we are. They have to run us broke to take full control which is the end goal for all liberals. The problem comes when place like Detroit hit rock bottom and there are no leaders to save them, only currpt thieves leading the slugs.

The Tea Party is a little upstart group of pissed off citizens. To obtain enough power to effect the changes they want, they first have to obtain enough attention to get some people in power. The shut down was never about the Republican agenda, or stopping Obamacare. They know they don't have enough power to do that right now. What they have to do is show their existing voter base they will stand up and work to make change or they will lose them.

Ever hear the old Maxim "All publicity is good publicity"? The Tea party is working that maxim very effectively. They are showing that they will stand up and fight, which is vital to their survival. They are showing just how corrupt and stupid the established Republican leadership is at this time. Undercutting the enemy held close to sieze their power base. Losing as an underdog in an unwinnable fight always draws sympathy from different parts of our society. Their true supporters know they were going to loose. The fight was not about winning this battle right now. It is a preliminary attack to gain support and feel out the ground prior to future battles. It was about showing how the president is weak, and the Republicans they need to get rid of are corrupt and pandering to their main opposition.

The Tea Party cannot win major elections without stealing the majority of the Republican voting base. Right now they are practicing divide and conquer tactics with the foregone conclusion that they will eventually lose and regain seat numbers in the House. This will eventually be played out in the Senate as well. This is not about winning individual battles, it is about surving as politicians and winning enough small battles to win the war. That is always a long process in a political environment.

I could write a dissertation on the tactics being used at this time by the Tea Party.

The simple fact that we have people here pissed off and ranting proves their tactics are not only sound, they are working perfectly. The Tea Party has become a force to be reckoned with in how many years? They will continue to accrue power and may eventually accrue enough to effect real change in the system. Good or bad that is almost a foregone conclusion based in their present methods, means, and results of politicians in office.

Guerilla tactics are always used by the weaker opponent. A stand up fight just gets you dead. The Tea party is the weaker opponent for now. How many seats do they hold? How many references can you find where both parties are worried about them? Start with ones where politicians make fun of them. That is a direct sign of fear of their growing power. If you are attacking an enemy to make him look weak you do so for a reason. That is to convice either his or your own supporters that you are stronger and can win. End goal? Winning without having to fight at all. Mockery is classic attack dogs tactics that have been well used by the Democrats in recent history.

The Tea Party may overturn the establishment in the next decade. That could be very good or very bad.

I have not even begun to touch on the deeper and far more important tactics that are being implimented. You do not become a federal politician and not understand tactics, manipulation of thoughts, others feelings, and the handling of power and people.

There is a clear underlying planning going on in all three parties. The Tea Party is actually doing quite well with their program at this time.

Keep ranting on gentlemen. Good bad or indifferent, you are benefitting the people you rant against the most.

Stop chasing the bouncing ball and start looking deeper!

For those who actually want to start understanding the tactics being used I would reccommend a copy of Sun Tzu's. The Art of War. If you read it and want to learn more I will be happy to reccommend a long list of books on tactics in business, politics, and war.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that is a funny azz mis type!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:50 pm

Funny and true at the same time. :lol3:

I often end up typing on my phone. It is amazing those posts are coherent much less have only one major typo. Big fingers and tiny electric buttons do not go well together.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby vincentpa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:07 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
vincentpa wrote:You're the sucker to think that in a week, those clowns went from demanding defunding to delaying the mandate.
They passed three bills I believe and they did precisely that in those bills. Defunding was off of the table before the government shutdown. That is a fact documented by the bills passed in the House of Representatives :thumbsup:

vincentpa wrote:If it changed, they didn't communicate it properly.
So you being uninformed is their fault. :huh:


It most certainly is their fault. I've been back for two weeks and I haven't heard anyone defending that position. Disseminating a message is number one in politics. If nobody hears you, you have no message.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby bill in san jose » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:15 pm

100% New York, liberal thinking.

I agree the GOP was out negotiated.

Obummer set it up as a win-win. If they held out to the end, he still would win with the main stream media portraying him as the second coming of Jesus.


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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:28 pm

vincentpa wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
vincentpa wrote:You're the sucker to think that in a week, those clowns went from demanding defunding to delaying the mandate.
They passed three bills I believe and they did precisely that in those bills. Defunding was off of the table before the government shutdown. That is a fact documented by the bills passed in the House of Representatives :thumbsup:

vincentpa wrote:If it changed, they didn't communicate it properly.
So you being uninformed is their fault. :huh:


It most certainly is their fault. I've been back for two weeks and I haven't heard anyone defending that position. Disseminating a message is number one in politics. If nobody hears you, you have no message.

I heard the message. It was passed in Congress. How did you not hear it? :huh:

Clearly you are getting your news from liars or ignorant fools. Time to reevaluate your news sources because they let you down badly and caused you to repeat falsehoods put forth by the Democrats.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby beretta24 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:56 pm

Scaup,

I think I misunderstood the object of your earlier comments. I agree with much of what you said regarding the tactics of the tea party. They are in fact making big gains. For them, the question will be whether or not they can gain the support of a larger body before the volume of ignorant have-nots vote us into oblivion.

My comments have been largerly directed at the republican establishment as a whole. In my opinion,they (including the tea party crowd), would have made a much larger dent if they had done the following:

1. Challenged the executives branch's modfications to the implementation of the ACA through the SCOTUS
2. Refused ANY subsidies or modifications to the ACA through new legislation
3. Passed legislation through the house for everything but Obamacare before the shutdown
4. Walked away from D.C. and repeated a concrete message for whoever would listen:
The President is trying to unilaterally modify Congressional Law for the benefit of a few. Those not included in his subsidies will be asked to foot the bill. We will not support such modifications, and have chosen to defund it. We have passed legislation to fund every other sector of government. The President can either impliment the law that HE signed as passed by Congress, and own it, or convince the Senate to pass the legislation funding everything else. In other words, the President can choose between shutting down the Government, owning the law he signed, or funding everything else. He is now responsible for either of the three outcomes.

That would've put the Pres in a lose/lose situtation. Either implement the ACA and have it's ugly head crush the Dems in 2014, fund everything except that or take responsibility for the shutdown. As it stands we will get a slowly implemented law and continue to it in a pot on the stove as the water temp rises.

Perhaps your view was that my proposed approach isn't feasible with the existing congress? Or perhaps you think the above approach would have failed miserably? I think it would've served the purpose of supporting a long term strategy.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby assateague » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:08 pm

vincentpa wrote:
Your analogies are ridiculous as the Tea Party government shutdown. They don't even remotely apply. .
An old bull and a young bull are standing on top of the hill in the pasture. They see a herd of good looking cows at the base of the hill grazing. The young bull says to the old bull, "let's run down there and screw one of those hot cows." The old bull replies, "no, let's walk down and screw them all."

In life, you have to be the wise old bull and practice patience and use tactics that will actually achieve results. In a democratic republic like ours, you have to have support of the people to achieve your goals. Alienating those people will only set your goals back or in fact, make them unachievable. The last government shutdown was a dismal failure for the Republicans. There was no reason to believe this one would be different. They only controlled one House of Congress. Victory was unachievable Not only was victory unachievable, it destroyed the position Boehner had in the debt ceiling negotiations and it lowered the already low reputations of the Republican party. It was a total victory for Barry that was completely and unnecessarily self-inflicted.

Fight you say? Fight now? Why? So you lose? This way you ensure there will be no victory in the near future. Why not have a tactical retreat or at least a better analogy strengthen your defenses and hold your ground? Gather your strength. Strength equals support from the people, seat in Congress and even the presidency. Then counter attack with the strength to win. The old bull is wise.

And, please don't use phony analogies to support a foolish position and then punctuate it by telling you mine makes you sick. Senseless foolishness equally makes me sick. You and the other tactical and strategic geniuses that supported the idiots in Congress that shut the government down achieved nothing but a great big setback and the elevation of a weak president. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.



So you are the arbiter of what is worth fighting for and when? Interesting.

The fact that you believe ANY of the establishment Rs, much less John Boehner, had ANY "leverage" in the upcoming debt negotiations? You're high. You tactically retreat when you can- but you damn sure don't do it when there's nothing but a huge cliff at your back. You fight.

And yes, I most certainly do believe that there was a cliff at their back. Vincent, we are $17 TRILLION dollars in debt, with $90 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities, and facing a ridiculous takeover of our healthcare.

In your opinion, how far in debt do we have to be to say "enough'? How pathetically socialist do we have to get before someone says "enough'? Exactly WHAT is wrong with shutting it down, and saying "fine, you can do it, but I'm going to do everything I damn well can to stop it, because I feel that it is WRONG"?

I wish they would have let it stay closed for 7 years. Because it's going to shut down, anyway, eventually. And you know why? Because conservatives have "tactically retreated" right into losing the damn war.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:30 pm

beretta24 wrote:Perhaps your view was that my proposed approach isn't feasible with the existing congress? Or perhaps you think the above approach would have failed miserably? I think it would've served the purpose of supporting a long term strategy.

Here is the problem that I see with your strategy. I believe the Republican establishment and the elitist Republicans think the Tea Party are a handful of dumbasses that need to be expunged from the Party and let the more intelligent perpetual minority Republicans run the show. They largely look at the Tea Party Republicans the same way the Democrats look at them. They are more than happy to work with the Democrats to destroy Ted Cruz and Mike Lee and any other idiot that dare to take one of their offices. They would rather lose these seats to Democrats to keep their hold on the Republican party. It is their party which is why John McCain et. al. attack them with more vitrol than they have ever even thought of attacking Obama with. They are far less worried about advancing a political agenda then they are of regaining control of their party and this allows the Democrats to steamroll them like they did. And they will work just as vigorously as the Democrats to blame, discredit, and destroy these interlopers without sufficient sophistication to hold office in the august body which they now hold.

Don't get me wrong. Many in the Tea Party have done stupid things, but it's not like Obama, McCain, and all the others have not. You just have these people that are supposed in greater agreement than they are with Obama attacking the Tea Party and working with Obama. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and when it comes to the Tea Party, that is the common enemy that must be destroyed before the old boys network can be restored.

They have no desire to help the career of Ted Cruz and the other. They want to end them ASAP!
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby beretta24 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:16 pm

That may be the case but I think with my strategy all of the Republicans would have won. Instead they squandered an opportunity.
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Re: 10 things only idiots will ignore

Postby vincentpa » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:27 am

assateague wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
Your analogies are ridiculous as the Tea Party government shutdown. They don't even remotely apply. .
An old bull and a young bull are standing on top of the hill in the pasture. They see a herd of good looking cows at the base of the hill grazing. The young bull says to the old bull, "let's run down there and screw one of those hot cows." The old bull replies, "no, let's walk down and screw them all."

In life, you have to be the wise old bull and practice patience and use tactics that will actually achieve results. In a democratic republic like ours, you have to have support of the people to achieve your goals. Alienating those people will only set your goals back or in fact, make them unachievable. The last government shutdown was a dismal failure for the Republicans. There was no reason to believe this one would be different. They only controlled one House of Congress. Victory was unachievable Not only was victory unachievable, it destroyed the position Boehner had in the debt ceiling negotiations and it lowered the already low reputations of the Republican party. It was a total victory for Barry that was completely and unnecessarily self-inflicted.

Fight you say? Fight now? Why? So you lose? This way you ensure there will be no victory in the near future. Why not have a tactical retreat or at least a better analogy strengthen your defenses and hold your ground? Gather your strength. Strength equals support from the people, seat in Congress and even the presidency. Then counter attack with the strength to win. The old bull is wise.

And, please don't use phony analogies to support a foolish position and then punctuate it by telling you mine makes you sick. Senseless foolishness equally makes me sick. You and the other tactical and strategic geniuses that supported the idiots in Congress that shut the government down achieved nothing but a great big setback and the elevation of a weak president. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.



So you are the arbiter of what is worth fighting for and when? Interesting.

The fact that you believe ANY of the establishment Rs, much less John Boehner, had ANY "leverage" in the upcoming debt negotiations? You're high. You tactically retreat when you can- but you damn sure don't do it when there's nothing but a huge cliff at your back. You fight.

And yes, I most certainly do believe that there was a cliff at their back. Vincent, we are $17 TRILLION dollars in debt, with $90 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities, and facing a ridiculous takeover of our healthcare.

In your opinion, how far in debt do we have to be to say "enough'? How pathetically socialist do we have to get before someone says "enough'? Exactly WHAT is wrong with shutting it down, and saying "fine, you can do it, but I'm going to do everything I damn well can to stop it, because I feel that it is WRONG"?

I wish they would have let it stay closed for 7 years. Because it's going to shut down, anyway, eventually. And you know why? Because conservatives have "tactically retreated" right into losing the damn war.



I wasn't necessarily for a tactical retreat. I was for holding the line and exacting concessions like the sequester. If all you can do is hold the line, then that is all you can do. If you try to do more and those actions will harm your future efforts they are futile and worse; they are damaging enough to prevent the ulitmate goal from able to being achieved. The end game is all that matters. If this is all we can do at the moment, we have to be a bit more patient. Barry was very correct when he said if we want to change things we have to win elections. We can't win elections if we look like incompetent fools easily mocked and ridiculed. Who wants to vote for someone like that?
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