Who flies this flag?

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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby vincentpa » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:22 pm

slowshooter wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
ohioboy wrote:i'll bite. Vincent, you said "teaching historical inaccuracies was acceptable as a means to pride in self esteem in minority students." what else was taught that was inaccurate? again, if it is that big of a deal i am sure you could find something to prove you are correct.

Pictures of black Santa Claus? I can't imagine "Claus" being a very popular name within the black community. :lol3:


I can't imagine most white churches have a little brown Semitic Jesus hanging from a cross up on the Altar.

Don't you know that he was white with green eyes and long flowing brown hair? :lol3: :lol3:



I've seen crucifixes in Mexican churches. It's a bit strange to see Jesús portrayed as a Mexican. His legs are also too short for his feet to reach the foot rest where they nailed his feet.


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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby vincentpa » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:23 pm

ohioboy wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
vincentpa wrote:[quote="blackduckdog2"]Just for the record, I agree with everything in this thread. Except the "It wasn't about slavery part", because that's delusional. And the degree to which the delusion is frantically promulgated is telling. Yes, we all know there were a great many contributing factors that drove the country into near suicide. But slavery, SLAVERY was obviously not one of them. Carry on


Even the post about teaching colored folk that Cleopatra was black because its too complicated to teach her that she actually was of Macedonian decent?

Well, I gotta admit I missed that part (it's a long thread) Macedonian doesn't seem particularly complicated, though


It's not. The point went over OHboy's head.


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well then fill me in. and please tell me where it is taught that way, and show me proof. not to much to ask.


It wad taught that way in city schools in Pittsburgh and other cities in the 90's among other historical inaccuracies. It was one of the liberal ideas that teaching historical inaccuracies was acceptable as a means to pride in self esteem in minority students. You do the research. I'm sure you can find articles of consternation and outright hostility when it was discovered this was the current practice in schools. I'm sure it was promulgated through Columbia university where so many of the foolish programs are born.


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i did look, and just looked again. could not find anything. you made the claim-please back it up.

and WAS taught i think is the key here.



That's funny. I just did a quick google search and had many links come up. I've been using my phone. Copying links is difficult. I'm sure you can manage to come up with a simple search string that provide theses links.


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well what words did you use. you can surely post that. and i have plenty of time-post the links later.[/quote]

I can honestly say that you are an absolute retard.


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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:33 pm

ohioboy wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
ohioboy wrote:i'll bite. Vincent, you said "teaching historical inaccuracies was acceptable as a means to pride in self esteem in minority students." what else was taught that was inaccurate? again, if it is that big of a deal i am sure you could find something to prove you are correct.

Pictures of black Santa Claus? I can't imagine "Claus" being a very popular name within the black community. :lol3:

where is that taught?

You clearly missed my attempt at humor. Next time I'll use more of these little guys ---> :lol3: .
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby cartervj » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:08 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
ohioboy wrote:i'll bite. Vincent, you said "teaching historical inaccuracies was acceptable as a means to pride in self esteem in minority students." what else was taught that was inaccurate? again, if it is that big of a deal i am sure you could find something to prove you are correct.

Pictures of black Santa Claus? I can't imagine "Claus" being a very popular name within the black community. :lol3:



that would be homey claus :lol3:

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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby cartervj » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:11 pm

possumfoot wrote:
slowshooter wrote:LOL!

A historical "fact" is wrong? That definitely proves the Civil war had nothing to do with Slaves. Ha haaa!!!!!

Confirmation bias much?

:lol3: :lol3:



the slaves only had 1 relation to the start of the war.. and it was not the slaves themselves.. it was the cotton they picked.. thats it.. most who fought never owned slaves.. and slow, the met on the street and convinced to fight.. lol.. you really have no grasp of reality.. present or past..

the north was using the government to force a monopoly upon the south..

the south revolted because the Gov in essance told them they could only sell their cotton inside the us.. the tariff was only on RAW cotton.. so, it was sold to a northern mill, which could simply offer pennies on the dollar value, mill it, then export it and take both the growers share and the millers share of the profit.. and blacks were not the only ones that worked the cotton..

that is my problem with schools.. its not that facts are left out, its that total inaccuracies are being taught.. if not outright intentional lies..



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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby TrapperRob » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:40 pm

I went into the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
-Henry David Thoreau
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby ohioboy » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:48 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
ohioboy wrote:i'll bite. Vincent, you said "teaching historical inaccuracies was acceptable as a means to pride in self esteem in minority students." what else was taught that was inaccurate? again, if it is that big of a deal i am sure you could find something to prove you are correct.

Pictures of black Santa Claus? I can't imagine "Claus" being a very popular name within the black community. :lol3:

where is that taught?

You clearly missed my attempt at humor. Next time I'll use more of these little guys ---> :lol3: .

you never know around here.
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:52 pm

Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:59 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:13 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:17 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that

I guess it's lost on you that the winner writes the history and thus rewrote it first.

Like I said...smh.
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:35 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that

I guess it's lost on you that the winner writes the history and thus rewrote it first.

Like I said...smh.

I fail to see how winner/loser dynamics apply to my take on the issue in any way shape or form. I'm saying it was an issue of mass denial concerning an imminent and massive social adjustment. Like an addict, which is a very apt comparison
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:39 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that

I guess it's lost on you that the winner writes the history and thus rewrote it first.

Like I said...smh.

I fail to see how winner/loser dynamics apply to my take on the issue in any way shape or form. I'm saying it was an issue of mass denial concerning an imminent and massive social adjustment. Like an addict, which is a very apt comparison

go reread possums posts on the economic dynamics in play.
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby possumfoot » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:50 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that

I guess it's lost on you that the winner writes the history and thus rewrote it first.

Like I said...smh.

I fail to see how winner/loser dynamics apply to my take on the issue in any way shape or form. I'm saying it was an issue of mass denial concerning an imminent and massive social adjustment. Like an addict, which is a very apt comparison



ho-lee-shit.. i don't give a good God damn if martians had been picking the cotton from hover craft.. the civil war would have happened right then and there.. the only diffence is the south would have won.. aided by great britan and possibly other european countrys.. slavery was the reason the south LOST the war, not the reason the war started..
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:00 pm

possumfoot wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that

I guess it's lost on you that the winner writes the history and thus rewrote it first.

Like I said...smh.

I fail to see how winner/loser dynamics apply to my take on the issue in any way shape or form. I'm saying it was an issue of mass denial concerning an imminent and massive social adjustment. Like an addict, which is a very apt comparison



ho-lee-shit.. i don't give a good God damn if martians had been picking the cotton from hover craft.. the civil war would have happened right then and there.. the only diffence is the south would have won.. aided by great britan and possibly other european countrys.. slavery was the reason the south LOST the war, not the reason the war started..

always wanted to use this one...been saving it...
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:25 pm

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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:14 pm

possumfoot wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that

I guess it's lost on you that the winner writes the history and thus rewrote it first.

Like I said...smh.

I fail to see how winner/loser dynamics apply to my take on the issue in any way shape or form. I'm saying it was an issue of mass denial concerning an imminent and massive social adjustment. Like an addict, which is a very apt comparison



ho-lee-shit.. i don't give a good God damn if martians had been picking the cotton from hover craft.. the civil war would have happened right then and there.. the only diffence is the south would have won.. aided by great britan and possibly other european countrys.. slavery was the reason the south LOST the war, not the reason the war started..

Yeah, only they WEREN'T martians on a hover craft now, were they, possumfoot? They were actual human beings from this planet who just happened to be a different color. And the guilt….that's right possumfoot, the absolutely unbearable GUILT that hit once it became clear in the gut, in the soul, that this was one of nature's most heinous, abominable crimes became the single biggest determiner of the subsequent historical record as could possibly be imagined. You righties think guilt is something that only liberals are motivated by, but the big difference is that we KNOW when we're being pushed by guilt to do the right thing, whilst you guys are nothing but unwitting pawns in an historical procession so far beyond your comprehension that you may as well be a pack of blue ticks, baying at some mysterious hovercraft in the moonlight that never was
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby The Duck Hammer » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:17 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
possumfoot wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that

I guess it's lost on you that the winner writes the history and thus rewrote it first.

Like I said...smh.

I fail to see how winner/loser dynamics apply to my take on the issue in any way shape or form. I'm saying it was an issue of mass denial concerning an imminent and massive social adjustment. Like an addict, which is a very apt comparison



ho-lee-shit.. i don't give a good God damn if martians had been picking the cotton from hover craft.. the civil war would have happened right then and there.. the only diffence is the south would have won.. aided by great britan and possibly other european countrys.. slavery was the reason the south LOST the war, not the reason the war started..

Yeah, only they WEREN'T martians on a hover craft now, were they, possumfoot? They were actual human beings from this planet who just happened to be a different color. And the guilt….that's right possumfoot, the absolutely unbearable GUILT that hit once it became clear in the gut, in the soul, that this was one of nature's most heinous, abominable crimes became the single biggest determiner of the subsequent historical record as could possibly be imagined. You righties think guilt is something that only liberals are motivated by, but the big difference is that we KNOW when we're being pushed by guilt to do the right thing, whilst you guys are nothing but unwitting pawns in an historical procession so far beyond your comprehension that you may as well be a pack of blue ticks, baying at some mysterious hovercraft in the moonlight that never was

You completely missed the point on that one....
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Indaswamp wrote:easy...just manipulate the ruler to make the inch shorter so that 28" reads 30"..... :thumbsup:

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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby possumfoot » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:24 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
possumfoot wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that

I guess it's lost on you that the winner writes the history and thus rewrote it first.

Like I said...smh.

I fail to see how winner/loser dynamics apply to my take on the issue in any way shape or form. I'm saying it was an issue of mass denial concerning an imminent and massive social adjustment. Like an addict, which is a very apt comparison



ho-lee-shit.. i don't give a good God damn if martians had been picking the cotton from hover craft.. the civil war would have happened right then and there.. the only diffence is the south would have won.. aided by great britan and possibly other european countrys.. slavery was the reason the south LOST the war, not the reason the war started..

Yeah, only they WEREN'T martians on a hover craft now, were they, possumfoot? They were actual human beings from this planet who just happened to be a different color. And the guilt….that's right possumfoot, the absolutely unbearable GUILT that hit once it became clear in the gut, in the soul, that this was one of nature's most heinous, abominable crimes became the single biggest determiner of the subsequent historical record as could possibly be imagined. You righties think guilt is something that only liberals are motivated by, but the big difference is that we KNOW when we're being pushed by guilt to do the right thing, whilst you guys are nothing but unwitting pawns in an historical procession so far beyond your comprehension that you may as well be a pack of blue ticks, baying at some mysterious hovercraft in the moonlight that never was



guilt.. lol.. its funny.. my family owned slaves.. but not here... and not blacks.. fathers family was in charge of the gold mines in australia..


am i sorry.. no.. just like i'm not sorry for some starving mexican child in mexico city.. or any one else.. sucks for them, and my heart goes out to em, but i'm not one bit sorry..

let me make it as simple as possible and lets see if you can keep up.. now this is a hypothetical, so read carefully..

if there had not been black slaves in the south, would the civil war have started?? this is assuming that no other factor change.. the labor is simply replaced solely with share crop farmers and farm hand labor..
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby possumfoot » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:26 pm

The Duck Hammer wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
possumfoot wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Slavery was the backdrop against which EVERY other decision during this time frame was made. I am simply dumbfounded that the revisionists on this page seem to think that it can be removed from the equation. Slavery as an institution was on the way out, everybody knew it, in some form or another, whether they could actually accept that fact or not. It HAD to go, and it wasn't going to be pretty. There was NO other issue that had the moral imperative to drive any other decision like slavery did. It's ridiculous to think that all these other issues were not possessed by the one great existential issue of the day. Which was NOT economic cartels, as important as those might have been to a few. I think that most of the arguments being put forth here as reasons for the war were actually sidewinding cover measures for a people who simply could not face up to their demons.
And the fact that back folks were hated in the north (though never so monstrously as in the south, for the simple fact that slavery was so ingrained as an institution there) doesn't mean that northerners didn't realize just as surely as the rest of the civilized world was realizing, that this thing had to be over and that the time for that happening was soon (if not past time) I don't believe folks in the south were blind to that moral imperative either, but their denial would have been far more frantic because, once again, of the greater institutionalizing of slavery.
When folks know they gotta change, but can't bring themselves to do it, all kinds of weird schit starts going down…….twisted logic, counter-productive measures, suicidal measures even. CIVIL WARS happen

smh.

yeah…….like that

I guess it's lost on you that the winner writes the history and thus rewrote it first.

Like I said...smh.

I fail to see how winner/loser dynamics apply to my take on the issue in any way shape or form. I'm saying it was an issue of mass denial concerning an imminent and massive social adjustment. Like an addict, which is a very apt comparison



ho-lee-shit.. i don't give a good God damn if martians had been picking the cotton from hover craft.. the civil war would have happened right then and there.. the only diffence is the south would have won.. aided by great britan and possibly other european countrys.. slavery was the reason the south LOST the war, not the reason the war started..

Yeah, only they WEREN'T martians on a hover craft now, were they, possumfoot? They were actual human beings from this planet who just happened to be a different color. And the guilt….that's right possumfoot, the absolutely unbearable GUILT that hit once it became clear in the gut, in the soul, that this was one of nature's most heinous, abominable crimes became the single biggest determiner of the subsequent historical record as could possibly be imagined. You righties think guilt is something that only liberals are motivated by, but the big difference is that we KNOW when we're being pushed by guilt to do the right thing, whilst you guys are nothing but unwitting pawns in an historical procession so far beyond your comprehension that you may as well be a pack of blue ticks, baying at some mysterious hovercraft in the moonlight that never was

You completely missed the point on that one....



thats the way now.. no pin point strike.. just throw as much stuff at the wall and hope something sticks, but if not, it atleast distracts and detracts..
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pgquackstacker wrote:I actually started bringing a gun with me on dates, so I bring the girl's father out to my car and tell him if he tries to cock-block me I'll kill him.
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:56 pm

The fact that you can't see the pin point doesn't change the fact that it's right in your eyeball
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby possumfoot » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:34 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:The fact that you can't see the pin point doesn't change the fact that it's right in your eyeball



ok, by that premise, you are saying the us gov sent troops against its own people over a practice that was legal in the eyes of said Gov, that was on its last leg anyway?? and that half the country wanted to, and then decided to leave teh union, even though there was no threat to that practice??

if your "piont" is that slavery was the cause of the civil war, then its non-existant...

the only slavery issue at the start of the war was that in order to join the union, slavery would not be allowed.. the president wanted to halt the spread of slavery and expected it to die out...

oh, and btw you forgot to answer my previous question.. its funny, liberals pride them selves on being free thinkers, but the truth of the matter is, all you are are drones repeating what a talking head told you.. you even stated your lack of knowledge was great on the subject but your continuing the argument against those that are quite knowledgeable of it..

its really sad.. but thats why this country is doomed..
WTN10 wrote:He was funny like a Pomeranian getting kicked over a fence.


pgquackstacker wrote:I actually started bringing a gun with me on dates, so I bring the girl's father out to my car and tell him if he tries to cock-block me I'll kill him.
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:49 pm

possumfoot wrote: its funny, liberals pride them selves on being free thinkers, but the truth of the matter is, all you are are drones repeating what a talking head told you..
its really sad.. but thats why this country is doomed..

Please point out to me where you have EVER seen any iteration whatsoever of my take on this issue repeated elsewhere. You seem like a reasonable man, you ought not trade in outright falsehood. I am no historian (but then, neither are you, although you are surely more conversant with the matter than I am there is nothing to suggest even the remotest hint of original thinking in your posts) but I know what makes the beast a beast. Look, I know this is over your head (well, actually I just think that…prove me wrong), but the fact that you can't comprehend such forces does nothing to obviate them. Spin all you want, the vast majority of free thinkers will recognize you for the Confederate apologist you truly are, and more power to them
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby MODuckkiller » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:53 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:The fact that you can't see the pin point doesn't change the fact that it's right in your eyeball

It amazes me how you fail to comprehend and/or acknowledge facts......

.......Haaaaaa :sarcmark: :lol3:

You're a decomocrat, of course you don't believe in facts if it disagrees with your personal opinions or what is told to you. This is commonplace of most democrats I've come across, and the gentlemen on this site are no different; if something disagrees with a belief or opinion they just close their ears, and yell "Nananana, I'm not listening! I'm not listening!".....that or they just argue it with nothing more than repetition of loose facts and opinionated statements. And this is my quarrel with you, BDD2, as with many other gentlemen on this site, and in reality. You have complete disregard for the facts, however compelling they may be. Of course, slavery had a HUGE role in the shaping of pre-civil war American politics, and played a pivotal part in the events leading to secession, but this seems to be where you cease belief in anything else. History is history. The facts aren't regurgitated numbers or stats factcheckers blog about during debates, their FACTS. THEY HAPPENED. Why don't you believe?! Simply because it goes against what you were taught to believe? Why?

Documentation from South Carolina to the US Government regarding its secession from the Union talks mostly of the US Constitution and how the government was infringing on their rights as a state; but later on the Fugitive Slave Act is clearly mentioned. So if you were to just skim the documentation, BDD2, you would be satisfied to see nothing mentioned of economics; and this is where you would end your studies. However, this is poor scholarly practice. One must peel the information back layer by layer, retaining as much as you can as you go until reaching the core, the heart of it all, before you can truly form an opinion based on fact (again, I must laugh aloud because I realize this probably seldom happens :lol3: ). Instead, you go about things more like a scratch'n'sniff, you're a scratch'n'sniff kinda guy. Your own, personal research goes about as far as you scratching the surface of the information, retaining all of about 5 seconds worth of information, then "DONE! I know everything there is to know on this topic!"

But since it is late, and I realize that there is a good likelihood that I am just arguing with a wall built sideways (that one may go above your head), I will stop here and just give you a few key points to base your studies on:

+You say that the south fought the war for the sole purpose of slavery, yet over 90% of fightin' men (not ranking officers) were not slave owners. And only 30% of confederate soldiers listed pro-slavery convictions as to why they were fighting in the war. What were they fighting for? Slaves they don't own? Beneficial cheap/free labor that leads to wealth they won't achieve, and jobs they won't have?



+The South felt the need to own slaves was stronger than ever after a few key tariffs and taxes were levied preventing business overseas, primarily in the cotton market. Do you feel this is just a coincidence? Why or why not?



+Lastly, this one may be difficult to grasp, if slavery was so beneficial to economics in the South, why didn't the North exploit slavery in factories, mills, etc on a large-scale like the South? (i.e. Why was there a need for slavery in the South that wasn't exhibited in the North? Was the economy of the North just THAT strong? Or was the economy of the South just THAT crippled?)
*Although it may be an appealing answer for the narrow-minded to latch onto, try to stray away from moral beliefs of the South vs. that of the North in the response to this question. The South wasn't full of god-hating, immoral people; nor was the North full of perfect, moral citizens. Also noteworthy, keep in mind only ~10% of white southerners were slave owners (some sources would argue less).*


Sources:
General Lee's Army, Joseph T. Glatthaar
For Cause and Comrades, James M. McPherson

For those nay-sayers, which I know there are to be many, I read these books because they were recommended to me by my grandfather, prior to the men of the family taking a cross-country two week trip visiting civil war battlefields, museums, etc. Don't believe me? That's an opinion you're allowed to have. (But only if the left-wing higher ups say it's okay :thumbsup: )
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Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby 95 taco » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:40 am

slowshooter wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/25/opinion/obeidallah-confederate-flag/index.html

People that are dumb. Or people that don't want to be citizens of the USA.

Dumb is incurable. But if you hate the USA, flights leaving the country happen every few minutes.

I fly the flag
Why?
1. I'm proud to have southern roots
2. because i can
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