The Fed

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The Fed

Postby cartervj » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:24 pm

With all the talk of the Fed needing to be dismantled, how can it happen or what would it take? After all they own most of our debt now. It appears the Fed is trying to duplicate what they did back in the 40's by buying all the debt. They were lucky with the timing. Without the World Banks helping us would we crash? Maybe this explains why TARP was mostly spent overseas.

Seriously, I have no idea of how or if it is even possible to dissolve the Fed short of a complete collapse, that's usually when Big Government usually really gains total control.
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Re: The Fed

Postby blackduckdog2 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:50 pm

As much as Inda's tried to school me over the years, I still don't get the fed. It's not for lack of trying but holy hell the thing is just a beast
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Re: The Fed

Postby cartervj » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:13 pm

I know, that's why I asked. I really have no clue as to how it could be dissolved.
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Re: The Fed

Postby TomKat » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:27 pm

Only the US Congress can dismantle the Reserve Bank.



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Re: The Fed

Postby beretta24 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:26 pm

TomKat's right that it requires an act of congress; however, without the Fed at this point we would be short a conventional aid of the deleveraging cycle --> printing money. Taking away the Fed and introducing austerity measures would destroy the economy if nothing was done to the fill the hole.

The doomsday scenario in my mind is continuing down our current path until the money printing isn't enough. The it opens the door for a world bank to bail out the US. At that point there will be a bank that controls the US (and much of the world's) money supply, and it will be headed by people we can't vote out via congress. F'ing scary.

I don't think there is an option that won't hurt. Wealth is going to be confiscated, and the average standard of living will go down in the US. It will also be exacerbated by the ACA and the existing monopolies in the healthcare system since that's such a large part of the economy.
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:40 am

beretta24 wrote:TomKat's right that it requires an act of congress; however, without the Fed at this point we would be short a conventional aid of the deleveraging cycle --> printing money. Taking away the Fed and introducing austerity measures would destroy the economy if nothing was done to the fill the hole.

The doomsday scenario in my mind is continuing down our current path until the money printing isn't enough. The it opens the door for a world bank to bail out the US. At that point there will be a bank that controls the US (and much of the world's) money supply, and it will be headed by people we can't vote out via congress. F'ing scary.

I don't think there is an option that won't hurt. Wealth is going to be confiscated, and the average standard of living will go down in the US. It will also be exacerbated by the ACA and the existing monopolies in the healthcare system since that's such a large part of the economy.

^^^^^this^^^^^
and Tomkat is correct.

The FED was created by congress but it would take a Jackson on steroids to end it today.

and BDD2-you need to watch this:
http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=325097
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Re: The Fed

Postby beretta24 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:37 am

Indaswamp wrote:
beretta24 wrote:TomKat's right that it requires an act of congress; however, without the Fed at this point we would be short a conventional aid of the deleveraging cycle --> printing money. Taking away the Fed and introducing austerity measures would destroy the economy if nothing was done to the fill the hole.

The doomsday scenario in my mind is continuing down our current path until the money printing isn't enough. The it opens the door for a world bank to bail out the US. At that point there will be a bank that controls the US (and much of the world's) money supply, and it will be headed by people we can't vote out via congress. F'ing scary.

I don't think there is an option that won't hurt. Wealth is going to be confiscated, and the average standard of living will go down in the US. It will also be exacerbated by the ACA and the existing monopolies in the healthcare system since that's such a large part of the economy.

^^^^^this^^^^^
and Tomkat is correct.

The FED was created by congress but it would take a Jackson on steroids to end it today.



I think you would need a Jackson and Vice Jackson...and both would need a security service beyond what we have seen to date. I honestly believe that any President or congressman that made significant strides towards dismantling the Fed would have a target on their heads. The underlined portion being the key. There's poeple that have spoken out against the Fed, but I believe they are largely tolerated because they haven't been in a position nor have they had the support to do anything about.
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:42 am

beretta24 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
beretta24 wrote:TomKat's right that it requires an act of congress; however, without the Fed at this point we would be short a conventional aid of the deleveraging cycle --> printing money. Taking away the Fed and introducing austerity measures would destroy the economy if nothing was done to the fill the hole.

The doomsday scenario in my mind is continuing down our current path until the money printing isn't enough. The it opens the door for a world bank to bail out the US. At that point there will be a bank that controls the US (and much of the world's) money supply, and it will be headed by people we can't vote out via congress. F'ing scary.

I don't think there is an option that won't hurt. Wealth is going to be confiscated, and the average standard of living will go down in the US. It will also be exacerbated by the ACA and the existing monopolies in the healthcare system since that's such a large part of the economy.

^^^^^this^^^^^
and Tomkat is correct.

The FED was created by congress but it would take a Jackson on steroids to end it today.



I think you would need a Jackson and Vice Jackson...and both would need a security service beyond what we have seen to date. I honestly believe that any President or congressman that made significant strides towards dismantling the Fed would have a target on their heads. The underlined portion being the key. There's poeple that have spoken out against the Fed, but I believe they are largely tolerated because they haven't been in a position nor have they had the support to do anything about.

Yes they would have a target on their heads. Look what happened to JFK. He was about to sign into law the reissuing of silver certificates by-passing the FED.
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Re: The Fed

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:52 am

So how do you propose to address that? How would a government strong enough to deal with people who will actually assassinate them if they do the right thing, not be too powerful to keep you up nights? I feel like this is the whole crux of our disagreements in here
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:56 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:So how do you propose to address that? How would a government strong enough to deal with people who will actually assassinate them if they do the right thing, not be too powerful to keep you up nights? I feel like this is the whole crux of our disagreements in here

"The Creature from Jekyll Island"
It's time you read it BDD2.
might also want to research Jackson's struggle with ending the 2nd bank of the United States. There was an attempt on his life as well, but the black powder pistol did not fire....
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:03 am

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." — Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States" — Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)

"This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President [Wilson} signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." — Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. , 1913

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." — Congressman Charles A.
Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board as ministers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

"The Federal Reserve bank buys government bonds without one penny..." — Congressman
Wright Patman, Congressional Record, Sept 30, 1941

"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". — Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)


there's plenty more, but they are all 100% true.
Federal Reserve quotes
This one is a paradox of truth, that once you wrap your head around it, you know how depressions are created.

"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar
we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." — Robert H. Hamphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:14 am

many do not know that it was president Wilson that signed the Federal Reserve act into law. He had many regrets upon doing so...

"A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world--no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." — President Woodrow Wilson


Think I'm lying about the cause of depressions?
"As soon as Mr. Roosevelt took office, the Federal Reserve began to buy government securities
at the rate of ten million dollars a week for 10 weeks, and created one hundred million dollars in new [checkbook] currency, which alleviated the critical famine of money and credit, and the factories
started hiring people again." — Eustace Mullins

This one is most telling if you truly understand what he is saying....
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." — SIR JOSIAH STAMP, (President of the Bank of England in the 1920's, the second richest man in Britain):
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:16 am

...I am convinced that the agreement [Bretton Woods] will enthrone a world dictatorship of private finance more complete and terrible than and Hitlerite dream. It offers no solution of world problems, but quite blatantly sets up controls which will reduce the smaller nations to vassal states and make every government the mouthpiece and tool of International Finance. It will undermine and destroy the democratic institutions of this country - in fact as effectively as ever the Fascist forces could have done - pervert and paganise our Christian ideals; and will undoubtedly present a new menace, endangering world peace. World collaboration of private financial interests can only mean mass unemployment, slavery, misery, degradation and financial destruction. Therefore, as freedom loving Australians we should reject this infamous proposal. -- Labor Minister of Australia, Eddie Ward, during the inception of the World Bank and Bretton Woods, he gave this warning.
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Re: The Fed

Postby beretta24 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:20 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:So how do you propose to address that? How would a government strong enough to deal with people who will actually assassinate them if they do the right thing, not be too powerful to keep you up nights? I feel like this is the whole crux of our disagreements in here

I believe it requires the education of the population. It would be nice if people recognized that the increase in the cost of goods is a direct result or activities that are only possible with a central bank, and thus be driven to eliminate it. But I suspect IF the people are ever educated enough it will be a result of a major depression, at which point all bets are off. We could learn our lesson and turn the corner (eliminate the Fed and adopt a currency backed by gold/silver etc), or our whole political system as we know it could be turned on it's head when some perceived "savior" proposes that our system of goverment needs to be reformed and the not the banking aparatus. Historically the later has been the path, but we live in a different world than the other nations that have followed the path from democracy-to socialism-to facism or a dictatorship.

At this point I don't see the general public educating themselves enough to make any of the aforementioned outcomes likely.
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:22 am

money and credit today is a system created by the extremely Rich for their own means. Period. Every system has rules, and rules can be manipulated once you know they exist. The large majority of people don't know the rules......
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:01 am

beretta24 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:So how do you propose to address that? How would a government strong enough to deal with people who will actually assassinate them if they do the right thing, not be too powerful to keep you up nights? I feel like this is the whole crux of our disagreements in here

I believe it requires the education of the population. It would be nice if people recognized that the increase in the cost of goods is a direct result or activities that are only possible with a central bank, and thus be driven to eliminate it. But I suspect IF the people are ever educated enough it will be a result of a major depression, at which point all bets are off. We could learn our lesson and turn the corner (eliminate the Fed and adopt a currency backed by gold/silver etc), or our whole political system as we know it could be turned on it's head when some perceived "savior" proposes that our system of goverment needs to be reformed and the not the banking aparatus. Historically the later has been the path, but we live in a different world than the other nations that have followed the path from democracy-to socialism-to facism or a dictatorship.

At this point I don't see the general public educating themselves enough to make any of the aforementioned outcomes likely.

naked credit is the problem. Investment Banks, hedge funds, and brokerage clearing houses allow speculative positions to be put up with no real capital involved daisy chained together through derivatives. when it blows up, no one knows where it stops. those transactions should be backstopped and cleared nightly with real capital behind them. This is a huge problem, and one few people understand.
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:09 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:So how do you propose to address that? How would a government strong enough to deal with people who will actually assassinate them if they do the right thing, not be too powerful to keep you up nights? I feel like this is the whole crux of our disagreements in here

I'll also leave you to research how the 1st bank of the US was created without any money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bank_of_the_United_States
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Re: The Fed

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:00 pm

If a Democratic president tried to go all Andrew Jackson on the banks (or even just the Fed) are you telling me that the right would not attack him as some sort of anti-capitalist? There is very little question in my mind that they would
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:05 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:If a Democratic president tried to go all Andrew Jackson on the banks (or even just the Fed) are you telling me that the right would not attack him as some sort of anti-capitalist? There is very little question in my mind that they would

I would not attack him.
You assume democrats would not attack him as well. BOTH parties do not want to address the FED. They are both bought and paid for by special interests and will fight tooth and nail to stop any curtailing of the abuses.
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Re: The Fed

Postby beretta24 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:23 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:If a Democratic president tried to go all Andrew Jackson on the banks (or even just the Fed) are you telling me that the right would not attack him as some sort of anti-capitalist? There is very little question in my mind that they would

I wouldn't argue, but I may just have a heart attack if I saw the current Pres try to do it. :lol3:
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Re: The Fed

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:07 pm

beretta24 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:If a Democratic president tried to go all Andrew Jackson on the banks (or even just the Fed) are you telling me that the right would not attack him as some sort of anti-capitalist? There is very little question in my mind that they would

I wouldn't argue, but I may just have a heart attack if I saw the current Pres try to do it. :lol3:

Thank you........I think this is one of those "only Nixon could go to China and Russia" things, similar to "only Clinton could touch welfare reform" And I do believe that if a Republican were to take this head-on, Democrats would not, en mass, oppose him. But I'm not holding my breath.
Inda...can you show me which Democrats were opposing the Warren appointment? There is some truth to the fact that Obama bailed on her, but you can't overlook the fact that what he caved to was pressure from the right (and the Tea Party right at that)
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Re: The Fed

Postby beretta24 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:17 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:If a Democratic president tried to go all Andrew Jackson on the banks (or even just the Fed) are you telling me that the right would not attack him as some sort of anti-capitalist? There is very little question in my mind that they would

I wouldn't argue, but I may just have a heart attack if I saw the current Pres try to do it. :lol3:

Thank you........I think this is one of those "only Nixon could go to China and Russia" things, similar to "only Clinton could touch welfare reform" And I do believe that if a Republican were to take this head-on, Democrats would not, en mass, oppose him. But I'm not holding my breath.
Inda...can you show me which Democrats were opposing the Warren appointment? There is some truth to the fact that Obama bailed on her, but you can't overlook the fact that what he caved to was pressure from the right (and the Tea Party right at that)

I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure this falls into that category. Call me blissfully ignorant, but I think if a Dem came out and said this was their goal, it would be supported on the right. At least that goal would be, but it's not to say the candidate would be supported. The reason I laugh at the idea of Obama doing this is because he has had every opportunity, and has shown that he's not willing to engage on this topic. He likely does not, as is the same with many on both sides, believe we can achieve his vision of the future of America without the Fed. I think that's a bipartisan view.
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Re: The Fed

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:09 pm

You guys are blissfully ignorant. If a president were to propose ending the FED and seriously put pressure to push for it, it will be opposed by both parties no matter what side of the isle the president hails from. He would need a coalition in both houses that will be impossible to get because of the monied interests.
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Re: The Fed

Postby assateague » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:43 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:If a Democratic president tried to go all Andrew Jackson on the banks (or even just the Fed) are you telling me that the right would not attack him as some sort of anti-capitalist? There is very little question in my mind that they would



I wouldn't. But remember, we're talking about the fed, not "banks".
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Re: The Fed

Postby beretta24 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:48 pm

Indaswamp wrote:You guys are blissfully ignorant. If a president were to propose ending the FED and seriously put pressure to push for it, it will be opposed by both parties no matter what side of the isle the president hails from. He would need a coalition in both houses that will be impossible to get because of the monied interests.


Inda, when I say "right" I am talking about citizens as opposed to establishment republicans that are holding office. I think the general response from the citizens would be different from those in power.
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