Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby clampdaddy » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:51 pm

Indaswamp wrote: I'm not the one bitching about the tea party or the occupy movement here BDD2.

And for the record, I wasn't bitching about the occupy crowd either. Just pointing out a reason why the tea party would not want to be associated with them in any way, shape or form.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:00 pm

assateague wrote:And who says they are "aghast at Wall Street excesses"? I don't give a crap how much money someone makes, as long as it's legal.
We have a major disconnect right here, you and me, and frankly it's a little surprising, AT. Since when were you, of all people, willing to sign off on the ethics (or even the effectiveness) of an action being determined by whether the government says it's legal or not?
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:02 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
Indaswamp wrote: I'm not the one bitching about the tea party or the occupy movement here BDD2.

And for the record, I wasn't bitching about the occupy crowd either. Just pointing out a reason why the tea party would not want to be associated with them in any way, shape or form.

If the Tea Party was scared off by those incidents to the point where they missed the vast part of the movement who were totally dedicated to making a larger point (a point which the Tea Party ought well have been in concert with), then that's another reason to be suspicious of them
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:05 pm

Arguing in the CI Forum and dressing my dog's reconstructed paw..........well, I just don't miss hunting a BIT!! :sad: :sad:
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby assateague » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:36 pm

I'll ask again, since I answered your question:

What plank in the Tea Party platform irritates liberals so much? What do they stand for that is so irksome?
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby clampdaddy » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:49 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
Indaswamp wrote: I'm not the one bitching about the tea party or the occupy movement here BDD2.

And for the record, I wasn't bitching about the occupy crowd either. Just pointing out a reason why the tea party would not want to be associated with them in any way, shape or form.

If the Tea Party was scared off by those incidents to the point where they missed the vast part of the movement who were totally dedicated to making a larger point (a point which the Tea Party ought well have been in concert with), then that's another reason to be suspicious of them

They rally to show their displeasure with the actions and ridiculous spending habits of the federal government.....why don't the occupiers join them? It's really a silly question. Different groups with different agendas.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:54 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
Indaswamp wrote: I'm not the one bitching about the tea party or the occupy movement here BDD2.

And for the record, I wasn't bitching about the occupy crowd either. Just pointing out a reason why the tea party would not want to be associated with them in any way, shape or form.

If the Tea Party was scared off by those incidents to the point where they missed the vast part of the movement who were totally dedicated to making a larger point (a point which the Tea Party ought well have been in concert with), then that's another reason to be suspicious of them

They rally to show their displeasure with the actions and ridiculous spending habits of the federal government.....why don't the occupiers join them? It's really a silly question. Different groups with different agendas.

Well, that's surely how they tended to see each other, but I really believe they had far more in common than their respective positions in the American political spectrum allowed them to see. But that's always the case, I suppose, just like in here
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:54 pm

assateague wrote:I'll ask again, since I answered your question:

What plank in the Tea Party platform irritates liberals so much? What do they stand for that is so irksome?

They looked good on paper
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby clampdaddy » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:31 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
Indaswamp wrote: I'm not the one bitching about the tea party or the occupy movement here BDD2.

And for the record, I wasn't bitching about the occupy crowd either. Just pointing out a reason why the tea party would not want to be associated with them in any way, shape or form.

If the Tea Party was scared off by those incidents to the point where they missed the vast part of the movement who were totally dedicated to making a larger point (a point which the Tea Party ought well have been in concert with), then that's another reason to be suspicious of them

They rally to show their displeasure with the actions and ridiculous spending habits of the federal government.....why don't the occupiers join them? It's really a silly question. Different groups with different agendas.

Well, that's surely how they tended to see each other, but I really believe they had far more in common than their respective positions in the American political spectrum allowed them to see. But that's always the case, I suppose, just like in here

There is some truth to that. I went to a tea party rally once in Modesto Ca. and I also made a quick, pass through appearance at an "occupy" demonstration in Monterey Ca. (believe it or not). I saw some of the same picket signs. "Vote for Ron Paul", end the wars, etc, etc. But there was a large difference I got out of the main messages. The tea party was upset that the government was wasting our tax dollars, whereas the "occupy" rally seemed to have a general discontent with the guys on wall street making money. I don't believe that these occupiers were the most informed members of their movement though as the small crowd seemed to be made up of mostly older hippy types and young homeless.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby cartervj » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:53 pm

Indaswamp wrote:gotta agree with clapdaddy...those instances did factually occur at occupy protests.



typo I hope :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:02 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:Arguing in the CI Forum and dressing my dog's reconstructed paw..........well, I just don't miss hunting a BIT!! :sad: :sad:

What's wrong with your pup?
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:05 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Arguing in the CI Forum and dressing my dog's reconstructed paw..........well, I just don't miss hunting a BIT!! :sad: :sad:

What's wrong with your pup?

I'll send a PM
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby clampdaddy » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:52 pm

cartervj wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:gotta agree with clapdaddy...those instances did factually occur at occupy protests.



typo I hope :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Only had it once and I didn't pass it on so I don't think I would qualify for a name like that. :lol3:
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:00 pm

cartervj wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:gotta agree with clapdaddy...those instances did factually occur at occupy protests.



typo I hope :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

:lol3: yes...fat finger missed the "m"...
for some reason the "l" and "?" on my computer was not working very well....apparently the key had become detached a litttle from the little wires the keys ride on. I had to push them down a little while ago to pop them back into place...
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby beretta24 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:07 am

Indaswamp wrote:
cartervj wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:gotta agree with clapdaddy...those instances did factually occur at occupy protests.



typo I hope :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

:lol3: yes...fat finger missed the "m"...
for some reason the "l" and "?" on my computer was not working very well....apparently the key had become detached a litttle from the little wires the keys ride on. I had to push them down a little while ago to pop them back into place...

Nearly 50000 posts will do that to a keyboard.

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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby vincentpa » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:31 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
cartervj wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:But better yet (since I have such good luck with this), here's your chance yet again, libs:

What exactly is it that the Tea Party stands for that you don't like?

Answer me first how much of their complaints were valid before Obama's administration. Then tell me where the hell they were. Further, if they were so aghast at Wall Street excesses, why did they never take their protests down there? To say I do not trust their motives would be an understatement



many were unaware of what was really happening, the timing of Obama and his incompetence cast a bright light on governmental failures

could be........I'll give you that. But color me skeptical



You should ask the ex-Democrats in SW PA why they became Tea Partiers. They would tell you about how they feared the ever expanding government benefits of which they received none. They saw the deficit balloon to the point they feared for the future of their children. Next, they would tell you about the loss of their jobs in the energy and coal industries, not because of market forces but government full-scale assault.

You believe the TP was co-opted. I don't think it was. The groups are too disparate as you've indicated. Certainly, there are groups within the movement that have been co-opted but they few compared with the actual number of TP groups there are. As for the crazies, movements like these always attract crazies. There is an opening for them to exploit for personal gain. The crazies are few. They seem to be more because of the media spotlight but they are still few. Anytime you have a rally or a protest, the real crazies show up. They are still few in number in the TP ranks. However, the media cherry-picked them out of crowd and attempted to smear the TP by painting them all as crazies, showing only the loons on TV. At almost every other rally or protest, be it the anti-war or the 99%ers of the Occupy Movement, the media ignored the crazies and portrayed them as serious and legitimate. As it turns out, much to the surprise of the NY Times, the average TPer is more educated than the general populace. Shock!

The message of the Tea Party is the right one, no pun intended. They just aren't very good politicians, yet… I hope.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:19 am

I'm still waiting for a liberal to state exactly what part of the Tea Party platform it is which gets them so incensed.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby clampdaddy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:56 am

assateague wrote:I'm still waiting for a liberal to state exactly what part of the Tea Party platform it is which gets them so incensed.


Me too. It's a straightforward question that should be easy to answer.

BDD2, just heard on the radio that Freedom Works marched with the ACLU this weekend to protest the privacy invasions committed by the NSA.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby blackduckdog2 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:11 am

clampdaddy wrote:
assateague wrote:I'm still waiting for a liberal to state exactly what part of the Tea Party platform it is which gets them so incensed.


Me too. It's a straightforward question that should be easy to answer.

BDD2, just heard on the radio that Freedom Works marched with the ACLU this weekend to protest the privacy invasions committed by the NSA.

Good on 'em says I.........there's always more common ground than seems apparent from ground zero in these fights.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby blackduckdog2 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:20 am

vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
cartervj wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:But better yet (since I have such good luck with this), here's your chance yet again, libs:

What exactly is it that the Tea Party stands for that you don't like?

Answer me first how much of their complaints were valid before Obama's administration. Then tell me where the hell they were. Further, if they were so aghast at Wall Street excesses, why did they never take their protests down there? To say I do not trust their motives would be an understatement



many were unaware of what was really happening, the timing of Obama and his incompetence cast a bright light on governmental failures

could be........I'll give you that. But color me skeptical



You should ask the ex-Democrats in SW PA why they became Tea Partiers. They would tell you about how they feared the ever expanding government benefits of which they received none. They saw the deficit balloon to the point they feared for the future of their children. Next, they would tell you about the loss of their jobs in the energy and coal industries, not because of market forces but government full-scale assault.

You believe the TP was co-opted. I don't think it was. The groups are too disparate as you've indicated. Certainly, there are groups within the movement that have been co-opted but they few compared with the actual number of TP groups there are. As for the crazies, movements like these always attract crazies. There is an opening for them to exploit for personal gain. The crazies are few. They seem to be more because of the media spotlight but they are still few. Anytime you have a rally or a protest, the real crazies show up. They are still few in number in the TP ranks. However, the media cherry-picked them out of crowd and attempted to smear the TP by painting them all as crazies, showing only the loons on TV. At almost every other rally or protest, be it the anti-war or the 99%ers of the Occupy Movement, the media ignored the crazies and portrayed them as serious and legitimate. As it turns out, much to the surprise of the NY Times, the average TPer is more educated than the general populace. Shock!

The message of the Tea Party is the right one, no pun intended. They just aren't very good politicians, yet… I hope.

There were Democrats out here who hooked up with the Tea Party too. Contrary to the strawman argument continually put forth on the right, liberals have no use for intrusive government either, but unlike the right (especially the Tea Party right) they recognize that the forces aligned against the common man (in economic terms) these days is going to require a fairly hefty government response. I know the right wants to believe that the free market will solve everything, but who's going to keep it free? Why were virtually ALL of the Tea Party's responses to the economic meltdown aimed at the Obama administration and virtually NONE at the perpetrators? WHY was there no demonstration on Wall Street? (if there had been, OWS might never have happened) I'm sorry, but their rabid government hating, to the irrational exclusion of any other danger else turns a lot of people off.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:44 am

You certainly do ask a lot of questions. For someone who won't even answer one, I mean.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby Gunnysway » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:03 am

BDD2 dodging the question Matrix style...

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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby vincentpa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:18 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:There were Democrats out here who hooked up with the Tea Party too. Contrary to the strawman argument continually put forth on the right, liberals have no use for intrusive government either, but unlike the right (especially the Tea Party right) they recognize that the forces aligned against the common man (in economic terms) these days is going to require a fairly hefty government response. I know the right wants to believe that the free market will solve everything, but who's going to keep it free? Why were virtually ALL of the Tea Party's responses to the economic meltdown aimed at the Obama administration and virtually NONE at the perpetrators? WHY was there no demonstration on Wall Street? (if there had been, OWS might never have happened) I'm sorry, but their rabid government hating, to the irrational exclusion of any other danger else turns a lot of people off.

I think that you've bought into the media narrative of the TP as well. You have concocted a position(s) for the TP that doesn't really exist. As Inda pointed out, the TP movement was originally a reaction to TARP. Indeed, the TP was indeed very angry with Wall Street for their shenanigans; so much so that they wanted those businesses and banks to fail. However, their anger extended to Washington more so. They were incensed that Washington was bailing out the private sector. The TP realized that WS made risky and imprudent business decisions but did nothing illegal. That is where the TP and Occupy part ways. Occupy wants to protest capitalism for the sake of hating capitalism. Occupy doesn't give a hoot that the "evil doers" on WS did absolutely nothing illegal. There was no rhyme or reason to Occupy's protests other than it sees capitalism as evil and wants it abolished.

The TP realizes that WS is in the business of making money and operates in a regulatory system that sets the business environment in which they earn their money, i.e. Washington creates the rules and sets many of the incentives. You know of the fable of the scorpion and the frog? A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too." The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"
Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."


Most of the TP's anger is focused on those they see as the root of the problem, Washington. They understand that WS is in the business of making money. WS will learn to earn money anyway it can in the regulatory environment in which it finds itself. Wall Street is the scorpion. You can't blame it for its nature. The TP rightly sees over-regulation, crony-capitalism and downright corruption as the biggest threat to the financial well-being of this country. They correctly recognize that business (WS) does not make the rules and incentives; they only operated within the environment created by Washington. How do you change this environment? One must change Washington. The TP sees Washington's ever expanding reach into the business community, be it WS regulation, taxes, healthcare, etc. as stifling economic liberty, growth and prosperity. I think the last 6 years have proven them correct. I won't even touch on personal liberty.


I would also disagree with you about capitalism not being able to solve the current problem. It most certainly would. Capitalism dictates that this problem would not happen again if the government would've allowed the businesses to fail that should've failed. The books would've cleared and other businesses wouldn't commit the same mistakes as those that failed for survival's sake. This is the way of capitalism. It has worked every time in the past. There is no reason to believe it wouldn't have worked this time. There was no need for a "hefty" government response. It was the government response that actually made the crisis worse; responses by both GWB and Barry, to be fair.

You've also distorted the TP's position on government's role in the marketplace to the extreme, as portrayed by the media. The position is that government's role in the marketplace should be as small as possible; not that it shouldn't exist. It should act as soley to ensure transparency, stop monopolistic activity, stop activities such as insider trading, etc. Washington's role should be only to ensure a healthy marketplace exists by way of no companies cheating.

Why would the TP protest private sector business on WS? It's absurd that they should do this. WS did nothing illegal. WS does not create policy. There is absolutely nothing to gain by doing this. If you want change, change Washington.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:27 pm

vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:There were Democrats out here who hooked up with the Tea Party too. Contrary to the strawman argument continually put forth on the right, liberals have no use for intrusive government either, but unlike the right (especially the Tea Party right) they recognize that the forces aligned against the common man (in economic terms) these days is going to require a fairly hefty government response. I know the right wants to believe that the free market will solve everything, but who's going to keep it free? Why were virtually ALL of the Tea Party's responses to the economic meltdown aimed at the Obama administration and virtually NONE at the perpetrators? WHY was there no demonstration on Wall Street? (if there had been, OWS might never have happened) I'm sorry, but their rabid government hating, to the irrational exclusion of any other danger else turns a lot of people off.

I think that you've bought into the media narrative of the TP as well. You have concocted a position(s) for the TP that doesn't really exist. As Inda pointed out, the TP movement was originally a reaction to TARP. Indeed, the TP was indeed very angry with Wall Street for their shenanigans; so much so that they wanted those businesses and banks to fail. However, their anger extended to Washington more so. They were incensed that Washington was bailing out the private sector. The TP realized that WS made risky and imprudent business decisions but did nothing illegal. That is where the TP and Occupy part ways. Occupy wants to protest capitalism for the sake of hating capitalism. Occupy doesn't give a hoot that the "evil doers" on WS did absolutely nothing illegal. There was no rhyme or reason to Occupy's protests other than it sees capitalism as evil and wants it abolished.

The TP realizes that WS is in the business of making money and operates in a regulatory system that sets the business environment in which they earn their money, i.e. Washington creates the rules and sets many of the incentives. You know of the fable of the scorpion and the frog? A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too." The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"
Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."


Most of the TP's anger is focused on those they see as the root of the problem, Washington. They understand that WS is in the business of making money. WS will learn to earn money anyway it can in the regulatory environment in which it finds itself. Wall Street is the scorpion. You can't blame it for its nature. The TP rightly sees over-regulation, crony-capitalism and downright corruption as the biggest threat to the financial well-being of this country. They correctly recognize that business (WS) does not make the rules and incentives; they only operated within the environment created by Washington. How do you change this environment? One must change Washington. The TP sees Washington's ever expanding reach into the business community, be it WS regulation, taxes, healthcare, etc. as stifling economic liberty, growth and prosperity. I think the last 6 years have proven them correct. I won't even touch on personal liberty.


I would also disagree with you about capitalism not being able to solve the current problem. It most certainly would. Capitalism dictates that this problem would not happen again if the government would've allowed the businesses to fail that should've failed. The books would've cleared and other businesses wouldn't commit the same mistakes as those that failed for survival's sake. This is the way of capitalism. It has worked every time in the past. There is no reason to believe it wouldn't have worked this time. There was no need for a "hefty" government response. It was the government response that actually made the crisis worse; responses by both GWB and Barry, to be fair.

You've also distorted the TP's position on government's role in the marketplace to the extreme, as portrayed by the media. The position is that government's role in the marketplace should be as small as possible; not that it shouldn't exist. It should act as soley to ensure transparency, stop monopolistic activity, stop activities such as insider trading, etc. Washington's role should be only to ensure a healthy marketplace exists by way of no companies cheating.

Why would the TP protest private sector business on WS? It's absurd that they should do this. WS did nothing illegal. WS does not create policy. There is absolutely nothing to gain by doing this. If you want change, change Washington.

nothing illegal?!?! you are out of your mind.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:30 pm

Exactly! There are plenty of laws being broken. The government is simply chosing not to enforce the law, which is a big part of what the Tea Party is hacking on the government about.
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