Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby vincentpa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:28 pm

Indaswamp wrote:nothing illegal?!?! you are out of your mind.



illegal or unethical as you see it?
In a free society, it is not the obligation of the citizen to prove to the government that he is a good person. It is the obligation of the government to prove to the rest of the citizenry that the citizen is a bad person, with probable cause.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:58 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:There were Democrats out here who hooked up with the Tea Party too. Contrary to the strawman argument continually put forth on the right, liberals have no use for intrusive government either, but unlike the right (especially the Tea Party right) they recognize that the forces aligned against the common man (in economic terms) these days is going to require a fairly hefty government response. I know the right wants to believe that the free market will solve everything, but who's going to keep it free? Why were virtually ALL of the Tea Party's responses to the economic meltdown aimed at the Obama administration and virtually NONE at the perpetrators? WHY was there no demonstration on Wall Street? (if there had been, OWS might never have happened) I'm sorry, but their rabid government hating, to the irrational exclusion of any other danger else turns a lot of people off.

Fairly hefty. :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: The government already directly controls 40% of the economy and regulates, granted often like the three stooges, the hell out of most of the rest.

The government is failing. Look at Detroit. It was the government that destroyed that city. It was not Wall Street. The worst destruction in history is from out of control governments.

How little of what the government does today is about keeping us free? It's all about spending money, making money, using your power and influence for personal gain.

Wall street is the scapegoat for the failure of the failure of government.

Anti-big government is not anti-government. It doesn't take an advanced English degree to know their is a big difference.

The reality is government cannot do the scope of what it has taken on. It is simply impossible. Not in theory, but in the reality is that the people that need to be in charge will never be in charge and those that should not be in charge are the ones that will be in charge.

How can you have representative government if most business is done without any ability for the people to provide feed back. Obamacare was not put out for everyone to read, debate, and express their opinions to their representatives. Almost every piece of legislation is done in haste. If that is not proof that government is wildly too big and collapsing under its own excesses, I don't know what is.

Of course businesses need to be regulated to ensure they are not committing fraud, endangering others, and all of that, but without massive descoping and requiring that adult Americans be responsible for their own lives and not irresponsible children of the state, it will never happen.

There are no big government solutions to most of the liberals desires. Social security can be done without funneling any money through the government. Probably every big corporation in America has a solid retirement system to provides vastly better value for its employees than the government's corrupt social security system. The one's that fail are the union pensions and not the non-union individual retirement plans. Freedom works better. It does not solve all problems. It minimizes the problems to be solved and the consequences of the negative aspects of human nature and amplifies the positive aspects of human nature. Perfect it is not. It is just the best we can do and the government needs to get back to having the protecting of our individual freedom as the vast majority of its business and the general welfare as a secondary and subordinate part of what it does.

The Tea Party is focused on the right thing. A government that is so big that every member of it is overwhelmed by the burden that is orders of magnitude greater than any human being can handle. It's time to get back to basics. That's the only way the crooks and criminals outside government will get the attention they deserve and do not desire and the harm from the crooks inside government will not overwhelm any benefit we got from government. Your simply living in a fantasy world that people exist that can run the behemoth we have today. It cannot be done. Time to scale back to the essentials and make being an adult have some meaning again.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:36 pm

vincentpa wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:nothing illegal?!?! you are out of your mind.



illegal or unethical as you see it?

JP Morgan doesn't just pay a fine for schits and giggles. Goldman Sachs too. Oh, how about MF Global? :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby vincentpa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:22 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:nothing illegal?!?! you are out of your mind.



illegal or unethical as you see it?

JP Morgan doesn't just pay a fine for schits and giggles. Goldman Sachs too. Oh, how about MF Global? :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:


They pay extortion to government solely for political reasons.


Sent from my iPhone 5, which sucks my cojones. Don't buy one.
In a free society, it is not the obligation of the citizen to prove to the government that he is a good person. It is the obligation of the government to prove to the rest of the citizenry that the citizen is a bad person, with probable cause.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby vincentpa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:29 pm

I will add to Spinner's post:

The attempt to control the infinitely complex creates disastrous unintended consequences. I once read a GW U economics professor explain it once using a puzzle metaphor I'll try to find the article.

Another crazy thing to contemplate, American business now spends as much money to comply with regulations as they do in taxes.


Sent from my iPhone 5, which sucks my cojones. Don't buy one.
In a free society, it is not the obligation of the citizen to prove to the government that he is a good person. It is the obligation of the government to prove to the rest of the citizenry that the citizen is a bad person, with probable cause.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:40 pm

vincentpa wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:nothing illegal?!?! you are out of your mind.



illegal or unethical as you see it?

JP Morgan doesn't just pay a fine for schits and giggles. Goldman Sachs too. Oh, how about MF Global? :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:


They pay extortion to government solely for political reasons.


Sent from my iPhone 5, which sucks my cojones. Don't buy one.

I said fines, as in they were prosecuted. :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby vincentpa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:47 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:nothing illegal?!?! you are out of your mind.



illegal or unethical as you see it?

JP Morgan doesn't just pay a fine for schits and giggles. Goldman Sachs too. Oh, how about MF Global? :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:


They pay extortion to government solely for political reasons.


Sent from my iPhone 5, which sucks my cojones. Don't buy one.

I said fines, as in they were prosecuted. :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:


I don't recall them being found guilty of anything. They agreed to pay without adjudication.


Sent from my iPhone 5, which sucks my cojones. Don't buy one.
In a free society, it is not the obligation of the citizen to prove to the government that he is a good person. It is the obligation of the government to prove to the rest of the citizenry that the citizen is a bad person, with probable cause.
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Re: Suffocated in the crib by the smarter people

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:56 pm

Which means they are guilty. Paying up front is far cheaper than going to court and spending the money on your lawyers time and effort then still have to pay, and quite possibly a lot more. Add in the bad publicity and you have companies hopping in line to pay a fine. It should be noted that the fines never add up to the total amount made so they company is still making a profit off the illegal act.
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