Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

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Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:37 pm

As if the technological problems facing Obamacare were not enough, a potentially major "legal glitch" could cause the healthcare law to unravel in 36 states. As the LA Times reports, The Affordable Care Act proposes to make health insurance affordable to millions of low-income Americans by offering them tax credits to help cover the cost. To receive the credit, the law twice says they must buy insurance "through an exchange established by the state." But 36 states have decided against opening exchanges for now. Critics of the law have seized on the glitch. They have filed four lawsuits that urge judges to rule the Obama administration must abide by the strict wording of the law, even if doing so dismantles it in nearly two-thirds of the states. And the Obama administration has no hope of repairing the glitch by legislation as long as the Republicans control the House..."This has the potential to sink Obamacare. It could make the current website problems seem minor by comparison," noted on policy expert.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-26/legal-glitch-has-potential-sink-obamacare

What sort of contortions will be put forward to defend this?
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:00 am

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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:02 am

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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:05 am

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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby possumfoot » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:04 am

is there a list of the states??
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:35 am

possumfoot wrote:is there a list of the states??

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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby boney fingers » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:29 am

When do they ever follow the letter of the law?
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby possumfoot » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:04 pm

glad tn is out...


also, that is an interesting map.. gonna be interesting in the up coming elections.. looks like it could come down to a states rights battle.. again..
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby beretta24 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 am

I'm ashamed of the ignorance of the people in my state.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:41 am

beretta24 wrote:I'm ashamed of the ignorance of the people in my state.

My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby beretta24 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:56 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:I'm ashamed of the ignorance of the people in my state.

My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.


And???
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:58 am

beretta24 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:I'm ashamed of the ignorance of the people in my state.

My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.


And???

worked out OK for them.........I'm guessing this is the first story you've heard to that effect
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby Rat Creek » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:07 am

Where were they living that there was no health insurance available? Or do you mean to say, this is the first time they have bothered to purchase health insurance, and they did it because they knew someone else's money would fund it? I think that is likely more accurate.

Classic example of excusing a disaster because a tiny minority of people have taken advantage of other people's money. And if that is not the case, then why have they not bothered to have insurance previously? :huh:
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:40 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:I'm ashamed of the ignorance of the people in my state.

My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.



They should've logged on to ehealthinsurance.com. They coudl've had insurance, and realized how cheaply it could have been had. At least until now. I don't know that I'd care to have people too stupid to get health insurance allowed to teach children.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby beretta24 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:18 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:I'm ashamed of the ignorance of the people in my state.

My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.


And???

worked out OK for them.........I'm guessing this is the first story you've heard to that effect


If they're paying the $300 or so a month I keep seeing get tossed around or the $700-800 if they have a couple kids they likely could have paid less prior to the implementation of the ACA.

You won't find me bitch about the pre-existing condition idea, although from what I've read the implementation kind of sucks, but people my age and younger are getting f'ed because they are forcing healthcare that covers much more than catostrophic insurance down everyone's throat.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:32 am

beretta24 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:I'm ashamed of the ignorance of the people in my state.

My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.


And???

worked out OK for them.........I'm guessing this is the first story you've heard to that effect


If they're paying the $300 or so a month I keep seeing get tossed around or the $700-800 if they have a couple kids they likely could have paid less prior to the implementation of the ACA.

You won't find me bitch about the pre-existing condition idea, although from what I've read the implementation kind of sucks, but people my age and younger are getting f'ed because they are forcing healthcare that covers much more than catostrophic insurance down everyone's throat.

that $300 a month times 12 months is $3600. But you have to add in the deductible you will pay, so it easily jumps to $5-6000 per year. More if you have a family.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:04 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:I'm ashamed of the ignorance of the people in my state.

My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.


And???

worked out OK for them.........I'm guessing this is the first story you've heard to that effect

When it was sold, was there talk of winners and losers or was it supposed to be all winners?

And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. ... If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. ... No one will take it away, no matter what. - President Barack Obama

If you like what you're getting, keep it. Nobody is forcing you to shift. - President Barack Obama

This was an absolute lie. Many plans people liked do not satisfy the legal constraints imposed by Obamacare so they are forced by law to shift. That's one of the major things the law did. This was not a glitch. This is what the law was designed to do. It is not news that a few people benefit. It is news that 100's of thousands were lied to so Obama could give us Obamacare. It makes me think of this scene from The Fugitive.



http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/24/health-insurance-cancellation-notices-soar-above-obamacare-enrollment-rates/

Hundreds of thousands of Americans who purchase their own health insurance have received cancellation notices since August because the plans do not meet Obamacare’s requirements.

The number of cancellation notices greatly exceed the number of Obamacare enrollees.

Insurance carrier Florida Blue sent out 300,000 cancellation notices, or 80 percent of the entire state’s individual coverage policies, Kaiser Health News reports. California’s Kaiser Permanente canceled 160,000 plans — half of its insurance plans in the state — while Blue Shield of California sent 119,000 notices in mid-September alone.

Two major insurance carriers in Pennsylvania, Insurance Highmark in Pittsburgh and Independence Blue Cross in Philadelphia plan to cancel 20 percent and 45 percent of their total plans, respectively.

Nearly 800,000 New Jersey residents’ health-care plans will not longer exist in 2014, forcing insurers to create new ones for individuals and small business owners that hew to the Obamacare’s new regulations, The New Jersey Star Ledger found in early October.

Nobody said that there would be zero people that would benefit. We just said it would totally screw up the health care system and it is. And the insane subsidies and penalties have created all kinds of insane incentives for employers to cut hours and works to not make too much money. It is a total disaster, but yes, even in the biggest disasters, there are always some winners. The glass is 1% full.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:27 pm

assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
beretta24 wrote:I'm ashamed of the ignorance of the people in my state.

My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.



They should've logged on to ehealthinsurance.com. They coudl've had insurance, and realized how cheaply it could have been had. At least until now. I don't know that I'd care to have people too stupid to get health insurance allowed to teach children.

Pretty sure I've heard you advocating for young adults' rights to refuse to buy health insurance. Pretty sure you didn't call them stupid
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:57 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.



They should've logged on to ehealthinsurance.com. They coudl've had insurance, and realized how cheaply it could have been had. At least until now. I don't know that I'd care to have people too stupid to get health insurance allowed to teach children.

Pretty sure I've heard you advocating for young adults' rights to refuse to buy health insurance. Pretty sure you didn't call them stupid



Nope. But in your example, it was plain to see that they WANTED it, or else you wouldn't have posted what you did. Unless you were speaking to the coercion involved in obamacare. If you can't see the difference between someone WANTING to buy it and "can't" and NOT wanting to buy it and "don't", well then I guess you're being purposefully obtuse. Maybe if I had said "too stupid to figure out how to get health insurance" it would've been clearer.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:03 pm

For the longest time my wife bought her own health insurance and she had a pre-existing condition and had no trouble getting it for an affordable rate. We carried a pretty high deductible, but I showed her that her average annual health care expenses had exceed a pretty high number before it was cheaper to go with the lower deductible and much higher premium and her average annual costs were much lower than what made sense to go with the higher premium.

All pre-existing conditions are not created equal. Hers was not chronically expensive, but it was eventually quite expensive. So even just lumping them and saying anything about pre-existing conditions is silly. We paid a higher premium because of it, but it was far from prohibitive.

People without reasonable math skills should simply not talk about insurance because the only thing they are talking about is their feelings about the way they wish things are. They can't grasp the simple underlying math that cannot be violated.

Of course, it is this ignorance of basic college math skills (algebra is middle school math) that has allowed the health insurance companies to use the useful idiots in Congress to drive health care expenditures through the roof and therefore the profits of the health insurance companies through the roof. Even the Obama 80/20 rule. 20% of a huge number is far better than 50% of a much smaller number. And that is what they have done over the years and now those numbers are getting so huge that people are demanding action, but they don't want to give up all the things they have come to enjoy, but don't want to pay for. So many want the government to tax them, I mean the guy next to them just like the guy sitting next to you wants the guy next to him to pay for it, so they can pretend like they are not paying for it.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:32 pm

assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.



They should've logged on to ehealthinsurance.com. They coudl've had insurance, and realized how cheaply it could have been had. At least until now. I don't know that I'd care to have people too stupid to get health insurance allowed to teach children.

Pretty sure I've heard you advocating for young adults' rights to refuse to buy health insurance. Pretty sure you didn't call them stupid



Nope. But in your example, it was plain to see that they WANTED it, or else you wouldn't have posted what you did. Unless you were speaking to the coercion involved in obamacare. If you can't see the difference between someone WANTING to buy it and "can't" and NOT wanting to buy it and "don't", well then I guess you're being purposefully obtuse. Maybe if I had said "too stupid to figure out how to get health insurance" it would've been clearer.

Actually just spoke with them........they did have minimal coverage and found something on the exchange that was more comprehensive and fit their situation much better, so they pulled the trigger. Also they're older than they used to be and maybe they'd have pulled the trigger anyhow. I didn't dig for details since we're not that close.....Want me to find out more?
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:26 pm

BTW, Obama doesn't care about the law or the truth.

For the liberals, this is NBC, the network affiliated with MSNBC. This is NOT Fox News. This is part of team Obama.
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite

Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

“This says that when they made the promise, they knew half the people in this market outright couldn’t keep what they had and then they wrote the rules so that others couldn’t make it either,” said Robert Laszewski, of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, a consultant who works for health industry firms. Laszewski estimates that 80 percent of those in the individual market will not be able to keep their current policies and will have to buy insurance that meets requirements of the new law, which generally requires a richer package of benefits than most policies today.


But I will be happy to conceed that Obama and his administration are too Image stupid to be liars.

Of course, the evil Republicans will refuse to help them fix the idiotic law they rammed through in a highly dubious way even after a Republican won in Massachusetts with a key part of his campaign being to stop this law.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:36 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.



They should've logged on to ehealthinsurance.com. They coudl've had insurance, and realized how cheaply it could have been had. At least until now. I don't know that I'd care to have people too stupid to get health insurance allowed to teach children.

Pretty sure I've heard you advocating for young adults' rights to refuse to buy health insurance. Pretty sure you didn't call them stupid



Nope. But in your example, it was plain to see that they WANTED it, or else you wouldn't have posted what you did. Unless you were speaking to the coercion involved in obamacare. If you can't see the difference between someone WANTING to buy it and "can't" and NOT wanting to buy it and "don't", well then I guess you're being purposefully obtuse. Maybe if I had said "too stupid to figure out how to get health insurance" it would've been clearer.

Actually just spoke with them........they did have minimal coverage and found something on the exchange that was more comprehensive and fit their situation much better, so they pulled the trigger. Also they're older than they used to be and maybe they'd have pulled the trigger anyhow. I didn't dig for details since we're not that close.....Want me to find out more?



No need. You already proved your initial statement was false.
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:41 pm

assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:My niece is a free-lance drama teacher/coach in the public and private schools. Her husband is an actor and also teaches history as a substitute. Her family now has actual health care for the first time in their lives.



They should've logged on to ehealthinsurance.com. They coudl've had insurance, and realized how cheaply it could have been had. At least until now. I don't know that I'd care to have people too stupid to get health insurance allowed to teach children.

Pretty sure I've heard you advocating for young adults' rights to refuse to buy health insurance. Pretty sure you didn't call them stupid



Nope. But in your example, it was plain to see that they WANTED it, or else you wouldn't have posted what you did. Unless you were speaking to the coercion involved in obamacare. If you can't see the difference between someone WANTING to buy it and "can't" and NOT wanting to buy it and "don't", well then I guess you're being purposefully obtuse. Maybe if I had said "too stupid to figure out how to get health insurance" it would've been clearer.

Actually just spoke with them........they did have minimal coverage and found something on the exchange that was more comprehensive and fit their situation much better, so they pulled the trigger. Also they're older than they used to be and maybe they'd have pulled the trigger anyhow. I didn't dig for details since we're not that close.....Want me to find out more?



No need. You already proved your initial statement was false.

hmmm....yeah I guess that's the takeaway here. Or that a young couple signed up for health insurance via the ACA website and came away totally satisfied, after never having been satisfied with what they could manage before. Anything to fit the narrative, I guess
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Re: Will Obamacare follow letter of law or not?

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:44 pm

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Do you mean your ever-changing narrative, or my narrative which says that obamacare should have availed itself of one of the abortions that it dictates must be paid for, before it wrecks the economy and healthcare in this country?

I thought liberals were all about the "greatest good" nonsense. It appears that in this case, the exact opposite is true. "The greatest good for those we deem needy at the expense of the majority"
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