Slack Tide wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:We need to change it.
You are correct but there is a huge difference between the in-class instruction and the administration of the building..you are talking more about policy and I am focusing more on curriculum and instruction.
I am talking about the system. You are correct. One teacher, one classroom, the curriculum, ... By themselves they are meaningless. It is the integral impact of the system. By the time the kids have 8 years in a broken system, there is nothing a single teacher can do. You cannot undo nearly 10,000 hours of training in the span of a few 10's of hours of individual attention. It's like anything, dogs which we are most familiar with, it doesn't matter how good you are if when you are gone someone else is teaching your dog all the wrong things.
BTW, this doesn't argue for paying teachers monopoly rates. Free market rates will get the same results at a much lower cost.
While I disagree that a monkey could do it, but I don't think quality has improved much since the requirements of college degrees and all of that. Nuns have done a good job with nothing but practical on the job experience. I think in the worst schools instead of hiring college grads with teaching degrees, the system would work far better if they went down to the local construction craft union hall and hired the guys that are the foreman on most jobs and made them the teacher.
The only time I truly misbehaved badly in class was when I had a teacher in 11th grade that was clearly scared of us. He just brought the worst out of all the boys because he was so obviously scared. Put a tough construction worker at the front of the class that can run a construction job and everybody will sit down and shut the hell up and more will do their work as well and the net will be a better outcome.
One thing I used to do in this class was sit at the back of an empty row and slowly push the row of desks forward until he was walking around them as he tried to teach. One day I pushed a little to hard and the whole row fell over. He picked them up without saying a word
He had no business in a class room and had been there for well over a decade at that point. After 6 years of Spanish, I didn't take another year. No freaking way was I taking one more year with this douche. After souring me on something I really enjoyed, I never took it in college and now have lost it all pretty much. At that point I could read just about anything in Spanish and follow any conversation. Don't really know how well I could communicate given that I really had no experience given the Hispanic population was ~0 and I never lived anywhere that there was a significant population that routinely spoke Spanish until about a decade later.
Gunnysway wrote:What if our crime rate went from #1 (being the safest place in the world) to #17, #19, #25, #33...?
It's much worse than that in many parts of the country and the so-called leaders in those areas rise to be President. So I think we have the answer
I still think there may be fatal flaws in that study.
For example, China is ranked very highly, but if you look at the education index and they rank very poorly.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index
The Education Index is calculated from the Mean years of schooling index and the Expected years of schooling index.
How do you resolve these two? It seems pretty easy. By age 15, when the PISA test is taken, the school system has largely weeded out the lower IQ students and retained the high IQ students. That and it's China. They probably just flat out cheat as well.
It doesn't explain all of the difference, but I am sure there is a strong direct inverse relationship between the fraction of kids in school at age 15 and the performance on the PISA test.
Rat Creek wrote:Absolute true story. My sister is a chemical engineer by degree and profession. She graduated from the University of Missouri - Science and Technology. It is a very good engineering school by any measure. Anyway, when some of her classmates were failing to make the grade and were not going to be accepted into their engineering school of choice, they were always told that they could always become a teacher. The same held true at the school I attended. The School of Education became the dumping ground.
Same where I went. The education school got a whole lot of flunk out engineers.
Stupid people can cause problems, but it usually takes brilliant people to create a real catastrophe. Thomas Sowell