smoking does kill

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smoking does kill

Postby thedeadone » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:46 am

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Re: smoking does kill

Postby stackemhigh » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:06 pm

So a little thug steals a truck with a trailer attached, drives it through town running red lights, slams it into a police car, and we're supposed to feel sorry because the cops shot him before he could run someone over?
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby wanapasaki » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:15 pm

Someone else posted this on dhc a few days ago I believe. It's a sad situation. Sounds like he was definitely dealing with some of his own demons. Not sure about the cops escalation of force. There's no way how to tell how someone is going to react in escalated high stress situations. M condolences to the families loss of course. Just a bad situation :no:
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby stackemhigh » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:43 pm

I agree it's a bad situation and I feel for the family. I just have a problem with the parents and everybody else questioning the cops in this situation. The cops aren't your babysitter. You call the cops when your kids steals the car, all the cop knows is that a stolen car they're trying to pull over is speeding through a college town and ramming cop cars. They didn't fire any shots until he went off road in what looks like the middle of campus. Watch for yourself.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ames-officer-cleared-in-isu-chase-shooting/article_3398ae2a-47d9-11e3-ae59-001a4bcf887a.html
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby wanapasaki » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:45 pm

stackemhigh wrote:I agree it's a bad situation and I feel for the family. I just have a problem with the parents and everybody else questioning the cops in this situation. The cops aren't your babysitter. You call the cops when your kids steals the car, all the cop knows is that a stolen car they're trying to pull over is speeding through a college town and ramming cop cars. They didn't fire any shots until he went off road in what looks like the middle of campus. Watch for yourself.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ames-officer-cleared-in-isu-chase-shooting/article_3398ae2a-47d9-11e3-ae59-001a4bcf887a.html



I agree, they did what they thought they had to do to prevent any innocent bystanders from getting killed
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby boney fingers » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:02 pm

A truck can be used as a deadly weapon (the boy had already showed his willingness to use it as such) he did not shut it down when ordered, (just like not giving up your weapon). It sucks for the family, but the fault lies with the kid. Thankfully no INNOCENT people were harmed.
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby thedeadone » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:56 am

what I learn from these situations is to never call the police.
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:42 am

boney fingers wrote: but the fault lies with the THE YOUNG MAN

FIFY.

He was 19. An adult by any measure.

I hate when we infantalize adults.

If he led such an isolated life that he didn't realize that he might get shot if he acted in a threatening manner with a deadly weapon, wow did his parents, schools, and every one involved in raising this young man to adulthood fail which seems quite likely given how things went.

Comstock told The Des Moines Register that his son wasn’t armed.
He had a freaking deadly weapon. Cars kill over 30,000 people every year. They are quite deadly and easily used that way.

Is this what they think it's like when some nutjob is out of control in a car?

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Re: smoking does kill

Postby Glimmerjim » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:30 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
boney fingers wrote: but the fault lies with the THE YOUNG MAN

FIFY.

He was 19. An adult by any measure.

I hate when we infantalize adults.

If he led such an isolated life that he didn't realize that he might get shot if he acted in a threatening manner with a deadly weapon, wow did his parents, schools, and every one involved in raising this young man to adulthood fail which seems quite likely given how things went.

Comstock told The Des Moines Register that his son wasn’t armed.
He had a freaking deadly weapon. Cars kill over 30,000 people every year. They are quite deadly and easily used that way.

Is this what they think it's like when some nutjob is out of control in a car?


The only measure by which 19 can be considered universally "adult" is arbitrary chronology, Spinner. It also strikes me that you are supporting both sides of your argument. You state a likely "failure" in those responsible for his maturing process, and also state that as an "adult" he is completely responsible for his actions. We are all products of our genetics and environment. I am not, however, defending his lack of responsibility, just debating your response to same.
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:01 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:The only measure by which 19 can be considered universally "adult" is arbitrary chronology, Spinner.

So you disagree that at 19 you are a young adult? If not, please let's ban them from voting for starters.

Glimmerjim wrote: It also strikes me that you are supporting both sides of your argument. You state a likely "failure" in those responsible for his maturing process, and also state that as an "adult" he is completely responsible for his actions.
How so? When you become an adult, you are responsible for your actions and you should bear the full consequences of them.

If a young black man has the misfortune to have grown up and lived his entire life in a Democrat stronghold like Detroit, DC, Chicago, etc., it does not make him any less responsible for his actions. Sure there is a much higher likelihood that he will not be able to read. It is now upon him to over come that. Sure it is much more likely that he has learned no job skills. It is now upon him to over come that. Sure there is a much higher likelihood that crime was common place in his life. It is now upon him to over come that. None of that absolves him from the consequences of his action. He is an adult. He is no longer a child. A young child robs a bank. We treat him very different than a young man.

Yes, 18 is arbitrary, but it is necessary. A bright line so everybody knows which side of that line they are on. As you approach that line, it's a steady increase in responsibility and not a step change from infant to adult, but once you cross that line, welcome to adulthood. You can vote. You can be drafted. You now must be responsible for 100% of your actions the same as any other adult whether 18 or 80.

If he was a 12 year old, sure, you go that extra mile to try not to have to kill him. At 19, if in doubt, take him out and don't let him endanger anyone else. He chose to act in this reckless manor and he knows the potential consequences when confronted by men with guns.
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby aunt betty » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:57 pm

thedeadone wrote:what I learn from these situations is to never call the police.

:mrgreen:

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Re: smoking does kill

Postby boney fingers » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:59 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
boney fingers wrote: but the fault lies with the THE YOUNG MAN

FIFY.

He was 19. An adult by any measure.

I hate when we infantalize adults."

Point taken, Im getting to that age where it is hard to accept the fact that someone half my age has entered manhood.
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby Glimmerjim » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:10 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:The only measure by which 19 can be considered universally "adult" is arbitrary chronology, Spinner.

SpinnerMan wrote: So you disagree that at 19 you are a young adult? If not, please let's ban them from voting for starters. .


I would have no issues with that change whatsoever, Spinner.

Glimmerjim wrote: It also strikes me that you are supporting both sides of your argument. You state a likely "failure" in those responsible for his maturing process, and also state that as an "adult" he is completely responsible for his actions.



SpinnerMan wrote: Yes, 18 is arbitrary, but it is necessary. A bright line so everybody knows which side of that line they are on. As you approach that line, it's a steady increase in responsibility and not a step change from infant to adult, but once you cross that line, welcome to adulthood. You can vote. You can be drafted. You now must be responsible for 100% of your actions the same as any other adult whether 18 or 80.


I suppose you are correct in practice, Spinner, and there is little in the way of alternatives. I just see SO much difference in maturity between various members of the late teen, early post-teen group, that I am baffled that we can even consider them as equals. Nothing profound in my thoughts, nor is the system necessarily in need of change, just an observation.
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:25 pm

thedeadone wrote:what I learn from these situations is to never call the police.



An intelligent person would have learned that you save the fight for the lawyers when a bunch of cops have guns pointed at you and are telling you to stop.
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:32 am

Glimmerjim wrote:I suppose you are correct in practice, Spinner, and there is little in the way of alternatives. I just see SO much difference in maturity between various members of the late teen, early post-teen group, that I am baffled that we can even consider them as equals. Nothing profound in my thoughts, nor is the system necessarily in need of change, just an observation.

I see where you are coming from and don't disagree. Very poor wording on my part. You might even go so far as saying what I said was technically wrong :eek: Thanks. Adulthood is not an easy thing to define technically, but in practice 19 is 100% or should be in my never humble opinion.

I used to teach a freshmen engineering graphics class. It was mostly 18-19 year olds, but there were a few upper classmen. It was amazing to see the transformation between 18 and 21. You are definitely spot on with that.

The problem is that so little responsibility is put on kids in the early and mid teens so that by the time they are legally adult, too many aren't as responsible as they need to be.
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby ohioboy » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:31 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:I suppose you are correct in practice, Spinner, and there is little in the way of alternatives. I just see SO much difference in maturity between various members of the late teen, early post-teen group, that I am baffled that we can even consider them as equals. Nothing profound in my thoughts, nor is the system necessarily in need of change, just an observation.

I see where you are coming from and don't disagree. Very poor wording on my part. You might even go so far as saying what I said was technically wrong :eek: Thanks. Adulthood is not an easy thing to define technically, but in practice 19 is 100% or should be in my never humble opinion.

I used to teach a freshmen engineering graphics class. It was mostly 18-19 year olds, but there were a few upper classmen. It was amazing to see the transformation between 18 and 21. You are definitely spot on with that.

The problem is that so little responsibility is put on kids in the early and mid teens so that by the time they are legally adult, too many aren't as responsible as they need to be.

spot on with this one Spinner. we have to set an age as "adult" even though some might not make it there for another 10 years.

I had a highschool freshman last year tell me they had to go "pee pee and poo poo". dead serious. :eek:
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Re: smoking does kill

Postby Glimmerjim » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:11 pm

SpinnerMan wrote: The problem is that so little responsibility is put on kids in the early and mid teens so that by the time they are legally adult, too many aren't as responsible as they need to be.

Absolutely correct, Spinner. And it doesn't seem to really have any socio-economic demographics. The "haves" certainly oftentimes produce wrecks from depriving their children of any sense of responsibility and self-reliance, and the "have-nots" produce wrecks from complete indifference to the welfare of their children. I think that was part and parcel of the concept of "middle class" here, but the "middle class" is in such a state of turmoil these days that it is hard to find group tendencies.
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