Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

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Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby wanapasaki » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:52 pm

This is awesome. I am glad that guy blazed through the check station...

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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby ScaupHunter » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:19 pm

We all need to do the same thing. A right not exercised is no right at all.
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby wanapasaki » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:49 pm

Exactly! The few times I have ever been pulled over, the CHP officer always want to run the serial number on my shotgun...Negative ghost rider :fingerpt:
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby ScaupHunter » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:30 pm

I have only had one issue like this. A city cop wanted to take a listol that I had concealed with the proper permit. Things got tense when I told him no. I told him I had the weapon and gave him my permit with my license when he walked up to my window. He said it was for his protection. I told him that keeping it was for mine. His Sergeant ended up stopping by and looked it all over and let me go on my way. I have never understood that interaction. The sime act of showing my permit and telling him about the weapon should have settled his fears.
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby wanapasaki » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:32 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:I have only had one issue like this. A city cop wanted to take a listol that I had concealed with the proper permit. Things got tense when I told him no. I told him I had the weapon and gave him my permit with my license when he walked up to my window. He said it was for his protection. I told him that keeping it was for mine. His Sergeant ended up stopping by and looked it all over and let me go on my way. I have never understood that interaction. The sime act of showing my permit and telling him about the weapon should have settled his fears.


You let the sergeant inspect the firearm?
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby ScaupHunter » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:50 pm

wanapasaki wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:I have only had one issue like this. A city cop wanted to take a listol that I had concealed with the proper permit. Things got tense when I told him no. I told him I had the weapon and gave him my permit with my license when he walked up to my window. He said it was for his protection. I told him that keeping it was for mine. His Sergeant ended up stopping by and looked it all over and let me go on my way. I have never understood that interaction. The sime act of showing my permit and telling him about the weapon should have settled his fears.


You let the sergeant inspect the firearm?


Visually. He asked me to lift my shirt so he could verify it was a legal weapon. He did not ask to handle or take possession of the pistol. I felt that request was reasonable. He looked at the 1911 in the holster, said thanks for your cooperation and sent me on my way.
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby wanapasaki » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:52 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:
wanapasaki wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:I have only had one issue like this. A city cop wanted to take a listol that I had concealed with the proper permit. Things got tense when I told him no. I told him I had the weapon and gave him my permit with my license when he walked up to my window. He said it was for his protection. I told him that keeping it was for mine. His Sergeant ended up stopping by and looked it all over and let me go on my way. I have never understood that interaction. The sime act of showing my permit and telling him about the weapon should have settled his fears.


You let the sergeant inspect the firearm?


Visually. He asked me to lift my shirt so he could verify it was a legal weapon. He did not ask to handle or take possession of the pistol. I felt that request was reasonable. He looked at the 1911 in the holster, said thanks for your cooperation and sent me on my way.



Hopefully he bitched his officer out, for posing as a liability towards the department lol
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:52 pm

wanapasaki wrote:Exactly! The few times I have ever been pulled over, the CHP officer always want to run the serial number on my shotgun...Negative ghost rider :fingerpt:

I used to hunt with an older gentleman that loved to mess with game wardens who try to act like big shots. We get stopped by "that" warden. Flat top haircut, aviator glasses, trousers bloused into his boots, demanding tone, the whole bit. He walks up and without saying hi or exchanging any pleasantries he says "Deer tags.". Bill tells him "all you need to see is in the back of the truck". Right now I'm really confused but Bill gives me a quick smile to let me know it's all good and then puts his game face back on. The warden steps to the back of the truck, walks back up to the window with a puzzled look on his face and says "There's no deer back there" to which my friend replies "No sh!t junior, and that is why I don't have to show you a fu@&ing deer tag. Now why exactly are you wasting my time?" :lol3: The look on that game wardens face was priceless. He didn't even bother asking to see Bills hunting license. He looked in the cab and saw that we had the bolts open on our rifles and sent us on our way.
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby wanapasaki » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:59 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
wanapasaki wrote:Exactly! The few times I have ever been pulled over, the CHP officer always want to run the serial number on my shotgun...Negative ghost rider :fingerpt:

I used to hunt with an older gentleman that loved to mess with game wardens who try to act like big shots. We get stopped by "that" warden. Flat top haircut, aviator glasses, trousers bloused into his boots, demanding tone, the whole bit. He walks up and without saying hi or exchanging any pleasantries he says "Deer tags.". Bill tells him "all you need to see is in the back of the truck". Right now I'm really confused but Bill gives me a quick smile to let me know it's all good and then puts his game face back on. The warden steps to the back of the truck, walks back up to the window with a puzzled look on his face and says "There's no deer back there" to which my friend replies "No sh!t junior, and that is why I don't have to show you a fu@&ing deer tag. Now why exactly are you wasting my time?" :lol3: The look on that game wardens face was priceless. He didn't even bother asking to see Bills hunting license. He looked in the cab and saw that we had the bolts open on our rifles and sent us on our way.



:lol3: :lol3: I'm going to exercise this sometime in the field. My truck bed will be empty like it usually is, I'm sure. I know ONE game warden between the 3 counties I hunt, that has had any kind of professional mannerism. Decent mannered wardens are harder to come by out here in Cali. Stress of the job? Maybe... But a little kindness goes miles..
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby macdaddy » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:59 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:
wanapasaki wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:I have only had one issue like this. A city cop wanted to take a listol that I had concealed with the proper permit. Things got tense when I told him no. I told him I had the weapon and gave him my permit with my license when he walked up to my window. He said it was for his protection. I told him that keeping it was for mine. His Sergeant ended up stopping by and looked it all over and let me go on my way. I have never understood that interaction. The sime act of showing my permit and telling him about the weapon should have settled his fears.


You let the sergeant inspect the firearm?


Visually. He asked me to lift my shirt so he could verify it was a legal weapon. He did not ask to handle or take possession of the pistol. I felt that request was reasonable. He looked at the 1911 in the holster, said thanks for your cooperation and sent me on my way.


And therein lies the problem. Legal weapon? If one must ask a cop "Am I good to go, officer?," then the right becomes a privilege. I know that doing so avoids trouble. No one wants trouble - except, perhaps, the cops. They seem more than willing to instigate "trouble."

The "personal rights" amendments have been suppressed since at least the '30s. Phrases like "Can't fight city hall" & "Don't rock the boat" became very popular, especially in heavily Democrat neighbourhoods. My parents' generation lived by those maxims.
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby wanapasaki » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:27 pm

macdaddy wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:
wanapasaki wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:I have only had one issue like this. A city cop wanted to take a listol that I had concealed with the proper permit. Things got tense when I told him no. I told him I had the weapon and gave him my permit with my license when he walked up to my window. He said it was for his protection. I told him that keeping it was for mine. His Sergeant ended up stopping by and looked it all over and let me go on my way. I have never understood that interaction. The sime act of showing my permit and telling him about the weapon should have settled his fears.


You let the sergeant inspect the firearm?


Visually. He asked me to lift my shirt so he could verify it was a legal weapon. He did not ask to handle or take possession of the pistol. I felt that request was reasonable. He looked at the 1911 in the holster, said thanks for your cooperation and sent me on my way.


And therein lies the problem. Legal weapon? If one must ask a cop "Am I good to go, officer?," then the right becomes a privilege. I know that doing so avoids trouble. No one wants trouble - except, perhaps, the cops. They seem more than willing to instigate "trouble."

The "personal rights" amendments have been suppressed since at least the '30s. Phrases like "Can't fight city hall" & "Don't rock the boat" became very popular, especially in heavily Democrat neighbourhoods. My parents' generation lived by those maxims.


Its scary to think that there are so many ways that you can condemn yourself by a few simple words. I think we need a forum for constitutional rights and how to apply them in everyday situations :beer:
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Re: Enforcing law or violating 4th amendment?

Postby stackemhigh » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:25 pm

This guy in the video pretty much shows how to handle it. The police have the right to request to see your ID. That's about it. Beyond that, they can't detain or search you without a reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime. Just slow the situation down and don't let an officer bully you. Ask lots of questions. "Am I being detained? Am I under arrest? Do you suspect that I've committed a crime?" If they answer no to those questions, assert that you don't consent to any detainment or search. You can legally walk or drive away at the point.
Cops are taught to speed things up in order to overwhelm you. For example, a cop will often ask to search your trunk and just start walking toward the trunk, implying that you don't have the right to say no to the search. If they don't have a reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime, they can't search your person. If there's no probable cause, they can't search your vehicle.
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