How Chicago debt exploded

A forum not related to waterfowl for discussing the more controversial and hot topic issues in our world from immigration, politics, the war, etc..

Moderators: Smackaduck, MM

How Chicago debt exploded

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:01 pm

The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Image
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 56839
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana


Re: How Chicago debt exploded

Postby Andy W » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:16 am

Coming soon to a nation near you. :help:
Andy W
hunter
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:30 am
Location: KY

Re: How Chicago debt exploded

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:44 am

It's even worse than that. Chicago has sold off a lot of the revenue streams.

Running pensions like a ponzi scheme should be illegal and any union that sells a ponzi scheme or pension that is based on the future success of one company (the employer - lose job and pension when company goes belly up :thumbsup: ) gets what they deserve when they crash, however, it should be illegal to do either because clearly there are too many people that are too stupid to use common sense.

And selling off future revenue so you can spend it today should also be illegal. It should at least be as difficult as issuing bonds. They did this because selling more bonds probably would not have flown, but selling off assets does the same thing. Politicians spend the money today and future tax payers foot the bill. This is a true legal loophole that needs to be closed.

http://www.economist.com/node/17043320
Chicago began leasing its assets before the recession. In 2005 the city leased its Skyway toll road for 99 years for $1.83 billion. This was followed by a 99-year, $563m lease of parking garages in 2006 and a 75-year, $1.15 billion lease of parking meters in 2008. A plan to privatise the city's Midway airport collapsed in 2009, as the recession drained investors' interest. But Chicago hopes to revive the deal.


Mr Daley's use of the deal's proceeds was equally problematic. Chicago faced a huge budget gap; naturally, Mr Daley wanted to use some of the deal's cash to fill it. But by 2011 Chicago will have gobbled up nearly 75% of the proceeds from the 75-year lease.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16077
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: How Chicago debt exploded

Postby vincentpa » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:16 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:It's even worse than that. Chicago has sold off a lot of the revenue streams.

Running pensions like a ponzi scheme should be illegal and any union that sells a ponzi scheme or pension that is based on the future success of one company (the employer - lose job and pension when company goes belly up :thumbsup: ) gets what they deserve when they crash, however, it should be illegal to do either because clearly there are too many people that are too stupid to use common sense.

And selling off future revenue so you can spend it today should also be illegal. It should at least be as difficult as issuing bonds. They did this because selling more bonds probably would not have flown, but selling off assets does the same thing. Politicians spend the money today and future tax payers foot the bill. This is a true legal loophole that needs to be closed.

http://www.economist.com/node/17043320
Chicago began leasing its assets before the recession. In 2005 the city leased its Skyway toll road for 99 years for $1.83 billion. This was followed by a 99-year, $563m lease of parking garages in 2006 and a 75-year, $1.15 billion lease of parking meters in 2008. A plan to privatise the city's Midway airport collapsed in 2009, as the recession drained investors' interest. But Chicago hopes to revive the deal.


Mr Daley's use of the deal's proceeds was equally problematic. Chicago faced a huge budget gap; naturally, Mr Daley wanted to use some of the deal's cash to fill it. But by 2011 Chicago will have gobbled up nearly 75% of the proceeds from the 75-year lease.


Pittsburgh was and is actively trying to do the same with some of its assets. So far, the city government hasn't been able to pass it.
In a free society, it is not the obligation of the citizen to prove to the government that he is a good person. It is the obligation of the government to prove to the rest of the citizenry that the citizen is a bad person, with probable cause.
User avatar
vincentpa
hunter
 
Posts: 7715
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:50 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: How Chicago debt exploded

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:27 pm

I hope Pittsburgh does not succeed. There is so much wrong with it. The biggest being that the revenue stream is gone and the money will be wasted.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16077
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: How Chicago debt exploded

Postby vincentpa » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:48 pm

Right now, Pittsburgh is in what amounts to state receivership. Finances are so bad from two big factors among many. The first is the city has shrunk in population and with the shrinking population came shrinking tax receipts. The city is rebounding a little with the growth of the high tech and medical industries but it has lost a lot. The second big reason is the over promising of benefits, specifically a pension system that is bankrupting the city. The state stepped in and took for all intents and purposes took control. The Commonwealth of PA must approve every budget until Pittsburgh's ship is righted. Pittsburgh has been making headway. They've had some schemes either not permitted by the state or not passed by city council before it ever made it to the state. The last mayor, Boy Luke, wanted to privatize all of the parking garages and parking meters in the city. That almost went through. People banded to together across communities with the help of business to squash it. Not even two years later, the city has installed new street parking collection machines that take credit cards that have tripled parking income. People are just more willing to use the machines instead of the old style meters. What a wonder, huh!
In a free society, it is not the obligation of the citizen to prove to the government that he is a good person. It is the obligation of the government to prove to the rest of the citizenry that the citizen is a bad person, with probable cause.
User avatar
vincentpa
hunter
 
Posts: 7715
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:50 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: How Chicago debt exploded

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:10 pm

vincentpa wrote:ot even two years later, the city has installed new street parking collection machines that take credit cards that have tripled parking income. People are just more willing to use the machines instead of the old style meters. What a wonder, huh!

Actually, I doubt that is the biggest reason.

Old meter. You are the first person of the day to pull into the spot. How long will you need to park? Image

So you put in an hour and get done in a half hour.

The second person shows up and there is still a half hour on the meter, so maybe he adds a little or maybe if he knows he will only be a few minutes, he adds nothing and thanks the guy that paid before.

And at the end of the day, that spot can only have charged say 10 hours.

Now with the new system.

First guy pays an hour and uses half.

Second guy pays a half hour and uses 10 minutes.

Third guy over pays.

And so on.

For a busy spot with short stays, they may charge 20 or more hours for a meter that operates 10 hours. They are selling the same time repeatedly now with the new system. I'll bet it's at least double for the high use areas. Not a factor of 3, but a big part of it. Maybe all of it is people overpay a lot more when it's not coins and just a couple more clicks on a key pad.

It pisses me off every time. I have no problem over paying knowing that the next guy will get the benefit just like sometimes I get the benefit from someone else over paying. It all evens out. However with the new meters, all your overpay goes to the government and not to your fellow citizens and it never evens out and your average parking cost has gone up a lot even without a rate change.

On the, I still can't believe it happened. I have gotten 2 parking tickets in Chicago. Both were bogus tickets. The first, the meter was broke and I had no time to find one that wasn't. The second was simple not a metered area. It's not always clear what is metered with these new credit card meters. And the ticket came back as if I was parked on a section of Lake Shore Drive that is not possible to park on :huh: However, given it was the only time I was in Chicago that month, I knew where I had been parked. It was also a "photo" ticket, which means, I got it in the mail and had no idea that I had gotten a ticket at all until I got it in the mail a month or so later and all the ticket showed was my license plate which could have just as easily been taken in my driveway. If I had gone into the city multiple times, I would have had no clue where I was when they gave me the ticket.

I appealed both tickets in writing and here's the part I can't believe, I won both appeals :eek:

I also got a parking ticket in Georgia because I had Yankee tags on my truck. Dozens of cars parked in a line along the side of the road. Only the one from PA and NY were parked illegally :lol3:
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16077
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL


Return to Controversial Issues Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests