Christianity and the Death Penalty

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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby boney fingers » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:28 pm

Dingbatter 2 wrote:
boney fingers wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:In it's pure form, the death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent but a punishment. You murder someone, you get murdered back. The problem is that the punishment is not swift so there really is no punishment. Most death row inmates may as well have life imprisonment.

Christians have been killing each other and everyone else since the beginning of their religion, as have most other religions. We go to war and pray for our troops to kill the other guy, his family, friends, children, every living thing associated with him because he is "evil". Christians think Muslims are evil, Muslims think Christians are evil. Protestants think Catholics are evil, Catholics think Protestants are evil. Sunni's think Shiites are evil while Shiites think Sunni's are evil. The same old story. Religion by and large is rooted in ignorance, fear, and death. All religious faiths have a closet full of bloody skeletons. The death penalty is one.

I try to keep things simple. To me there are human beings and there are Homo sapiens. To be a human being is not a right but a privilege. You must live and work in the society that you are a member of, and abide by the customs of that society to be a human being. Once you step across that line, and you slaughter innocents then you are no longer a human being, but a Homo sapien , a savage, an animal, and you should be treated like one. Not abused or tortured, but dealt with just like we would deal with any animal. Either put them down or put them in a cage. As for death row and the death penalty, I really doubt there are many in there that had a spotless record before they killed someone. Death row by and large is full of Homo sapiens and not human beings.



The irony of it all, is that without religion, then there is no right or wrong. Without a higher power, the concept of right and wrong is meaningless.


Religion has been around since we left the cave and we still can't figure out what is right or wrong. I think it has gotten worse. Right now two of the worlds greatest religions are facing off and getting ready for a war that most likely will send us back to the cave, that is if we are lucky to have a cave to go back too. This may be shaping up to be a "death penalty" on steriods!
:help:


The difference is religious people feel there is a consequence if they are incorrect about right and wrong; the non religious don't have that over them. This is the reason humanity as a whole has been lifted by religion, Christianity in particular.
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby beretta24 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:58 pm

assateague wrote:Here we go again.

:lol3: I haven't been participating in this thread, but had the same thought. Instant rabbit hole.
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby cartervj » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:35 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
assateague wrote:But what about the point Spinner raised- if you compare the number of innocent people executed by the state with the number of innocent people executed by criminals the state did NOT execute, I suspect the numbers would be mind-numbingly skewed.

And I thought liberals were all about the "greater good"? I mean, who cares if 10 million lose their health insurance so 11 million others can get it?

Let's not pretend conservatives don't believe in the greater good…………. a major component of this argument is that conservatives are willing to accept a number of wrongful executions for the "good" of the cause.

The ONLY way to ensure that someone does not wrongfully die in jail is for no one to go to jail. It's not a greater good argument.
Well of course it's a "greater good" argument….. In fact, it's the very definition of a "greater good" argument! If you're willing to accept that you will wrongly execute a lesser number of "good guys" because the effect of executing a greater number of "bad guys" is something you deem good for society at large, well, you just might be a "Greater Good" believer. And nothing to be ashamed of, I might add



I really don't think so, then again one could compare the angst against the rich by liberals as to stealing from them to give to folks that are less fortunate. Even those that could not give a damn about ever working and living off others getting their fair share.
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby cartervj » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:48 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
cartervj wrote:struggling with the word accident

and if you really look, a drunk driver killing someone usually gets MORE time than one that meant to kill someone

I've seen that, carter. It's all about politics for a DA I guess. What do you tell the cop? "Well, yes, I may have been drunk, but I planned to run her over!"

The sticky part about drunk driving is that yes, you are obviously putting your own and other's lives in danger by doing so. And when sober you would never consider doing such a thing. But after imbibing a "mind-altering drug", your mind....is.....altered. And the more altered you are the more dangerous and the less rational you are. I'm not justifying it in the least, or even minimalizing it....it's just an odd set of circumstances. Perhaps some day we'll have vehicle technology, not easily gotten around like the breath gizmo, that makes them impossible to start if impaired. Be fine with me. Save me a lot on gas, too! Just kidding!!!



I could dig up numerous cases against drunk drivers that did not cause the accident. I know 1 here locally, a guy ran a stop sign onto a busy highway. The fellow that hit him was legally drunk, .12. I'd guess an irony posting this on this thread, would be that the guy that ran the stop sign was coming from Church.

Several cases that I know of personally where the murder got LESS time than that fellow that ran over someone running a stop sign. The difference to me would be that those that meaningfully killed someone keep coming up for parole every couple of years.
The repetitive agony for the victims family, is that fair?

Guess what, one guy feels really bad about a situation he did not intend for. The other where the killer meant to kill someone, took the tire iron into the home. He was gonna kill him cause they knew each other. The victim had on numerous occasions given the Killer things he'd asked for saying he was in need. He was trying to do the right thing and it got him killed eventually. The killer only feels sorry for himself. Guess what, psychopaths have NO Empathy, never have, never will. Ya can't even teach it to them.
I could mention more but pretty sure you see where I'm coming from.

That's the thing about liberalism, thinking that talking about it will make folks will do the right thing. Comphrending that for a certain portion of the population that will never happen is liberals' downfall.

The difference is, conservatives take up for the victim and exacting punishment, liberals take up for the assailant, wanting to somehow fix them.
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:58 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:In it's pure form, the death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent but a punishment.......


If it weren't for fear of prison or death, I can think of a few instances in my life where I would've offed somebody.

Really, cd? I don't think I can say the same. Not trying to sound superior, just never wanted anyone dead that much. A righteously good beating for some, perhaps with party favors like saps or rolls of quarters or a couple of cans of beer in a good sock? Oh yeah, I'd have been all on board a few times! Not that I've done it, but I wouldn't have hesitated given the green light!
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:09 pm

SpinnerMan wrote: Conservatives simply acknowledge and accept reality. Liberals, well, not so much. They are Utopians.



C'mon Spinner, cut the crap. This is an over-used and far too accepted homily of the right. Liberals understand reality just as well as conservatives. They are simply not as willing to accept a poor situation as an unchangeable status quo and try to come up with improvements. Were you on a sports team with a less than impressive record, would you want a coach that says "Well, I guess we're simply not as good as the other teams, but keep plugging away.", or a coach that says "We haven't done well in what we've been doing, so let's try this. It may work, it may not. If it doesn't we'll try something else"? I'd rather go down in flames making changes trying to better myself than rust away sticking to my guns.
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:10 pm

boney fingers wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:In it's pure form, the death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent but a punishment. You murder someone, you get murdered back. The problem is that the punishment is not swift so there really is no punishment. Most death row inmates may as well have life imprisonment.

Christians have been killing each other and everyone else since the beginning of their religion, as have most other religions. We go to war and pray for our troops to kill the other guy, his family, friends, children, every living thing associated with him because he is "evil". Christians think Muslims are evil, Muslims think Christians are evil. Protestants think Catholics are evil, Catholics think Protestants are evil. Sunni's think Shiites are evil while Shiites think Sunni's are evil. The same old story. Religion by and large is rooted in ignorance, fear, and death. All religious faiths have a closet full of bloody skeletons. The death penalty is one.

I try to keep things simple. To me there are human beings and there are Homo sapiens. To be a human being is not a right but a privilege. You must live and work in the society that you are a member of, and abide by the customs of that society to be a human being. Once you step across that line, and you slaughter innocents then you are no longer a human being, but a Homo sapien , a savage, an animal, and you should be treated like one. Not abused or tortured, but dealt with just like we would deal with any animal. Either put them down or put them in a cage. As for death row and the death penalty, I really doubt there are many in there that had a spotless record before they killed someone. Death row by and large is full of Homo sapiens and not human beings.



The irony of it all, is that without religion, then there is no right or wrong. Without a higher power, the concept of right and wrong is meaningless.

Preposterous
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:17 pm

WTN10 wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:In it's pure form, the death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent but a punishment. You murder someone, you get murdered back. The problem is that the punishment is not swift so there really is no punishment. Most death row inmates may as well have life imprisonment.

Christians have been killing each other and everyone else since the beginning of their religion, as have most other religions. We go to war and pray for our troops to kill the other guy, his family, friends, children, every living thing associated with him because he is "evil". Christians think Muslims are evil, Muslims think Christians are evil. Protestants think Catholics are evil, Catholics think Protestants are evil. Sunni's think Shiites are evil while Shiites think Sunni's are evil. The same old story. Religion by and large is rooted in ignorance, fear, and death. All religious faiths have a closet full of bloody skeletons. The death penalty is one.

I try to keep things simple. To me there are human beings and there are Homo sapiens. To be a human being is not a right but a privilege. You must live and work in the society that you are a member of, and abide by the customs of that society to be a human being. Once you step across that line, and you slaughter innocents then you are no longer a human being, but a Homo sapien , a savage, an animal, and you should be treated like one. Not abused or tortured, but dealt with just like we would deal with any animal. Either put them down or put them in a cage. As for death row and the death penalty, I really doubt there are many in there that had a spotless record before they killed someone. Death row by and large is full of Homo sapiens and not human beings.


Pretty much the most ignorant diatribe against religion one could concoct. It is as overly simplistic, as it is uninformed. We are all now dumber for having heard it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Whether I agree or disagree with you is irrelevant. Calling something "ignorant" etc is easy. Provide a better argument than that, counselor, or your condemnation is irrelevant and boorish. As far as "We are all now dumber for having heard it", personally, I don't believe I've ever read or heard anything that made me "dumber", but the fact that it happens to you may explain a lot.
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:20 pm

assateague wrote:Here we go again.

:lol3: You're right, AT, but it is a fascinating philosophical question!
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:35 pm

boney fingers wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:
boney fingers wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:In it's pure form, the death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent but a punishment. You murder someone, you get murdered back. The problem is that the punishment is not swift so there really is no punishment. Most death row inmates may as well have life imprisonment.

Christians have been killing each other and everyone else since the beginning of their religion, as have most other religions. We go to war and pray for our troops to kill the other guy, his family, friends, children, every living thing associated with him because he is "evil". Christians think Muslims are evil, Muslims think Christians are evil. Protestants think Catholics are evil, Catholics think Protestants are evil. Sunni's think Shiites are evil while Shiites think Sunni's are evil. The same old story. Religion by and large is rooted in ignorance, fear, and death. All religious faiths have a closet full of bloody skeletons. The death penalty is one.

I try to keep things simple. To me there are human beings and there are Homo sapiens. To be a human being is not a right but a privilege. You must live and work in the society that you are a member of, and abide by the customs of that society to be a human being. Once you step across that line, and you slaughter innocents then you are no longer a human being, but a Homo sapien , a savage, an animal, and you should be treated like one. Not abused or tortured, but dealt with just like we would deal with any animal. Either put them down or put them in a cage. As for death row and the death penalty, I really doubt there are many in there that had a spotless record before they killed someone. Death row by and large is full of Homo sapiens and not human beings.



The irony of it all, is that without religion, then there is no right or wrong. Without a higher power, the concept of right and wrong is meaningless.


Religion has been around since we left the cave and we still can't figure out what is right or wrong. I think it has gotten worse. Right now two of the worlds greatest religions are facing off and getting ready for a war that most likely will send us back to the cave, that is if we are lucky to have a cave to go back too. This may be shaping up to be a "death penalty" on steriods!
:help:


The difference is religious people feel there is a consequence if they are incorrect about right and wrong; the non religious don't have that over them. This is the reason humanity as a whole has been lifted by religion, Christianity in particular.

"Karma" addresses that concept much more directly than Christianity. You can do anything in Christianity as long as you repent later.
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:40 pm

beretta24 wrote:
assateague wrote:Here we go again.

:lol3: I haven't been participating in this thread, but had the same thought. Instant rabbit hole.

Of course that's true, beretta, but as long as civility is maintained it is an endlessly fascinating subject that applies to each and every one of our most inner thoughts and philosophies. Will agreement ever be reached? Of course not. That's why this is the CI forum! :lol3: It causes us, I hope, to think about our preconceptions and inherited positions. I don't think that's frivolous or a bad thing.
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby boney fingers » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:46 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
boney fingers wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:
boney fingers wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:In it's pure form, the death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent but a punishment. You murder someone, you get murdered back. The problem is that the punishment is not swift so there really is no punishment. Most death row inmates may as well have life imprisonment.

Christians have been killing each other and everyone else since the beginning of their religion, as have most other religions. We go to war and pray for our troops to kill the other guy, his family, friends, children, every living thing associated with him because he is "evil". Christians think Muslims are evil, Muslims think Christians are evil. Protestants think Catholics are evil, Catholics think Protestants are evil. Sunni's think Shiites are evil while Shiites think Sunni's are evil. The same old story. Religion by and large is rooted in ignorance, fear, and death. All religious faiths have a closet full of bloody skeletons. The death penalty is one.

I try to keep things simple. To me there are human beings and there are Homo sapiens. To be a human being is not a right but a privilege. You must live and work in the society that you are a member of, and abide by the customs of that society to be a human being. Once you step across that line, and you slaughter innocents then you are no longer a human being, but a Homo sapien , a savage, an animal, and you should be treated like one. Not abused or tortured, but dealt with just like we would deal with any animal. Either put them down or put them in a cage. As for death row and the death penalty, I really doubt there are many in there that had a spotless record before they killed someone. Death row by and large is full of Homo sapiens and not human beings.



The irony of it all, is that without religion, then there is no right or wrong. Without a higher power, the concept of right and wrong is meaningless.


Religion has been around since we left the cave and we still can't figure out what is right or wrong. I think it has gotten worse. Right now two of the worlds greatest religions are facing off and getting ready for a war that most likely will send us back to the cave, that is if we are lucky to have a cave to go back too. This may be shaping up to be a "death penalty" on steriods!
:help:


The difference is religious people feel there is a consequence if they are incorrect about right and wrong; the non religious don't have that over them. This is the reason humanity as a whole has been lifted by religion, Christianity in particular.

"Karma" addresses that concept much more directly than Christianity. You can do anything in Christianity as long as you repent later.


With out a higher power, karma is just dumb luck if it happens. The concept of Christianity is that we "all" are sinners and therefore must "all' repent later.
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:49 pm

cartervj wrote: The difference is, conservatives take up for the victim and exacting punishment, liberals take up for the assailant, wanting to somehow fix them.

Sorry carter, far too over-simplistic. To simply and succinctly make my point, I would paraphrase your statement as "conservatives want to exact punishment on wrong-doers until time immemorial. Liberals want to find the source of wrong-doing in humanity and attempt to correct it."
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:51 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
cartervj wrote: The difference is, conservatives take up for the victim and exacting punishment, liberals take up for the assailant, wanting to somehow fix them.

Sorry carter, far too over-simplistic. To simply and succinctly make my point, I would paraphrase your statement as "conservatives want to exact punishment on wrong-doers until time immemorial. Liberals want to find the source of wrong-doing in humanity and attempt to correct it."

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: i.e. UTOPIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:01 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
cartervj wrote: The difference is, conservatives take up for the victim and exacting punishment, liberals take up for the assailant, wanting to somehow fix them.

Sorry carter, far too over-simplistic. To simply and succinctly make my point, I would paraphrase your statement as "conservatives want to exact punishment on wrong-doers until time immemorial. Liberals want to find the source of wrong-doing in humanity and attempt to correct it."

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: i.e. UTOPIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Sorry, Inda. Completely inane response. But the humor you see in your inanity is slightly amusing. :thumbsup:
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby boney fingers » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:01 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
boney fingers wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:In it's pure form, the death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent but a punishment. You murder someone, you get murdered back. The problem is that the punishment is not swift so there really is no punishment. Most death row inmates may as well have life imprisonment.

Christians have been killing each other and everyone else since the beginning of their religion, as have most other religions. We go to war and pray for our troops to kill the other guy, his family, friends, children, every living thing associated with him because he is "evil". Christians think Muslims are evil, Muslims think Christians are evil. Protestants think Catholics are evil, Catholics think Protestants are evil. Sunni's think Shiites are evil while Shiites think Sunni's are evil. The same old story. Religion by and large is rooted in ignorance, fear, and death. All religious faiths have a closet full of bloody skeletons. The death penalty is one.

I try to keep things simple. To me there are human beings and there are Homo sapiens. To be a human being is not a right but a privilege. You must live and work in the society that you are a member of, and abide by the customs of that society to be a human being. Once you step across that line, and you slaughter innocents then you are no longer a human being, but a Homo sapien , a savage, an animal, and you should be treated like one. Not abused or tortured, but dealt with just like we would deal with any animal. Either put them down or put them in a cage. As for death row and the death penalty, I really doubt there are many in there that had a spotless record before they killed someone. Death row by and large is full of Homo sapiens and not human beings.



The irony of it all, is that without religion, then there is no right or wrong. Without a higher power, the concept of right and wrong is meaningless.

Preposterous


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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:04 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
cartervj wrote: The difference is, conservatives take up for the victim and exacting punishment, liberals take up for the assailant, wanting to somehow fix them.

Sorry carter, far too over-simplistic. To simply and succinctly make my point, I would paraphrase your statement as "conservatives want to exact punishment on wrong-doers until time immemorial. Liberals want to find the source of wrong-doing in humanity and attempt to correct it."

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: i.e. UTOPIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Sorry, Inda. Completely inane response. But the humor you see in your inanity is slightly amusing. :thumbsup:

So you do not see the Absurdity in attempting, "finding the source of wrong-doing in humanity"? :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: that's even funnier!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:19 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
cartervj wrote: The difference is, conservatives take up for the victim and exacting punishment, liberals take up for the assailant, wanting to somehow fix them.

Sorry carter, far too over-simplistic. To simply and succinctly make my point, I would paraphrase your statement as "conservatives want to exact punishment on wrong-doers until time immemorial. Liberals want to find the source of wrong-doing in humanity and attempt to correct it."

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: i.e. UTOPIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Sorry, Inda. Completely inane response. But the humor you see in your inanity is slightly amusing. :thumbsup:

So you do not see the Absurdity in attempting, "finding the source of wrong-doing in humanity"? :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: that's even funnier!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

I'd be careful if the "American Pickers" ever show up at your place, Inda. They just love antique items that show the naivete of a bygone era. I'd hate to one day see you sitting on a shelf in Nashville, of all God-forsaken places! :lol3: By the way....have you ever heard the term genomes, and/or considered the potential ramifications of a further understanding of them? There's a lot already out there you have apparently missed out on that could be HUGELY beneficial in determining sociopathic behavior. But then, that kind of stuff is for liberals. Conservatives..............?
Indaswamp wrote: "Kill 'em"
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:24 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
cartervj wrote: The difference is, conservatives take up for the victim and exacting punishment, liberals take up for the assailant, wanting to somehow fix them.

Sorry carter, far too over-simplistic. To simply and succinctly make my point, I would paraphrase your statement as "conservatives want to exact punishment on wrong-doers until time immemorial. Liberals want to find the source of wrong-doing in humanity and attempt to correct it."

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: i.e. UTOPIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Sorry, Inda. Completely inane response. But the humor you see in your inanity is slightly amusing. :thumbsup:

So you do not see the Absurdity in attempting, "finding the source of wrong-doing in humanity"? :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: that's even funnier!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Gimme a break…. the Christian right is OBSESSED with perfecting the proclivities of mankind.They just have to project the desire onto a deity figure in order to get on board. No difference WHATSOEVER!!
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:33 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
cartervj wrote: The difference is, conservatives take up for the victim and exacting punishment, liberals take up for the assailant, wanting to somehow fix them.

Sorry carter, far too over-simplistic. To simply and succinctly make my point, I would paraphrase your statement as "conservatives want to exact punishment on wrong-doers until time immemorial. Liberals want to find the source of wrong-doing in humanity and attempt to correct it."

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: i.e. UTOPIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Sorry, Inda. Completely inane response. But the humor you see in your inanity is slightly amusing. :thumbsup:

So you do not see the Absurdity in attempting, "finding the source of wrong-doing in humanity"? :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: that's even funnier!!! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Gimme a break…. the Christian right is OBSESSED with perfecting the proclivities of mankind.They just have to project the desire onto a deity figure in order to get on board. No difference WHATSOEVER!!

Yeah know, BDD2. I truly believe, all due respect intended, that we went over their heads a LONG time ago in this conversation. We're now attempting to get sheep to understand calculus. We'd all be more content to toss a couple of flakes of alfafa into the bin and retire to our offices for a Johnnie Walker black with two ice cubes and a suggestion of a splash of water. :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :beer:
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:36 pm

boney fingers wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
boney fingers wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:In it's pure form, the death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent but a punishment. You murder someone, you get murdered back. The problem is that the punishment is not swift so there really is no punishment. Most death row inmates may as well have life imprisonment.

Christians have been killing each other and everyone else since the beginning of their religion, as have most other religions. We go to war and pray for our troops to kill the other guy, his family, friends, children, every living thing associated with him because he is "evil". Christians think Muslims are evil, Muslims think Christians are evil. Protestants think Catholics are evil, Catholics think Protestants are evil. Sunni's think Shiites are evil while Shiites think Sunni's are evil. The same old story. Religion by and large is rooted in ignorance, fear, and death. All religious faiths have a closet full of bloody skeletons. The death penalty is one.

I try to keep things simple. To me there are human beings and there are Homo sapiens. To be a human being is not a right but a privilege. You must live and work in the society that you are a member of, and abide by the customs of that society to be a human being. Once you step across that line, and you slaughter innocents then you are no longer a human being, but a Homo sapien , a savage, an animal, and you should be treated like one. Not abused or tortured, but dealt with just like we would deal with any animal. Either put them down or put them in a cage. As for death row and the death penalty, I really doubt there are many in there that had a spotless record before they killed someone. Death row by and large is full of Homo sapiens and not human beings.



The irony of it all, is that without religion, then there is no right or wrong. Without a higher power, the concept of right and wrong is meaningless.

Preposterous


Can an animal do something wrong? Without a supreme deity, humans are no more than animals and therefore can be held to no higher standard than they are.

An animal can do something that is counterproductive to the needs of its fellow animals, and its fellow animals will damned well let him know it, won't they? We aren't any different, and a hen mallard willing to sacrifice herself for the survival of her clutch is nothing less than the evolutionary glimmer of nascent morality. Perhaps YOU would devolve into Charles Manson in the absence of an overarching notion of divine authority, but don't presume that the rest of us are similarly debauched
"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Walt Kelly, via Slow's avatar. Look it up
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:19 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote: Perhaps YOU would devolve into Charles Manson in the absence of an overarching notion of divine authority, but don't presume that the rest of us are similarly debauched

Charles Manson. I don't even know where to start. Maybe it's best to say he was an "interesting and unique" character and leave it at that. There were, however, a few pretty well known names that considered him a hugely talented musician and lyricist. Neil Young and Brian Wilson come to mind. He strikes me as the Hannibal Lecter of the 60s. Intensely intelligent, with a missing component in his makeup. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say that he was the "Colonel Walter E. Kurtz" of the hippie movement. Like the, contemporaneous, Vietnam War, he was so, so much deeper and more complex than taken at first impression, with that same eerie sense of "some things are so right, but the totality is skewed so intricately yet gruesomely that we can't get our heads around it to understand exactly where the Y in the road occurred ".
Whew! If someone understands that, please explain it to me! :lol3:
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:24 pm

I just thought about it, BDD2. Sorry for taking the conversation into such nebulous territory. I always prided myself on not being capable of maintaining a train of thought for more than a few seconds! :lol3: One more reference just to bug my detractors.....Charlie Watts always said of Ronnie Wood that he's a lovable guy with the attention span of a gnat! :lol3:
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:08 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote: Perhaps YOU would devolve into Charles Manson in the absence of an overarching notion of divine authority, but don't presume that the rest of us are similarly debauched

You're exactly right, BDD2. The point the religious always makes is that, were it not for the guidance of the Bible, they would be the Jeffrey Dahmers of DHC. If that's the case perhaps we would rid ourselves of the propensity for violence by simply executing all with religious ties. They are obviously not in control of themselves! Hmmmmmmmm. Let's put it up for a vote! :thumbsup:
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Re: Christianity and the Death Penalty

Postby boney fingers » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:00 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
boney fingers wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
boney fingers wrote:
Dingbatter 2 wrote:In it's pure form, the death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent but a punishment. You murder someone, you get murdered back. The problem is that the punishment is not swift so there really is no punishment. Most death row inmates may as well have life imprisonment.

Christians have been killing each other and everyone else since the beginning of their religion, as have most other religions. We go to war and pray for our troops to kill the other guy, his family, friends, children, every living thing associated with him because he is "evil". Christians think Muslims are evil, Muslims think Christians are evil. Protestants think Catholics are evil, Catholics think Protestants are evil. Sunni's think Shiites are evil while Shiites think Sunni's are evil. The same old story. Religion by and large is rooted in ignorance, fear, and death. All religious faiths have a closet full of bloody skeletons. The death penalty is one.

I try to keep things simple. To me there are human beings and there are Homo sapiens. To be a human being is not a right but a privilege. You must live and work in the society that you are a member of, and abide by the customs of that society to be a human being. Once you step across that line, and you slaughter innocents then you are no longer a human being, but a Homo sapien , a savage, an animal, and you should be treated like one. Not abused or tortured, but dealt with just like we would deal with any animal. Either put them down or put them in a cage. As for death row and the death penalty, I really doubt there are many in there that had a spotless record before they killed someone. Death row by and large is full of Homo sapiens and not human beings.



The irony of it all, is that without religion, then there is no right or wrong. Without a higher power, the concept of right and wrong is meaningless.

Preposterous


Can an animal do something wrong? Without a supreme deity, humans are no more than animals and therefore can be held to no higher standard than they are.

An animal can do something that is counterproductive to the needs of its fellow animals, and its fellow animals will damned well let him know it, won't they? We aren't any different, and a hen mallard willing to sacrifice herself for the survival of her clutch is nothing less than the evolutionary glimmer of nascent morality. Perhaps YOU would devolve into Charles Manson in the absence of an overarching notion of divine authority, but don't presume that the rest of us are similarly debauched



Of course animals can do things that are counterproductive, but are they doing right and wrong?
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