Toys For Tots do you give???

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Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby charlie beard » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:08 pm

Back here each year they have a drive for Toys For Tots.
My wife and I donate only for the KIDS sake.

These kids have dead beat parents for the most part or there parents in most cases Moms have so many kids they can't afford to buy for all.

Every August when it gets hot the local News ask for people to donate new fans for the poor and elderly.
What the hell did they do with the fan they received last year?
You can go to a pawn shop in Nov. and buy these fans for $5.00 each.
It appears I am missing something. :huh:
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby ScaupHunter » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:22 pm

The only places I give are at church and The Salvation Army. I pay to feed and cloth those kids every year. I am not buying them presents on top of that.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby cartervj » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:10 pm

We pick several from the Angel tree where my wife works. We use what we'd spend on each other and give to the kids, they truly are in need rarely receive toys.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby Rat Creek » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:59 pm

I will readily admit I struggle with the idea of funding the children of deadbeats because it gives the deadbeats a pass. I want to help the kids, and my wife and I do. But seriously, who cannot find enough work or save a little bit of money to provide their kids some gifts for Christmas?

If you look at all the bums who are on public assistance of various types, who could and should be working their way through life, it is startling. I have no issue with helping the kids of these bums, but I do fear I am also perpetuating the situation as the hand-out becomes the norm.

Though the ant-God leftists will think it is foolish to look to the bible for guidance, I am not an anti-God leftists, so there are verses that give guidance. One such verse is:

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. Ezekiel 18:20


So with that in mind, I cannot blame the kids for their bum parents. I will try to keep providing for the innocent who unfortunately got a really bad draw in parents and parent figures.

And to look a bit deeper, many of societies leeches have had their souls stolen from them by the welfare hustlers who have passed laws and have convinced them that living off of others is not something for which to be embarrassed, thus they should not try to improve their lot in life, but just push D buttons when they go into the booth.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:16 pm

Rat Creek wrote:I will readily admit I struggle with the idea of funding the children of deadbeats because it gives the deadbeats a pass. I want to help the kids, and my wife and I do. But seriously, who cannot find enough work or save a little bit of money to provide their kids some gifts for Christmas?

My niece's mother is one of these deadbeats. She hits all the charities with her single mom sob story. One food pantry she told them she had 10 children and these morons believed her. She has 3, but only custody of one. One year she got 3 brand new coats for my niece. Coats for poor children are a popular thing back where I'm from. She hit them all. BTW, my brother had already bought my niece a new coat for the winter, which is probably why she got her 3 to one up him.

With the huge amount of money the truly needed can get in welfare. I really do not believe that these really help and probably 90% of it is pure waste going to thieves that are getting this charity via fraud.

I just don't think most of these charities care how much good they do, but only how good they make the people feel about themselves for doing it.

I'll help a person in many ways. Where we are today, I am not giving anybody I do not know things. I believe the odds are high that it is not going to help and probably perpetuate harm.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby beretta24 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:52 pm

I'll buy for kids, much in line with what Rick posted. If you're an able bodied adult looking to me for a gift you'd better get in line behind the kids.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:26 am

Rat Creek wrote:
The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. Ezekiel 18:20


So with that in mind, I cannot blame the kids for their bum parents.
You seriously required scriptural guidance to arrive at such a conclusion? That's a little scary, but I guess it's right in line with the thinking that insists there can be no morality without God.
And isn't Toys for Tots run by the US Marine Corps? Sweet Jesus, you guys just won't trust ANYBODY, will you?
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:31 am

Just in the interests of full disclosure, ALL the donations I make, which varies considerably from year to year, are done on the street, in person. That way I know exactly where it's going, and I get a rough idea (no promises) as to how effective a leg up it might be. I've never given to Toys for Tots
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:51 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:And isn't Toys for Tots run by the US Marine Corps? Sweet Jesus, you guys just won't trust ANYBODY, will you?

It's not trust. It's the destruction that I see on the ground where I come from. It is a very economically disadvantaged part of the country. Parents that in the past had vastly less still found a way to get Christmas presents for their children and their children appreciated them because of the what they knew it cost their parents to get them and learned how to be a good parent and how much you sacrifice for your children. My niece also knows the sacrifice that her mother made to get the handouts and is learning a completely different lesson.

My wife's mom and dad grew up far poorer than just about any American in today. Every Christmas my mother-in-law tells about the Christmas that their presents got stolen out of the car and how the family had no more money to replace them. And why do you think they did not want to grow up like this? :huh: It sucked. Today, it does not suck to live like these people do and they certainly don't teach their kids to do better than mom and dad and be proud of them when they do.

You just cannot comprehend the level of dysfunction. These people literally feel no obligation to do what it takes to get kids what they need and a few little gifts. It's not for lack of money because people who had wildly less in the past were able to do it because they knew that is what decent people did.

These programs, regardless of who runs them do far more harm than good. Sure they allow people to feel good about themselves and bring the joy of self righteousness to so many lives, but they reinforce the destruction that is occurring among the people they foolishly think they are helping.

Why do you think things are getting worse in 21st century America in these communities? It's not racism where I am from because they white. It's not the urban problem. These are small towns. It's not new immigrants, or any of that. It is because the New Deal and the Great Society and related social policy are a raw deal and destroy society for the people with a low IQ and other disadvantages by rewarding bad behavior far beyond the benefits these people reap from good behavior.

Very simple. I'm not giving things to people that I do not know. How on earth would I know if it was a good thing or a bad thing to give it to the individual that got it? These programs run on a simple premise: ignorance is bliss.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby vincentpa » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:56 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:Just in the interests of full disclosure, ALL the donations I make, which varies considerably from year to year, are done on the street, in person. That way I know exactly where it's going, and I get a rough idea (no promises) as to how effective a leg up it might be. I've never given to Toys for Tots



It's going right to the liquor store. :thumbsup:
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:45 am

vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Just in the interests of full disclosure, ALL the donations I make, which varies considerably from year to year, are done on the street, in person. That way I know exactly where it's going, and I get a rough idea (no promises) as to how effective a leg up it might be. I've never given to Toys for Tots



It's going right to the liquor store. :thumbsup:

Some, no doubt, but that's not always the end of the world……..in fact one Christmas Eve I gave a fifth of Jack Daniels to the dwarf alcoholic with whom I'd ridden into Seattle twenty years earlier. I picked him up hitchhiking in Eastern Washington and bought him lunch along the way……..he shared his cheap :eek: wine with me and we had a pretty good time bullshitting the miles away. Anyway, after that I'd see him on the street every now and then, and he never did kick the booze, so when I spotted him that Christmas Eve, I figured screw it, and just bought him what had to have been the best Christmas present of his life, if I could believe the hard luck stories. And I think sometimes charity works pretty well that way…..ditch the judgment for a moment, and just give something that lets a guy feel like he's in the lap of actual luxury, if only for a single night of boozing it up.
I haven't seen Shorty (he actually called himself that) in years. Probably died……..
If I have the time I'll walk someone into a McDonalds or something and buy them a meal. That's pretty bombproof, and though it's time consuming, it has the added advantage of actually getting to hear their story. (Yeah, they're mostly bullshit….but if you've got a good ear and a better filter, you can start to get the picture)
Charity needs to be personal if it's gonna work for both sides……... and I think there's lots of ways to accomplish that
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby wanapasaki » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:48 am

For Christmas, imma get some of you guys a chisel so you can get a little ice off that heart lol. I try to get a gift every year for a child in need. Not the kids fault for a dead beet parent.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:57 am

SpinnerMan wrote:You just cannot comprehend the level of dysfunction.
Yes I can……those are the people in my nightmare scenario who'd be selling their eyes and kidneys for cheap in your dream scenario, and they'd do it no matter the going rate :eek: :eek:
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby go get the bird » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:12 am

We (my wife and I) generally don't give to charities. Rather, we find people directly and help them. Last night, my wife approached me with a story of one of her coworkers. From what I was told, he is a younger guy, maybe 19 or 20. He recently lost his mother, who was the last bit of family he had. Recently, his car died on him, and he is unable to afford to fix it. He has been walking to work, in -25 degree weather, in nothing more than a light spring jacket because he can't afford to buy a new coat. Some of my wife's other coworkers came together and got him some winter clothing; a proper coat, long johns, gloves and a hat. Because I work in an automotive shop, my wife asked if I would be willing to look at his vehicle and figure out what it would take to get running. I plan on asking another gentleman at the shop if he would be willing to help as well, simply because he knows more than I do.

Earlier this spring, my wife came to me about helping a girl who's family had recently fallen into hard times. Her father was laid off and her brother is a drug addict. She was trying to find a place of her own because she couldn't take working two jobs to support her brother and father. In doing so, she was unable to afford food for the first couple months. We ended up giving her roughly 25 lbs of hamburger, some steaks, soup, and other types of food that would last her for awhile.

I'd much rather give directly than trust an organization to be responsible.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:22 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:You just cannot comprehend the level of dysfunction.
Yes I can……those are the people in my nightmare scenario who'd be selling their eyes and kidneys for cheap in your dream scenario, and they'd do it no matter the going rate :eek: :eek:

These people would NOT exist in my dream world. The reason they exist in 21st century America is because they have been created by people implementing your dream :thumbsup:

http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21589230-britain-no-longer-has-serious-race-problem-trouble-isolation-new-kind
A new kind of ghetto
Britain no longer has a serious race problem. The trouble is isolation

Ghettos are normally thought of as black or Asian: the Bangladeshi housing estates of Tower Hamlets or the intensely African neighbourhood of Peckham, both in London. But Stockbridge Village qualifies, too. It is whiter than Britain or Merseyside as a whole, as well as far more homogeneously working-class. And it has social problems to match any ethnic-minority ghetto. Many of its inhabitants are ill. It is plagued by loan sharks. And its children are failing spectacularly. White 16-year-olds in Knowsley, the borough of which Stockbridge forms part, attain worse GCSE results than do black 16-year-olds in any London borough.


In short, Stockbridge Village is isolated. Its isolation is partly geographical—it is two miles from the nearest railway station, and three out of every five households have no car—but mostly cultural. Its residents are trapped in a cycle of low achievement and low earnings. So are many other working-class whites in other public housing estates in Britain. Nationally, poor whites fare worse at school than poor blacks or Asians (see chart 6).


It is this cultural isolation created by the welfare state that brings about the very nightmares you worry about.

To believe that someone would donate a kidney that is unwilling to get a job or take any of the other opportunities available to him which lead him to this desperate state is naive. How many of these homeless people avail themselves of the opportunity to sell their plasma, which they can do quite frequently?
http://bloodbanker.com/plasma/plasma-donation/chicago/
How Much Does The Center Pay Per Donation?
$20 , $50, $20, $50 after that goes to $15 and $30
How often can one donate at the center?
You can donate plasma up to two times in a seven day period.


They simply are not doing all the things they could do to make a lot more money, but you think they would sell their organs and it would be a nightmare. We are not talking about doing it at an abortion clinic that liberals are afraid to regulate, but at hospitals that people such as yourself would insist on being well done and the donor well informed as it should be done at abortion clinics and I would agree. Besides, is it a nightmare if someone donates an organ out of the goodness of their heart, but it is when they do it for a penny? :huh:
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby vincentpa » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:51 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:
vincentpa wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Just in the interests of full disclosure, ALL the donations I make, which varies considerably from year to year, are done on the street, in person. That way I know exactly where it's going, and I get a rough idea (no promises) as to how effective a leg up it might be. I've never given to Toys for Tots



It's going right to the liquor store. :thumbsup:

Some, no doubt, but that's not always the end of the world……..in fact one Christmas Eve I gave a fifth of Jack Daniels to the dwarf alcoholic with whom I'd ridden into Seattle twenty years earlier. I picked him up hitchhiking in Eastern Washington and bought him lunch along the way……..he shared his cheap :eek: wine with me and we had a pretty good time bullshitting the miles away. Anyway, after that I'd see him on the street every now and then, and he never did kick the booze, so when I spotted him that Christmas Eve, I figured screw it, and just bought him what had to have been the best Christmas present of his life, if I could believe the hard luck stories. And I think sometimes charity works pretty well that way…..ditch the judgment for a moment, and just give something that lets a guy feel like he's in the lap of actual luxury, if only for a single night of boozing it up.
I haven't seen Shorty (he actually called himself that) in years. Probably died……..
If I have the time I'll walk someone into a McDonalds or something and buy them a meal. That's pretty bombproof, and though it's time consuming, it has the added advantage of actually getting to hear their story. (Yeah, they're mostly bullshit….but if you've got a good ear and a better filter, you can start to get the picture)
Charity needs to be personal if it's gonna work for both sides……... and I think there's lots of ways to accomplish that



:beer: Great story!
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby assateague » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:02 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:Some, no doubt, but that's not always the end of the world……..in fact one Christmas Eve I gave a fifth of Jack Daniels to the dwarf alcoholic with whom I'd ridden into Seattle twenty years earlier. I picked him up hitchhiking in Eastern Washington and bought him lunch along the way……..he shared his cheap :eek: wine with me and we had a pretty good time bullshitting the miles away. Anyway, after that I'd see him on the street every now and then, and he never did kick the booze, so when I spotted him that Christmas Eve, I figured screw it, and just bought him what had to have been the best Christmas present of his life, if I could believe the hard luck stories. And I think sometimes charity works pretty well that way…..ditch the judgment for a moment, and just give something that lets a guy feel like he's in the lap of actual luxury, if only for a single night of boozing it up.
I haven't seen Shorty (he actually called himself that) in years. Probably died……..
If I have the time I'll walk someone into a McDonalds or something and buy them a meal. That's pretty bombproof, and though it's time consuming, it has the added advantage of actually getting to hear their story. (Yeah, they're mostly bullshit….but if you've got a good ear and a better filter, you can start to get the picture)
Charity needs to be personal if it's gonna work for both sides……... and I think there's lots of ways to accomplish that



Good. I'm glad we both agree that government welfare programs are a counterproductive waste of time and resources. Welcome to conservatism.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby blackduckdog2 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:55 pm

assateague wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:Some, no doubt, but that's not always the end of the world……..in fact one Christmas Eve I gave a fifth of Jack Daniels to the dwarf alcoholic with whom I'd ridden into Seattle twenty years earlier. I picked him up hitchhiking in Eastern Washington and bought him lunch along the way……..he shared his cheap :eek: wine with me and we had a pretty good time bullshitting the miles away. Anyway, after that I'd see him on the street every now and then, and he never did kick the booze, so when I spotted him that Christmas Eve, I figured screw it, and just bought him what had to have been the best Christmas present of his life, if I could believe the hard luck stories. And I think sometimes charity works pretty well that way…..ditch the judgment for a moment, and just give something that lets a guy feel like he's in the lap of actual luxury, if only for a single night of boozing it up.
I haven't seen Shorty (he actually called himself that) in years. Probably died……..
If I have the time I'll walk someone into a McDonalds or something and buy them a meal. That's pretty bombproof, and though it's time consuming, it has the added advantage of actually getting to hear their story. (Yeah, they're mostly bullshit….but if you've got a good ear and a better filter, you can start to get the picture)
Charity needs to be personal if it's gonna work for both sides……... and I think there's lots of ways to accomplish that



Good. I'm glad we both agree that government welfare programs are a counterproductive waste of time and resources. Welcome to conservatism.

Geez Louise, AT, you just got a serious compulsion to overstate my position. However, I'm with you on this one, more or less. Charity needs to be personal, but the actual safety net's a whole other thing, imho
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:17 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:Charity needs to be personal, but the actual safety net's a whole other thing, imho

In 21st century, what is the long-term average fraction of the population you think should be on the safety net? Excluding the mentally retarded and severely physically disabled, I just don't see how you call it a safety net if more than 5% and probably even that is too high to really call it a safety net.

For a safety net to be an actual safety net and not a hammock, it too must be personal. I would be satisfied with it just being local. Let the village elders decide locally and not the people from thousands of miles away set policy. It's like setting local minimum wages for low cost of living rural communities by people living in one of the highest cost of living urban communities in the country. They just cannot comprehend what people need in these places nor the implications of their policies on these places.

I'm serious about this. If Obama as a community organizer could not go to Springfield or Washington for a handout, he would have had to have been clever. Instead, he just went around panhandling for his community and they never had to figure out as a community how to better themselves and to this day, they suffer. If everybody in the community is relying on the so-called safety net for generations, there is a massive problem and it is not a safety net. It is a hammock and the community is asleep and not trying to get off the safety net and do it right the next attempt.

In many cases, the safety net MUST consist of a bus ticket. What kind of safety net can you provide for a community whose industry died generations ago and nothing to replace it will can be expected? The only thing it will ever be in practice is a hammock that generation after generation sleep upon and get fat, lazy, and stupid. It is not saving them from a fall. It is allowing them to waste their life without too much short-term discomfort and that is exactly what they do while the best and brightest leave generation after generation and society decays over time.

A few weeks, maybe a few months of unemployment insurance is a safety net. Up to 99 weeks is a lifestyle. Also, going on unemployment every winter because it is too cold to pour concrete is not a safety net, it is vacation pay.

I'm all with you for a true safety net that keeps people from splatting on the rocks below. Those circumstances are rare and the people receiving these benefits should be few and the duration relatively short. If people keep jumping off the same cliff, why should you be forced to keep holding up the net when you have much better things to do with your time and money than support someone's winter vacation or their choice to live their life in their hometown without any economic prospects. We are a nation of immigrants and that means our asses are not anchored to our ancestors home town. If you want to stay, then why the hell should I have to pay?
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby boney fingers » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:22 pm

I give, Christmas is about getting a gift that none of us deserve or paid for. Most of theses kids parents are in jail, AWAL, or completely worthless; this is the only chance they may get to feel like a kid. My children haven't "earned" the gifts they receive from me , so why should I feel different about giving gifts to other undeserving kids. Charity is about me willfully giving the fruits of my labor to others that are less fortunate then myself; it is not the government taking from me and using that money to buy votes to insure their political futures. If I give money and someone takes advantage of me, that's on them not on me.
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby boney fingers » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:25 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
Rat Creek wrote:
The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. Ezekiel 18:20


So with that in mind, I cannot blame the kids for their bum parents.
You seriously required scriptural guidance to arrive at such a conclusion? That's a little scary, but I guess it's right in line with the thinking that insists there can be no morality without God.
And isn't Toys for Tots run by the US Marine Corps? Sweet Jesus, you guys just won't trust ANYBODY, will you?



I guess you are opposed to racial quotas and reparations then?
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Re: Toys For Tots do you give???

Postby Rat Creek » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:31 am

blackduckdog2 wrote:You seriously required scriptural guidance to arrive at such a conclusion?


Never said that, but whatever. :rolleyes: Your knee jerk libby reaction to any mention of the Bible is expected and easily predictable. :no:

There is good wisdom in the Bible and other places, so why not observe it.
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