Abuse of Power

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Abuse of Power

Postby Bloke » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:55 am

It seems that I am hearing more and more about police, sheriff, jailers, and corrections officers getting in trouble for excessive use of force. Now before I get lambasted, I know they have a very hard job and deal with the scum of the earth on a regular basis. I would not want to have to do it and appreciate what they do, but guys like this are pieces of feces and only have to job to bully people. This guy needs his ass beat plain and simple. From what I can tell the drunk dude never did anything wrong. There is no excuse for it. After he slams his head, if you look you can see the deep eratic breathing of the victim with signifies concussive force. You see it allot in MMA or boxing when someone gets knocked out.

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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby sampsonhuntin » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:24 am

Take his badge and gun away and he is just another fat boy who never had friends.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:30 am

There are good and bad cops out there. The mentality has changed for many from serving others to I go home and F the public. This kind of cop needs to learn what a few years in a jail cell as a cop is like.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:50 am

I think there are two things going on.

Bloke wrote:It seems that I am hearing more and more about

It's a story that sells well everywhere, no matter where in the country it happens and given that there are so many cops in our huge nation, it's not hard to find these stories if you look.

ScaupHunter wrote:There are good and bad cops out there.

Always have and always will.

I'm all for giving the cops the benefit of the doubt, but when they cross a clear line :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

This is why cameras everywhere is a good thing. There was a big story a couple years back. about a bunch of Chicago cops exposed for doing horrible things.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/01/jon-burge-states-attorney_n_521912.html

Courthouse News reports that the defendants include former Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge, who is notorious for leading a group of detectives and officers known as the "Midnight Crew." This group has been connected with hundreds of cases of brutal interrogation, including electric shock and mock executions, in an effort to obtain confessions.


This guy got convicted and a bunch of people spent decades in jail because of tortured confessions. No matter how long he spends in jail it is not enough. Clearly this guy should be executed for his horrible crimes and their huge impact they have not just on the lives he wrecked, but the justifiable fear of the police that it spread in the community. If you can't trust the cops, the entire system will fail.

I do not think it is nearly as frequent as it was when this was SOP for this crew in Chicago, but it gets a lot more coverage and while mostly for the wrong reasons, that is still a very good thing.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby WTN10 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:22 am

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby blackduckdog2 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:32 am

WTN10 wrote:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:00 pm

WTN10 wrote:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Far more people than used to with the inclusion of cameras so many places.

Everybody can now see the blood smears on the wall for themselves and who was involved. This is more prevalent which is in large part why I believe it is less common. Just think if there were no cameras and these images did not exist.

Image
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby charlie beard » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:24 pm

The other cops standing there were just as guilty in my book.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:36 pm

charlie beard wrote:The other cops standing there were just as guilty in my book.

:thumbsup:
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby assateague » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:49 pm

I'm all about individual responsibility. Lord knows, you guys hear it enough from me. So I don't want what I'm going to say to be misconstrued. An "excuse" or explanation for an action does not absolve one from the consequences of that action, and I fully expect one to pay the price for it (hence the "personal responsibility")

It seems to me that a lot of this behavior can be attributed to the current "culture" of the police forces, rather than strictly an individual cop issue. Over the past few years, police have become increasingly militarized, and have completely gotten away from the community-based civil servants which they were for so long. Now, it's difficult at best to tell the difference between a cop writing a speeding ticket and a soldier in Afghanistan, perhaps with the exception of the helmet, including their actions towards the people they interact with on a daily basis. The "culture" has increasingly become combative rather than helpful, and to lay it all on the hands of society ("we never used to have armed drug dealers", or some such nonsensical argument) is stupid. There have always been criminals. There have always been bad people. Cops have always been in a dangerous profession. The only real difference is the attitude in which they see themselves.

They dress in tactical gear, complete with plate-carrying body armor. They see themselves as an elite military force. They pretty much practice military tactics. When these things occur, a default to the "respect my authoritah" attitude can hardly be far behind. I'm not sure why it happened, but cops acting (and being treated as) a military force in hostile territory is counterproductive to their role in society. But guess what? They have bought into it, and like it. So you get this sort of nonsense.

Just my opinion, but it seems to be true. None of this excuses their actions, but it may explain them.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:05 pm

I really do not think it is happening more often. I really think the big difference is that today we have it on video as opposed to the word of mouth of some dumbass punk that probably did deserve a beating anyways.

My guess is everybody that knows the guy that got his head smacked against the wall, probably would say, yep, he deserved it. So without the images, it would just have passed without a word and that cop would be smacking someone else's head against the wall before long and on it would go until he accidentally killed someone and even then it might continue.

Today, we are watching. Everybody is watching a lot more closely. This certainly weeds out a lot of bad cops and bad behavior, but it will never do it all. I couldn't do what they do. I don't have the mentality for it. I'd be one of the people weeded out for mistreating some dumbass that just needed a good smack upside the head.

Look at the Chicago case I references. This was organized brutality within the police department and it was well known through out at the time. I really do not believe that that kind of organized and routine torture is happening anywhere. I think it is this kind of thing which also happened back then, but now there is a lot more risk of getting caught which deters and weeds out more effectively than in the past.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby ctdeathfrombelow » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:27 pm

It absolutely is happening more often! Name one of your "friendly" neighborhood officers, bet they're few and far between, and the ones that are, mostly likely are retiring within a year or so. What happened to the cops that would find the neighborhood kids out past dark, or "exploring" an area they shouldn't be, and sticking them in the back of the car and driving them home to the parents who would punish them? Now the kids are more likely to get tazed, maced, or cuffed, orrrr all three, simply because they were on their skateboard. I remember not to long ago in high school we were in the woods having a Bon fire at a friends house. Someone called the cops, and the swat team responded by sneaking up on us in the woods. Not necessary to break up a little party.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby vincentpa » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:32 pm

assateague wrote:I'm all about individual responsibility. Lord knows, you guys hear it enough from me. So I don't want what I'm going to say to be misconstrued. An "excuse" or explanation for an action does not absolve one from the consequences of that action, and I fully expect one to pay the price for it (hence the "personal responsibility")

It seems to me that a lot of this behavior can be attributed to the current "culture" of the police forces, rather than strictly an individual cop issue. Over the past few years, police have become increasingly militarized, and have completely gotten away from the community-based civil servants which they were for so long. Now, it's difficult at best to tell the difference between a cop writing a speeding ticket and a soldier in Afghanistan, perhaps with the exception of the helmet, including their actions towards the people they interact with on a daily basis. The "culture" has increasingly become combative rather than helpful, and to lay it all on the hands of society ("we never used to have armed drug dealers", or some such nonsensical argument) is stupid. There have always been criminals. There have always been bad people. Cops have always been in a dangerous profession. The only real difference is the attitude in which they see themselves.

They dress in tactical gear, complete with plate-carrying body armor. They see themselves as an elite military force. They pretty much practice military tactics. When these things occur, a default to the "respect my authoritah" attitude can hardly be far behind. I'm not sure why it happened, but cops acting (and being treated as) a military force in hostile territory is counterproductive to their role in society. But guess what? They have bought into it, and like it. So you get this sort of nonsense.

Just my opinion, but it seems to be true. None of this excuses their actions, but it may explain them.


Like the military giving the police departments MRAPs? I don't think that played a role here. It seems like the cop(s) went too far. Like Spinner stated, in a country with thousands of cops, there are likely to be some bad apples. However, I share your concerns about the militarization of the police. I believe there are police officers that share your concerns as well. Their voices are drowned out though. Why is it necessary to send an armored vehicle and a SWAT team to a domestic call? Because they have to justify the SWAT team and its expenditure. They send the pseudo warriors into battle dressed in fatigues in an armored vehicle with AR-15s. The situation just got escalated from a domestic call that could've been handled by a couple of uniformed patrolmen to a hostage scenario with automatic weapons. This is now routine. There was a shooting in a hospital in Pittsburgh a year or so ago. I counted 5 armored SWAT vehicles from the news footage. 5 of these types of vehicles to serve a metro area with 2.1 million inhabitants! Are they expecting to combat the Taliban in the streets of Pittsburgh? Whenever these units are called, the situation becomes escalated as I stated before. The police that don the fatigues and pick up the rifles go through a personality change. It's well documented by psychologists. It's the same change people go through when they put on a costume for Halloween only with far more severe consequences. The chances for shooting accidents skyrockets as cops with itchy fingers and heightened adrenaline make life and death decisions. Of course, these situations could've been avoided entirely with old fashioned police work. More and more people and organizations are speaking out about this. However, when the equipment and gear are free from Uncle Sam, the local PDs are not going to say no. Thank you GWB for starting the militarization of our police.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:01 pm

ctdeathfrombelow wrote:Go on youtube and look up some of the videos on there. It's no wonder so many people hate cops, when they're beating people and shooting their dogs for no reason.
But what about when they did this BEFORE youtube? :huh:

I know this stuff was happening decades ago, but nobody had cellphone cameras.

Reading it in the paper with no pictures or having it passed along by word of mouth does not have anywhere close to the impact of one youtube video. BTW, youtube is not even 1 decade old. Cellphone video in not old. It used to be if the professional news was not present, there was no video and probably not even any decent photos.

I get what all you are saying, but there is strong evidence that a lot this stuff was happening long ago. Who has not heard stories about this kind of thing? If not, maybe you didn't hang around with a low enough class of people.

I've heard stories from my grandfather and his brother-in-law about this douche power tripping cop. One time by chance this cop pulled my grandfather over. My grandfather knocked the cop out cold on the side of the road and left. If you know my grandfather, you would not doubt the story. He was quick and generally very effective with the fists. I think he got in his last bar fight when he was about 60.

I just think the effect of cameras in public and in the interrogation rooms has a much large impact of reducing this thing than the effect you all describe. The public is also a lot less accepting of this kind of behavior because it's a lot harder to say they deserved it when you have the video and it's clear it wasn't a smack upside the head, but far worse.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby ctdeathfrombelow » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:29 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
ctdeathfrombelow wrote:Go on youtube and look up some of the videos on there. It's no wonder so many people hate cops, when they're beating people and shooting their dogs for no reason.
But what about when they did this BEFORE youtube? :huh:

I know this stuff was happening decades ago, but nobody had cellphone cameras.

Reading it in the paper with no pictures or having it passed along by word of mouth does not have anywhere close to the impact of one youtube video. BTW, youtube is not even 1 decade old. Cellphone video in not old. It used to be if the professional news was not present, there was no video and probably not even any decent photos.

I get what all you are saying, but there is strong evidence that a lot this stuff was happening long ago. Who has not heard stories about this kind of thing? If not, maybe you didn't hang around with a low enough class of people.

I've heard stories from my grandfather and his brother-in-law about this douche power tripping cop. One time by chance this cop pulled my grandfather over. My grandfather knocked the cop out cold on the side of the road and left. If you know my grandfather, you would not doubt the story. He was quick and generally very effective with the fists. I think he got in his last bar fight when he was about 60.

I just think the effect of cameras in public and in the interrogation rooms has a much large impact of reducing this thing than the effect you all describe. The public is also a lot less accepting of this kind of behavior because it's a lot harder to say they deserved it when you have the video and it's clear it wasn't a smack upside the head, but far worse.

I don't doubt it's been happening for a while, but there's been in influx of it recently, maybe with in the last 20-30 years. I say bring back shiny shoes, ties, and 8 pointed hats.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:36 pm

ctdeathfrombelow wrote:I don't doubt it's been happening for a while, but there's been in influx of it recently, maybe with in the last 20-30 years. I say bring back shiny shoes, ties, and 8 pointed hats.

Reporting of it or actual increases in it? How would you even know. There is strong evidence that it was almost never reported in the past or even reported now, but with the huge influx of cameras in the last 20-30 years along with the creation of the 24/7 news talk channels and the internet, one event caught on camera anywhere in the country is suddenly the buzz of the nation.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby charlie beard » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:13 pm

I think some people get a badge on it's an ego trip or high for them.
They suddenly think they are above the law.

Not a cop but an example Zimmerman.
God only knows what he would have been like with a badge on.

Then you have the Blue Code of Silence.
I think I would be safe to say more of this police brutality goes on than the cameras film.
Most cops are caught only because they lose their temper.
They dam well know it's on camera.

Just think what takes place when they know they are not on camera.
That's when the Blue Code of Silence comes to play.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby Andy W » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:25 am

The scum that did this is a jailer, not a cop.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby ScaupHunter » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:42 am

Same training, Same oath, same job just in a jail. He is a cop. Our county deputies all go through the same training and all pull a County Jail duty tour every now and then.
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Re: Abuse of Power

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:36 am

charlie beard wrote:Not a cop but an example Zimmerman.
God only knows what he would have been like with a badge on.

I agree with all you said but this. Zimmerman NEVER tried to impose his will on Martin nor did he seek to confront him. He called the cops and watched Martin while he waited. If he was on a power trip, he would have got out and got in his face. He stayed in his car as long as Martin was in sight and only got out of his car when he needed to not lose sight of him so the cops could confront Martin. Martin ran away and he lost sight and was walking back to his car, which is clear from the tapes. At which point, Martin decided to circle back and beat the hell out of Zimmerman, which was probably because his idiot female friend had convinced him that Zimmerman was a sexual predator, and it was only after he was on the ground getting the crap beat out of him that he pulled his gun to defend himself. This guy was not on a power trip. Poor judgment, in spades, look at him and his idiot girlfriend that said he pulled a gun on him and she now wants to get back with him and he didn't tell her to get lost. I know these type of idiots. They are good people that mean well, but they are just Image stupid. They can't think further ahead than half a step. Trying to explain to them how and why to setup decoys and how the ducks will swing around into the wind and the minimal forethought that goes into setting blocks would baffle them.

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MORGAN: And he was freaked out by it?

JEANTEL: Yes. Definitely after I say may be a rapist, for every boy, for every man, every -- who's not that kind of way, seeing a grown man following them, would they be creep out?... And people need to understand, he didn't want that creepy ass cracker going to his father or girlfriend's house to go get -- mind you, his little brother was there. You know -- now, mind you, I told you -- I told Trayvon it might have been a rapist."

Two morons crossed paths that night. One trying to protect his community and the other walking around in the dark probably doing nothing wrong. One called the dispatcher and tried to get the cops to see what this guy was up to. The other got freaked out by being watched and then got talked into thinking he was in danger from some gay rapist and went back for a little vigilante justice. Hey, who wouldn't want to beat the hell out of a gay rapist?

The prosecutor, while not beating Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk like Martin nor smacking it against the wall like the cop in the photo, he abused his power just as badly by prosecuting Zimmerman for political reasons when there was strong evidence that Zimmerman did not initiate the confrontation nor wrongfully defended himself from serious harm given that he had a broken nose and a bloody head and clearly had already suffered serious bodily harm and there was an eye witness that corroborated much of this part of the story. I'd much rather have my head smacked against the wall than face the kind of jail time Zimmerman did from a prosecutor on a power trip.
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