A Dangerous Message

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A Dangerous Message

Postby assateague » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:36 am

I thought there was already a thread about this, but apparently not. I can't believe there isn't more outrage about Chuck Shumer calling for the IRS to crack down on groups who "dare" to speak out against the government.

Schumer urged the Internal Revenue Service to double down on targeting Tea Party groups. “It is clear that we will not pass anything legislatively as long as the House of Representatives is in Republican control, but there are many things that can be done administratively by the IRS and other government agencies — we must redouble those efforts immediately,” Schumer said.


This is complete bullshit, and people need to wake up. An American senator calling for the IRS to "redouble" their illegal efforts to hamstring groups which disagree with the government. But why would I even expect anyone on the left to disagree? Because if laws are broken in an effort to do what they feel is "ok", then it is in fact "ok". People should really be up in arms about this sort of crap. Nothing but crickets.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:19 am

They literally don't understand or simply reject freedom for those they disagree with.

They reject the notion that if you are not free to say and do stupid things, then you are not free.

They claim they are for democracy, but only when they get their way. Which is really what they believe. My way or the highway. And will do whatever it takes to make sure they get their way. Nixon would be very proud.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby beretta24 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:37 am

SMH...

I have long clung to the hope that America is different, and perhaps we have the ability to reverse course. The more I hear stuff like this the closer I get to hoping this thing implodes sooner rather than later.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:07 pm

Here's another version of what I think is the same mindset.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/panelist-podesta-think-tank-common-core-children-belong-all-us

“Why should some towns and cities and states have no standards or low standards and others have extremely high standards when the children belong to all of us and would move [to different states in their educational lives]?”

That's right, Obama's children belong to you and me :banana: So we get to tell him what to do with his children and since I think all children should be instilled with the same religious values as me, well, why not impose that since every child belongs in part to me?

Oh, wait, it only goes the other way. The children of the elite belong to the elite only, and the children of everyone else also belong to the elite.

They literally see know danger in this mindset because they are incapable of envisioning anyone but themselves in charge despite the vast amount of real word examples of very wrong people getting in charge. If they don't like a reducto ad hitlerum, how about a reducto ad nixonium. Of course we could go with the reducto ad chavezium, but they general like him.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby vincentpa » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:48 am

Liberals always go too far. They are the most self-absorbed, self-righteous, egotistical and arrogant people on the planet. It is impossible for them to recognize or even contemplate that they could be wrong. They won't understand until they are looking down the wrong end of a gun.

I will also add that they don't understand how far they are pushing it and how close to oblivion they are. I am unfortunately losing hope that this will resolve itself politically in my lifetime.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:20 pm

beretta24 wrote:SMH...

I have long clung to the hope that America is different, and perhaps we have the ability to reverse course. The more I hear stuff like this the closer I get to hoping this thing implodes sooner rather than later.



America was different, and then someone decided to allow communists, and socialworkers to run our schools and public systems. The socialist / communists are steadily educating an entire generation of idiots and welfare slugs to ensure their grasp on power is complete. We are no longer different. We are no longer a great nation. We are a nation of complacent sheep with our grubby mitts held out for scraps and welfare loans to the tune of trillions. The people who want contral and power should never have it. We have calmly put our heads in their noose and they are slowly tightening it while we sleep.

There is no way this ends well.

We have given the power to idiots with no clue how the real world works. Benghazi is a perfect example of what happens when the wolf knocks at the door. The idiots in charge blame You Tube videos and then ask how their failures can matter. It will come soon enough. The only question is when and by whom. Internal or external it always happens. World history makes this very clear.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:01 pm

Saw it Assa, meant to post it, but did not have time to do so at the moment. I keep saying that with all the NSA revelations and the IRS targeting that we are on the verge of a full out police state.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby Glimmerjim » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:48 pm

I don't necessarily disagree with the egregious nature of this attitude, AT, but how much does it differ from the staunch, Republican base stating on Inauguration night that they will have a concerted effort to fight every move that Obama makes?
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby DuckinFool » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:14 am

Glimmerjim wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with the egregious nature of this attitude, AT, but how much does it differ from the staunch, Republican base stating on Inauguration night that they will have a concerted effort to fight every move that Obama makes?


The progressive Republicans lied.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:36 am

Glimmerjim wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with the egregious nature of this attitude, AT, but how much does it differ from the staunch, Republican base stating on Inauguration night that they will have a concerted effort to fight every move that Obama makes?


Specifically resisting a president through legal and constitutional means cannot be compared in any way to violating your oath and the constitutional rights of any citizen. You know better Jim.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby assateague » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:58 am

Glimmerjim wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with the egregious nature of this attitude, AT, but how much does it differ from the staunch, Republican base stating on Inauguration night that they will have a concerted effort to fight every move that Obama makes?



Because one is legal and the other isn't.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby TomKat » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:48 am

Glimmerjim wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with the egregious nature of this attitude, AT, but how much does it differ from the staunch, Republican base stating on Inauguration night that they will have a concerted effort to fight every move that Obama makes?


REALLY? 2 wrongs make a right?
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:16 am

The president works for me Jim! I don't work for him. When he is screwing me and mine while violating the law and my rights, you are dang right I am going to stand up and tell him no. My elected representatives had damn well better be doing so as well.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby TomKat » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:04 am

Glimmerjim, how do you defend such a bald face liar as Barry Sotero every day? Just the amount of lies he has told is mind boggling. Look at how many of Bush's policies he has expanded upon.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby vincentpa » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:39 am

Just came out yesterday Lois Lerner and someone from the FEC were planning new regulations under the radar to avoid comment before the IRS scandal broke. That destroys the rationale for the Barry Administrations reasoning for tightening rules against conservative groups using the IRS.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:27 am

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304181204579365161576171176

The email cites a blog post about the political activity of tax-exempt 501(c)(4) groups and reads: "Don't know who in your organizations [sic] is keeping tabs on c4s, but since we mentioned potentially addressing them (off-plan) in 2013, I've got my radar up and this seemed interesting."

Interesting for sure. The IRS typically puts out a public schedule of coming regulations, and Mr. Camp noted that in this case "off-plan" appears to mean "hidden from the public." He added that committee interviews with IRS officials have found that the new 2013 rules were in the works as early as 2011, meaning the Administration has "fabricated the rationale" for this new regulation.

Mr. Camp added that everything his committee has discovered contradicts the White House argument that the IRS scandal was caused by legal "confusion." The current rules governing 501(c)(4)s have existed, unchanged, since 1959. Prior to 2010 the IRS processed and approved tax-exempt applications in fewer than three months with no apparent befuddlement.

The IRS hyper-scrutiny of conservative groups only began in 2010 amid the Obama Administration's larger political attack on political donors like the Koch brothers, and emails show that IRS officials were acutely aware of this political environment. In February 2010, for example, an IRS screener in Cincinnati flagged an application to his superiors noting: "Recent media attention to this type of organization indicates to me that this is a 'high profile' case."

From then on applications were routed through the offices of Mrs. Lerner and Obama-appointed IRS chief counsel William Wilkins, and long approval delays ensued. Extensive interviews and emails show that neither the initial Cincinnati interest, nor the subsequent Washington delay, was in any way driven by "confusion."


Of course, nobody that supports Obama will care the slightest about abuse of Federal power to benefit the Democrats. If Nixon were a Democrat, he'd be a liberal hero.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby nitram » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:05 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:Of course, nobody that supports Obama will care the slightest about abuse of Federal power to benefit the Democrats. If Nixon were a Democrat, he'd be a liberal hero.


How true. However, comparing what Nixon "did" to what BHO and co. have "done" is like comparing a single-engine Cessna to the Space Shuttle.

On another note for BO's team, his IRS continues to stonewall the congressional investigation of its illegal targeting of Tea Party groups. Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-SC) asked IRS Commissioner John Koskinen, “How long will it take you to produce Lois Lerner's emails … from January of 2010? Can we have it by Friday?” Koskinen replied, “Absolutely not. There's no way physically we can,” adding later that it could take “years” to produce the requested material. But Gowdy was having none of it, insisting, “I want our subpoena complied with,” even if it's incremental. “Let's do January 2010,” Gowdy said. “Then let's get ambitious and do February of 2010. Then let's go to March 2010. And I think you know why I'm doing 2010, commissioner.” He sure does – that's when the targeting started, and it's why the IRS is so loath to turn over the information.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby buckmeister » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:15 pm

The entire democratic congress and party is involved and in agreement with the stonewalling and cover up of the IRS scandal. .
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby Glimmerjim » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:53 am

I just heard today that there is going to be another hearing and Lerner will be subpoenaed to testify. Whether she can, and will, invoke her 5th Amendments rights again is up in the air. Whether she legally can or not after making her opening statement is going to be a big factor. Issa has spoken of pursuing criminal complaints if she does. I would think there would be precedents to this that would make it legal or not, but am not familiar with them. She has also asked for, and been refused, personal immunity for her testimony.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby Glimmerjim » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:01 am

assateague wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with the egregious nature of this attitude, AT, but how much does it differ from the staunch, Republican base stating on Inauguration night that they will have a concerted effort to fight every move that Obama makes?



Because one is legal and the other isn't.

I thought as Americans we were not guilty until proven to be? It depends upon the ultimately decided legality of the IRS'es actions. Apparently there were more "progressive" and "liberal" non-profits singled out for closer investigation than was originally considered. There is also legislation currently proposed to set a clearer set of standards for "non-profit" companies and which prohibits some of their organized political actions. The Republicans are fighting this legislation vehemently as counter to Free Speech laws.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby assateague » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:36 am

I've got the perfect solution- the Fair Tax. The IRS could be staffed by 3 people and a bunch of computers. Problem solved.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:06 pm

assateague wrote:I've got the perfect solution- the Fair Tax. The IRS could be staffed by 3 people and a bunch of computers. Problem solved.

Three people for 310+ million, :banana: No taxes will be paid. I'm not buying it for personal consumption, I'm buying it for my business to resale and I'll get you the tax as soon as that happens :wink:

States with similar taxes still have substantial revenue services and there will be just as large of an incentive for a black market and cheating as there is now for working "side jobs" under the table or lying on your tax forms.

While I agree it would be a better systems starting from scratch, these kind of obvious fanciful statements don't make it seem serious.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby ScaupHunter » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:51 pm

It is easy enough to make the system work without increasing tax bureaus Spinner. Just retrain the present tools in the box to handle review and regulation of the new and simple ( read understandable ) Fair Tax law and you get proper collection after a few years of regulated effort.

I have worked in regulation for quite a while. A new system takes a year or two to shake out. You figure out who the bad players are pretty quickly and can focus in on them to fix those issues. Most people and businesses are honest and work well within the regulations. It is a small percentage that don't.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:06 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:It is easy enough to make the system work without increasing tax bureaus Spinner.
:fingerpt:
I didn't say increase. I said it won't reduce it to practically nothing. It would be much smaller, but still quite substantial. It would be interesting to compare the sizes between states with complex income taxes, simple income taxes, both income and sales tax, and sales tax only.

The key to any knew plan is simplicity. Even if running a small business, every high school graduate in the country should be able to clearly understand the tax system and be able to do his own taxes without fear.
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Re: A Dangerous Message

Postby ScaupHunter » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:27 pm

We agree there. The monstrosity of a tax system we have now is simply unexplainable. The real questions is who in the hell thought what we have was a good idea.
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