Bait and Switch

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Bait and Switch

Postby nitram » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:21 pm

The list of problems with ObamaCare is already long, from a busted Healthcare.gov rollout to skyrocketing insurance premiums to cancelled plans and so on and so on. But the Philadelphia Inquirer has the scoop on yet another glitch: “Incorrect poverty-level guidelines are automatically telling what could be tens of thousands of eligible people they do not qualify for subsidized insurance. … The mistake raises the price of their insurance by thousands of dollars, making insurance so unaffordable many may just give up and go without.”

How could that happen? The Wall Street Journal's James Taranto explains, “The error affects consumers in states that haven't opted into ObamaCare's Medicaid expansion. … The problem arises because ObamaCare uses two different definitions of the poverty line. Whereas eligibility for subsidies is determined by the 2013 line, eligibility for Medicaid is based on the 2014 line, which is 1.5% higher. The website mistakenly calculates eligibility for subsidies using the 2014 line.” In other words, some number of people are being told they're not eligible for subsidies when they should be. If they don't abandon their question but proceed to the next step, they discover they are actually eligible. The reverse is also sometimes happening – a consumer thinks they're eligible only to later find they're not.

On top of this problem, subsidies are doled out based on projected income, and therefore will be recalculated when recipients file their 2014 tax returns next year. Many people may earn more than they anticipated and then discover on next year's tax returns that they must pay back the subsidies they claimed this year via the federal exchange. That's going to be a nasty surprise. Not to worry, though: Harry Reid assured us, “There's plenty of horror stories being told [about ObamaCare]. All of them are untrue.”

Meanwhile, yet another problem with the subsidy calculations didn't properly account for married couples who file taxes separately. The Washington Post reports, “The IRS said in the preamble to those 2012 rules that it would correct the mistake, yet in the nearly two years since then, the Treasury Department has not made the change. And battered spouses have become the leading edge of a small army of people – legally married but filing taxes on their own – stepping up pressure to get an equal chance at affordable health plans.” So the IRS has known about the problem for two years? Perhaps they were too busy targeting Tea Party groups for audit to get around to fixing it.

Finally, subsidies may end altogether for two-thirds of the population. The DC Circuit Court of Appeals is hearing a challenge today to the administration's lawless interpretation of the actual wording of ObamaCare. The law says subsidies are available only “through an Exchange established by the State.” Well, 34 states opted out and another two failed to meet the criteria. Yet the White House has offered subsidies everywhere anyway.

All of this illustrates the inherent pitfalls in weaving ObamaCare together with the IRS. Arguably the most intrusive agency in all of government is now instrumental in managing your health care. But I leave you with these words from Barack Obama: “I am absolutely confident that you will see millions of people benefitting from this law. It is working the way it should.”
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:01 am

Another totally Image up aspect of Obamacare.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/no-insurance-better-unapproved-insurance-under-obamacare_786056.html

Would President Obama prefer that you have health insurance of which he doesn’t approve, or no health insurance at all? Well, based on the penalties in play under his signature legislation, it would appear that he prefers for you to have no insurance at all than to have the “wrong” insurance (as defined, of course, by his administration).


If your employer offers you insurance that doesn’t provide free ella, or anything else on the list of “preventive services”—as defined by Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and ultimately by Obama—then it’s subject to a fine of $36,500 a year. But if your employer doesn’t offer you insurance at all, it’s subject to a fine of $2,000 a year.


Dumbass control freaks.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:19 am

Yet people still defend the stupidity and claim Ocare is the wonder of the world.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:47 am

And now a Democrat pollster is telling Democrats to admit that it always was a bait and switch.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2546236
One of the nation's leading Democratic pollsters and strategists is urging embattled House and Senate incumbents to abandon their defense of Obamacare and instead pledge to “fix it.”


“In terms of Obamacare, don’t defend it, say it was flawed from the beginning, and we’re going to fix it,” said Lake at a poll briefing hosted by the Christian Science Monitor.

Maybe if they would have read the bill and actually publicly debate the bill, they wouldn't have been too damned stupid to know that it was seriously flawed from the beginning.

However, that was not the purpose. It was bait and switch. Ram through whatever they could and then refuse to ever repeal it and hold the nation hostage to their flawed law and leave them two options, live with the terrible bill we forced upon you or "fix" it the way we, you know the ones that passed this flawed law, say it should be "fixed" because we have such a great track record on this front.

Although, bait and switch is probably the wrong analogy. It was ram it down your throat and then switch.

If you don't like it, well Charlie's thread on the leftist response to the 2nd amendment tells you what you can do if you don't like Obamacare.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:12 am

For some reason I think the voting public is going to give the D's a giant F U come election night. I love how they are so desperately trying to make excuses and delay the law so it won't take them out of power. This really is about them getting what they feel good about, despite the disaster it is.

They are doubling down on the stupid they shoved through and still hope to stay in power. The D's didn't learn a thing during Clintons presidency about mid-term elections. They are repeating the same behavior that lost them control.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:51 am

Obama has a simple implementation plan for Obamacare.

Why do you think he is delaying the implementations of such a "vital" law?

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Of course, I just don't think few that know how bad it is really have the strength to continue the fight any longer.

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Most are just the crippled duck in the retrievers mouth looking blissfully ignorant of the predicament that they are in. Something that has always baffled me. A duck runs like hell to try to escape, but once they get caught, they just surrender and enjoy the ride almost every time. A large fraction of humans seem prone to do the same.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby Rat Creek » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:58 am

Scauphunter,

I think you are wrong if you think Dems will behave any differently this time around. The phony independents might wake up, but I do not give much credit to the average citizen who does not realize that the Affordable Care Act and Obamacare are the same thing. :huh:

The average democrat voter is so uninformed or ill informed that they will buy anything coming out of the mouth of a person with a D after their name or on CNN. I have neighbors who fit this mold exactly. Complete fools who do show up at the voting booth.

I have already heard ads from the same people who shoved this down our throats claiming they are "fighting" to fix this terrible law. They sound as if they never backed it to begin with. The useful idiots will believe them and do what they always do - walk into the booth and look for Ds. :no:

The only hope is that conservatives do not screw us again as they did in November 2012 by staying home and having a hissy fit that the republican was not conservative enough. That gave us Obama for another term.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:40 am

I think you are right about a certain significant percentage of the D and R based electorates who listen to sound bites and vote on them. There is a significant and growing segment of the populace that is getting more and more tired of politicians and their behavior. As we become more and move divided as a nation the independant voters and swing voters become more and more important in an election. Those are the people the D's are desperately trying to keep in their pocket. They are the folks who are going to flip the D's the bird and send them packing.

Die hard R's and D's prove that you cannot fix stupid. They also prove you can most definitely double down on stupid. The established R's think running Jeb Bush is a good idea? Really? :fingerhead:
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:58 am

I heard a very good sign if true for the upcoming midterm.

The Democrat Governor of Illinois is going to propose that the "temporary" 67% increase in Illinois personal income tax be made permanent. If he does that, I don't see how Republicans don't get at least a seat or two that they otherwise would not have in Congress. It may even be enough to get us a Republican Governor. We are going to have an open class warfare election this fall. I doubt it rids the nation of **** Durbin or Illinois of a Democrat stranglehold on government, but every little bit helps.

Speaking of stupid Republicans.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-kass-met-0326-20140326,0,1217524.column
The other day, the moderate Kirk was asked if he would campaign for his own party's nominee, conservative Jim Oberweis, who is running against slippery Democratic incumbent Durbin.


"I'm gonna be protecting my relationship with **** and not launching into a partisan jihad that hurts our partnership to both pull together for Illinois," Kirk said.

So when the Democrats run a challenger against him when he is up for reelection, is that a partisan jihad? Of course not, it's only when Republicans challenge Democrats. Image douchebag idiot moron.

So if Durbin campaigns for Kirk's challenger, would that hurt their partnership? Of course not, so I guess Kirk is saying Durbin is a vindictive baby that is offended by having to stand for election. OK, that's probably true. It seems like a stereotypical leftist to me. However, it does raise the question of how that is not a one-sided partnership nor how keeping that type of person in power is good of Illinois or America?

It almost made me sick having to vote for Kirk. It was a typical Illinois election. Option A - corrupt politician. Option B - lying idiot politician. The lying idiot won to my surprise.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby Rat Creek » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:32 pm

Bipartisanship is defined as Republicans caving to Democrats. It never goes the other way. :no:
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:40 pm

And obstructionism is when Republicans refuse to cave to Democrats. Again, it never goes the other way :no:
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:42 pm

Of course, no matter whether bipartisanism or obstructionism, failed or otherwise, all bad things are the Republicans fault and all good things are the Democrats. :rolleyes:
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:46 pm

If you tell the lie often enough it becomes truth. The D's are just better at playing the blame game.
Last edited by ScaupHunter on Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:04 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:If you tell the lie often enough it become truth. The D's are just better at playing the blame game.

They are definitely better at playing politics, but the Demos are playing with horrible cards. Otherwise, Republicans would never win.

Too many of the Republicans that run are just too stupid to reject playing the game under the Democrat terms.

Look at Kirk. He's even afraid to campaign for the Republican in the U.S. Senate race because of his fear of what the Democrat would do to the state of Illinois apparently out of spite over the Republican daring to campaign for his Republican opponent.

And the Democrat voters are too stupid to realize what the Democrat politicians are willing to do to win. Obamacare was supposed to help people and not hurt anyone. It has hurt millions and helped relatively few. They like to include every adult-child that should be self sufficient that is mooching off his parents because they pay his premium by including him on their policy. I never went uninsured when I was that age, so it is just silly to include all of them, when most of them would do just fine on their own. But lying is sadly an effective political strategy with no risk if you are a Democrat.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby nitram » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:28 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:If you tell the lie often enough it become truth. The D's are just better at playing the blame game.



It's also pretty handy whenever 90+% of the consumable media blindly perpetuates your BS.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:36 pm

That is what happens when a corrupt government allows the media to be exempted from laws and controlled by their supportors, financial patrons, and sycophants. Why do you think the MSM vilfies and hates on Fox so much. Nothing worse to a monopoly on control and beliefs of the people than an actual opposition group with a real voice calling BS on everything you are saying.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby dudejcb » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:13 pm

Rat Creek wrote:Bipartisanship is defined as Republicans caving to Democrats. It never goes the other way. :no:

what rock have you been under?
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:27 am

dudejcb wrote:
Rat Creek wrote:Bipartisanship is defined as Republicans caving to Democrats. It never goes the other way. :no:

what rock have you been under?

It's all perspective, like a typical liberal there is a rock between the two of you and you arrogantly assume that you are not on the wrong side of that rock. Come out from under the rock and join us on top in the light.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby Rat Creek » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:08 am

“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.” - Ronald Reagan


I will say this for libs. They have great confidence that they are correct, even when all the evidence indicates otherwise. That is why they always double down on Big Gov for everything. They cannot possibly be wrong in their basic assumptions. :huh:

Obamacare is just the latest. By every measure, it was a horrible idea to begin with. By every measure, it is a horrible failure. Yet, the useful idiots want it fixed by the same hacks who created it. Brilliance on display. :no:
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:30 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:And now a Democrat pollster is telling Democrats to admit that it always was a bait and switch.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2546236
One of the nation's leading Democratic pollsters and strategists is urging embattled House and Senate incumbents to abandon their defense of Obamacare and instead pledge to “fix it.”


“In terms of Obamacare, don’t defend it, say it was flawed from the beginning, and we’re going to fix it,” said Lake at a poll briefing hosted by the Christian Science Monitor.

Maybe if they would have read the bill and actually publicly debate the bill, they wouldn't have been too damned stupid to know that it was seriously flawed from the beginning.

However, that was not the purpose. It was bait and switch. Ram through whatever they could and then refuse to ever repeal it and hold the nation hostage to their flawed law and leave them two options, live with the terrible bill we forced upon you or "fix" it the way we, you know the ones that passed this flawed law, say it should be "fixed" because we have such a great track record on this front.

Although, bait and switch is probably the wrong analogy. It was ram it down your throat and then switch.

If you don't like it, well Charlie's thread on the leftist response to the 2nd amendment tells you what you can do if you don't like Obamacare.

And of course the "fix" will be single payor....just like we said ALL ALONG!
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:33 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:And now a Democrat pollster is telling Democrats to admit that it always was a bait and switch.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2546236
One of the nation's leading Democratic pollsters and strategists is urging embattled House and Senate incumbents to abandon their defense of Obamacare and instead pledge to “fix it.”


“In terms of Obamacare, don’t defend it, say it was flawed from the beginning, and we’re going to fix it,” said Lake at a poll briefing hosted by the Christian Science Monitor.

Maybe if they would have read the bill and actually publicly debate the bill, they wouldn't have been too damned stupid to know that it was seriously flawed from the beginning.

However, that was not the purpose. It was bait and switch. Ram through whatever they could and then refuse to ever repeal it and hold the nation hostage to their flawed law and leave them two options, live with the terrible bill we forced upon you or "fix" it the way we, you know the ones that passed this flawed law, say it should be "fixed" because we have such a great track record on this front.

Although, bait and switch is probably the wrong analogy. It was ram it down your throat and then switch.

If you don't like it, well Charlie's thread on the leftist response to the 2nd amendment tells you what you can do if you don't like Obamacare.

And of course the "fix" will be single payor....just like we said ALL ALONG!

They never stop until they get what they want and then it's like the little yapping dog finally catching the car and we all end up as road kill.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby dudejcb » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:47 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
Rat Creek wrote:Bipartisanship is defined as Republicans caving to Democrats. It never goes the other way. :no:

what rock have you been under?

It's all perspective, like a typical liberal there is a rock between the two of you and you arrogantly assume that you are not on the wrong side of that rock. Come out from under the rock and join us on top in the light.
yes. I am the arrogant one. Having a good self image is important ... for ugly people and conservatives. :grooving:

Back to RC: I was not aware that there was a ton of R's caving to D's going on. I thought the R's had finally figured out that holding their breath and stomping their feet at every turn wasn't gaining them any popularity, and the only one's who appreciated this UN-statesmenlike behavior were the self-centered TEA PARTY minority faction. Ted Cruz is a prime example.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby SpinnerMan » Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:41 am

dudejcb wrote:yes. I am the arrogant one.
Admitting it is the first step :clapping:

dudejcb wrote:Having a good self image is important ... for ugly people and conservatives. :grooving:

Good thing you have a good self image. It is important for you.

Too bad you are not a conservative like me. :hi:
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby beretta24 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:05 am

dudejcb wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
Rat Creek wrote:Bipartisanship is defined as Republicans caving to Democrats. It never goes the other way. :no:

what rock have you been under?

It's all perspective, like a typical liberal there is a rock between the two of you and you arrogantly assume that you are not on the wrong side of that rock. Come out from under the rock and join us on top in the light.
yes. I am the arrogant one. Having a good self image is important ... for ugly people and conservatives. :grooving:

Back to RC: I was not aware that there was a ton of R's caving to D's going on. I thought the R's had finally figured out that holding their breath and stomping their feet at every turn wasn't gaining them any popularity, and the only one's who appreciated this UN-statesmenlike behavior were the self-centered TEA PARTY minority faction. Ted Cruz is a prime example.

The game changed the day the Pres signed the ACA into law without ONE SINGLE Republican on board because it was hurried through without debate. It had massive issues that couldn't be dressed up as anything but a massive tax increase so they couldn't wait.

In my mind, Obama lost all right to cry foul over Republicans stonewalling him from that day forward.
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Re: Bait and Switch

Postby Glimmerjim » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:09 am

[ quote="dudejcb"]
SpinnerMan wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
Rat Creek wrote:Bipartisanship is defined as Republicans caving to Democrats. It never goes the other way. :no:

what rock have you been under?

It's all perspective, like a typical liberal there is a rock between the two of you and you arrogantly assume that you are not on the wrong side of that rock. Come out from under the rock and join us on top in the light.
yes. I am the arrogant one. Having a good self image is important ... for ugly people and conservatives. :grooving:

Back to RC: I was not aware that there was a ton of R's caving to D's going on. I thought the R's had finally figured out that holding their breath and stomping their feet at every turn wasn't gaining them any popularity, and the only one's who appreciated this UN-statesmenlike behavior were the self-centered TEA PARTY minority faction. Ted Cruz is a prime example.[/quote]
The game changed the day the Pres signed the ACA into law without ONE SINGLE Republican on board because it was hurried through without debate. It had massive issues that couldn't be dressed up as anything but a massive tax increase so they couldn't wait.

beretta24 wrote: In my mind, Obama lost all right to cry foul over Republicans stonewalling him from that day forward.

The R's had vowed to stonewall Obama prior to the first day of his administration. So, when in Rome....
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