Common Core math Problem..

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Common Core math Problem..

Postby charlie beard » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:00 pm

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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:44 pm

They need to take a long step back, look at a math book from 1975 and just use that as the common core math.

Someone clearly allowed a social worker, a lawyer, and a doctorate of psychology write that math problem. :hammer:
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:53 pm

You should have subtract the hundreds (300)
427 - 327 - 227 - 127

then subtract the tens (10), this is where you went wrong.

127 to 117

then subtracted the ones (6)

117 - 116 - 115 - 114 - 113 - 112 - 111

I've heard about this, but had not seen it before.

It's actually not a bad way to do the math in your head, IF YOU GET IT!

My biggest criticism of teaching math has always been that you need to teach MANY different ways to solve the same problem.

Teach both the standard way and all the many other ways. All they are doing is changing

427-316 to 427-300-10-6 and solving it sequentially as 427-316=427-300-10-6=127-10-6=117-6=111

This is just one of many ways to solve it. Each kid has to find what clicks for them, while some things will be total confusion as this was to the Frustrated Parent.

This is really just doing subtraction by counting on your fingers, which I admit sometimes, with a lot of distractions, I will do just that so I don't lose track of what I am doing. I often have about 10 different ways to solve a math problem and use whatever is most convenient. Most people only need one, but it has to be one you understand which is not necessarily the one the kid next to you understands. However, when you have teachers that don't really understand math, how on earth can they try many different ways until each individual kid finds what works for him?
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:03 pm

My youngest daughter was failing in math a couple of years ago, and still doesn't like it and struggles now and then. When I took the time to look over how they were teaching things at her school and had to go down and talk to the teacher and the principle. There are simple ways to do math, and hard ways. For some reason they wanted to teach the hard ways and not cover the simpler methods.

I got that problem straightened out and sat Abby down to go over what she was struggling with. It two nights of about 3 hours to get he caught up and her brain back on the math track. Now she just ignores the teacher when they get all theoretical or teach stupid methods. She comes home and asks how to do the math. I teacher her one or two ways that are quick and painless and she gets her work done.

Again, they need to step it back to about 1970's math style and just teach it as it was taught. There is zero reason to teach math the way that questions was written. Common core should be just that common! Use the proved quick and easy methods for learning math and teach a couple easy alternatives for solving the problems.
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby ohioboy » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:38 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:My youngest daughter was failing in math a couple of years ago, and still doesn't like it and struggles now and then. When I took the time to look over how they were teaching things at her school and had to go down and talk to the teacher and the principle. There are simple ways to do math, and hard ways. For some reason they wanted to teach the hard ways and not cover the simpler methods.

I got that problem straightened out and sat Abby down to go over what she was struggling with. It two nights of about 3 hours to get he caught up and her brain back on the math track. Now she just ignores the teacher when they get all theoretical or teach stupid methods. She comes home and asks how to do the math. I teacher her one or two ways that are quick and painless and she gets her work done.

Again, they need to step it back to about 1970's math style and just teach it as it was taught. There is zero reason to teach math the way that questions was written. Common core should be just that common! Use the proved quick and easy methods for learning math and teach a couple easy alternatives for solving the problems.

i would say this is simple. but only if you see shapes (i do and got low grades because i did not do it the "old" way). SH, have your daughter look at it without the note. she might get it right away.

this was argued here before, but the idea of how you get there does not matter. get the answer, get the credit. wish my math classes were like that. (unless i am completely not understanding the ccss math, which is possible)
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:47 pm

ohioboy wrote:this was argued here before, but the idea of how you get there should not matter. get the answer, get the credit. wish my math classes were like that. (unless i am completely not understanding the ccss math, which is possible)

If I understood my brother, he has a math degree and couldn't follow my niece's math homework, they have to do it the prescribe way.

ScaupHunter wrote:Again, they need to step it back to about 1970's math style and just teach it as it was taught.
I disagree. While it worked for you and it is not surprising that your daughter's thinks about things similar to you and it worked for her, but it didn't work for everybody. Math is so important, we need to present multiple different ways because people see it differently and until they can see it for themselves, they won't truly understand it and will simply be memorizing and not understanding. They should keep it and add to it. Not go back to just that nor scrap it. More alternatives mean more students will find an approach that they understand and from that foundation, they can move to understand more approach and more complex problems and get a broader and deeper understanding.
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby goldfish » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:00 am

And in the mean time, you confuse the other 90 percent of the kids and take 4 times as long to get thru a lesson all so that no kid can be left behind

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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:41 am

goldfish wrote:And in the mean time, you confuse the other 90 percent of the kids and take 4 times as long to get thru a lesson all so that no kid can be left behind

You don't throw everything at them all at once. You start with what has been shown to work for the most, in that regard, I agree with SH and they never should have changed. However, when you see kids not getting it, you give them alternatives. It's not like we live in the internet age and they could ever have an app for that. There are many ways to present the alternative methods and not all have to be to the entire class.
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby ohioboy » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:08 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
goldfish wrote:And in the mean time, you confuse the other 90 percent of the kids and take 4 times as long to get thru a lesson all so that no kid can be left behind

You don't throw everything at them all at once. You start with what has been shown to work for the most, in that regard, I agree with SH and they never should have changed. However, when you see kids not getting it, you give them alternatives. It's not like we live in the internet age and they could ever have an app for that. There are many ways to present the alternative methods and not all have to be to the entire class.

i actually just went to a big meeting on this exact thing (incorporating alternative teaching teachniques). it is a lot of work on the teacher to not only get the kids who are ahead and behind and keep them engaged and moving forward, but to also teach the masses who are just regular. khan academy is one way i know that teachers are able to help the kids who are behind and ahead-the only issue is you need computers for each kid that is going to be using the khan academy stuff. so far khan is only big in math, but i know they are expanding.
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:58 am

That is the direction we should be moving. Figuring out how to get the efficiency from the technology, well, that's what all these advanced degrees in education should be figuring out. Although as far as I can tell, mostly those are just done by people that want to be principle and have their subordinates call them Dr. to show how awesome they think they are.

I have no experience in what they really study. However, when I went to my sister-in-laws college graduation where she got a degree in social work from what I think is supposed to be a very good school, two things jumped out at me as giant red flags. First, I think 3/4th of the students graduated with honors. Seriously, are you friggin' kidding me. Second was the research topics of the Ph.D.'s. I suspect these extremely low academic standards are prevalent throughout the education/social work/etc. culture.
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby assateague » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:58 am

The math is absolutely horrible. I'll have a problem every couple weeks that I cannot make sense out of, no matter how hard I try. The fact that it's second grade math tells me that this should never happen.

Furthermore, I have no idea what they do in school, but it's not much. My youngest missed 3 days, and I picked up all her class work and homework so she could do it the last day out of school. There were maybe 4 math worksheets, with 3 word problems per, no reading assignment, and copying of spelling words 3 times. That's it. For 3 days. Took her an hour and a half to do it. So what is all the other time taken up on? That's 19 1/2 hours of school missed, and it took her a little over an hour. I find it ridiculous that so much time is wasted, or that those who home-school are somehow shorting their children. Actually, that mindset is insulting.
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby ohioboy » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:18 am

assateague wrote:The math is absolutely horrible. I'll have a problem every couple weeks that I cannot make sense out of, no matter how hard I try. The fact that it's second grade math tells me that this should never happen.

Furthermore, I have no idea what they do in school, but it's not much. My youngest missed 3 days, and I picked up all her class work and homework so she could do it the last day out of school. There were maybe 4 math worksheets, with 3 word problems per, no reading assignment, and copying of spelling words 3 times. That's it. For 3 days. Took her an hour and a half to do it. So what is all the other time taken up on? That's 19 1/2 hours of school missed, and it took her a little over an hour. I find it ridiculous that so much time is wasted, or that those who home-school are somehow shorting their children. Actually, that mindset is insulting.

shadow your daughter for a day or two.

or come watch me as I have asked.

it is always easy from that keyboard to cry foul.
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Re: Common Core math Problem..

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:24 am

Ohio,

I doubt you are the norm for many teachers. I have two daughters in High School and the only classes that challenge them at all are the AB classes. Now mind the work is not actually harder they just stack it on them. Their other classes are not particularly challenging. One daughter struggles in math and I spend some time several nights a week working with her on it. I invariably teach her an easier and quicker method of getting the work done properly. Her teacher and I came to an agreement this year just like the last few she has had. They will stop trying to force her to do math their way and when she uses solid math principles and methods she gets the points. She simply does not learn math with the new ( read stupid ) methods of teaching math. Yet she understands and easily works with the older straight forward methods I was trained under years ago.

Math is not the place to be teaching creative thinking. That belongs in other classes. Math should be taught in the one or two most direct and easy methods with memorization as a focus in early schooling. Why? It has worked for centuries and millenia. It did not magically stop working when social workers and do gooders took over the system.
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