Sea Level Rise

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Sea Level Rise

Postby Duck_Stank » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:54 pm

Alright guys, I've been writing a large report for a class in college on sea level rise and it's affect on tribal cultures, indigenous people, whether they are affected directly or not etc. Climate change is always brought up. Is it that big of a deal? Is man the only driving force behind these changes? I have my opinions, I'd like to read others and possibly gain more ideas. Thanks.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby Glimmerjim » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:52 am

Duck_Stank wrote:Alright guys, I've been writing a large report for a class in college on sea level rise and it's affect on tribal cultures, indigenous people, whether they are affected directly or not etc. Climate change is always brought up. Is it that big of a deal? Is man the only driving force behind these changes? I have my opinions, I'd like to read others and possibly gain more ideas. Thanks.

I have no idea if that is the only precipitator of the rising seas, etc. However, an overwhelming majority of the world's climatology scientists believe it is a contributing factor, so who am I to either call it simply a self-serving conspiracy or to say based upon my self-designated extensive knowledge and expertise that they are wrong? Perhaps if I had an agenda it would sway my opinion. I have observed that behavior previously.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby assateague » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:33 am

No.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby SpinnerMan » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:36 am

Duck_Stank wrote:Alright guys, I've been writing a large report for a class in college on sea level rise and it's affect on tribal cultures, indigenous people, whether they are affected directly or not etc. Climate change is always brought up. Is it that big of a deal? Is man the only driving force behind these changes? I have my opinions, I'd like to read others and possibly gain more ideas. Thanks.

Two things.

First, there is nothing wrong with telling your professor what they want to hear in order to get an A. It's not the CI forum where looking for controversy is the name of the game. So in that way, you must not just seek facts, but learn to read your professor. That is as much a vital skill you take away from college as any of the others. Something that may not be apparent here, but that I am generally pretty good at. You can do that without being dishonest if you are clever, intelligent, and well informed.

Second, the question sound like a Rorschach test and not a scientific analysis. The indigenous people in interior Canada far from the ocean are not effected directly in anyway. So unless you have been given a lot more direction, the answer is unquestionably that it depends. You could take the angle that whenever there is change, there are nearly always winners, losers, and the negligibly impacted. You don't need to tie sea level rise to climate change, but simply accept it as a given for this academic exercise. Define ways that sea level rise would help, hurt, and be generally irrelevant to different populations.

Hurt is the obvious, but I'd go further.
Help is not so obvious, but where did that water come from? Cold climates that are now warmer and less ice covered.
Negligible - no ice, no ocean, no impact of sea level rise (not climate change, but just the sea level rise).

Then you can find indigenous groups that fit into these categories, numbers, locations, etc.

I think that would be interesting and informative and sidesteps the political correctness and the entire issue of the cause or whether or not it is even real, which if I understand you is not the point of the assignment.

If you want to get into the issue of cause, I think there is a lot of data that looks like this. With a steady rise that cannot be attributed to CO2 since it began before it was possible and continues on the same slope. It is a scientific hypothesis that has yet to be confirmed or disproved.

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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby clampdaddy » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:36 am

Sounds like your professor is fishing for something.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby ScaupHunter » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:41 pm

Global warming is this centuries biggest fraud. Climatologists are the people perpetuating that fraud. Avoid global warming entirely and stick to facts. Can you focus the report onto small groupings of people? Islands in the South Pacific are very impacted. Inuit are impacted. Inland Indian Tribes are not.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby Duck_Stank » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:23 pm

Thanks, and yes spin you're right about reading them. It just gets old after awhile always holding your tongue. I will try and avoid it and stick to facts I think as scaup mentioned. Less room for politics.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby Duck_Stank » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:31 pm

Or, I could entertain the climate idea and note differences in world views and how these world views determine man's treatment towards nature. Maybe a machine view like ours compared to their spirit view on things etc. Funny you mentioned tribal people in Canada spin, we actually discussed the Tlicho Dene in the class along with others.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby boney fingers » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:46 pm

Would be kinda nice to have less of a drive to go to the beach or kill Eiders. Maybe the gas I will save hauling my boat with an SUV will drive the water levels down.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:00 pm

Frankly I wish it would rise about 30 feet and completely submerge every idiot that ever built on the beach. They had to know they were going to get flooded sooner or later and built there anyway. Now it is some kind of crisis when a City like New Orleans that is below sea level gets flooded and we are all supposed to pay to save them.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby NVDuckSlapper » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:36 pm

Man your citations are gonna be hilarious when you have duckhuntingchat.com as a source!
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby ohioboy » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:53 pm

NVDuckSlapper wrote:Man your citations are gonna be hilarious when you have duckhuntingchat.com as a source!

i use it for work sometimes.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby Glimmerjim » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:16 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:Frankly I wish it would rise about 30 feet and completely submerge every idiot that ever built on the beach. They had to know they were going to get flooded sooner or later and built there anyway. Now it is some kind of crisis when a City like New Orleans that is below sea level gets flooded and we are all supposed to pay to save them.

Scaup, the problem is not the affluent that will consider it as a minor inconvenience when their beach house collapses into the eroding shoreline, it is the indigenous peoples in low lying areas everywhere in the world that will pay the price. A good example in our own country of that was New Orleans. Do you feel the response would have been the same had it been Long Island or San Diego?
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:51 am

Glimmerjim wrote:it is the impoverished indigenous peoples in low lying areas everywhere in the world that will pay the price.
FIFY. Impoverished people always pay the price. Being poor sucks because it gives you no resources to deal with change so you have to hope there is none.

Glimmerjim wrote:A good example in our own country of that was New Orleans. Do you feel the response would have been the same had it been Long Island or San Diego?

What indigenous people are you referring to? :huh:

But yes, the response was pretty much the same on an individual by individual basis after Sandy. Those that take care of themselves took care of themselves and those that rely on the government suffered needlessly. The difference was in scale, but not in the response.

People have a right to take the risk of living in poverty if they want. Indigenous people are no more children than the people of New Orleans. If they don't take care of themselves, they won't be take care of and shouldn't be if you believe they are the same in every way as you and me. Now if you believe all people are not the same, well that's just scary in so many ways.

However, what are we talking about in regards to sea level rise? Adapting over GENERATIONS!!!!!!! We are not taking about a hurricane with only a few days of warning, which is more than adequate for anyone in the hurricane areas to get out of the way. I have got out of the way of many hurricanes over the years. We are not talking about a tsunami with essentially zero warning. We are talking about a slow rise over generations. If you want to help, help these people be more prosperous. If they choose not to, well, that is what freedom is all about. Free to choose how to deal with the risks of life. I will hopefully some day live where a tsunami could wipe me out. If it does, I knew the risk. If a hurricane comes, :hi: I'll be back later. If the sea level rises, well, I'll likely be dead before it matters since it will happen so slowly over such a long period of time. At 3.15 mm/yr that is 1 foot per CENTURY. Even double that and there is plenty of time to adapt.

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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby Glimmerjim » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:13 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:it is the impoverished indigenous peoples in low lying areas everywhere in the world that will pay the price.
FIFY. Impoverished people always pay the price. Being poor sucks because it gives you no resources to deal with change so you have to hope there is none.

Glimmerjim wrote:A good example in our own country of that was New Orleans. Do you feel the response would have been the same had it been Long Island or San Diego?

What indigenous people are you referring to? :huh:

But yes, the response was pretty much the same on an individual by individual basis after Sandy. Those that take care of themselves took care of themselves and those that rely on the government suffered needlessly. The difference was in scale, but not in the response.

People have a right to take the risk of living in poverty if they want. Indigenous people are no more children than the people of New Orleans. If they don't take care of themselves, they won't be take care of and shouldn't be if you believe they are the same in every way as you and me. Now if you believe all people are not the same, well that's just scary in so many ways.

However, what are we talking about in regards to sea level rise? Adapting over GENERATIONS!!!!!!! We are not taking about a hurricane with only a few days of warning, which is more than adequate for anyone in the hurricane areas to get out of the way. I have got out of the way of many hurricanes over the years. We are not talking about a tsunami with essentially zero warning. We are talking about a slow rise over generations. If you want to help, help these people be more prosperous. If they choose not to, well, that is what freedom is all about. Free to choose how to deal with the risks of life. I will hopefully some day live where a tsunami could wipe me out. If it does, I knew the risk. If a hurricane comes, :hi: I'll be back later. If the sea level rises, well, I'll likely be dead before it matters since it will happen so slowly over such a long period of time. At 3.15 mm/yr that is 1 foot per CENTURY. Even double that and there is plenty of time to adapt.


Those are all good points, Spinner. When I segued to New Orleans from speaking of indigenous people I was really referring to what you added to my post, the poverty factor. When you refer to the 1 foot per century rise, you are, I think, simply extrapolating from the current rise. We don't know that it will continue to rise at the same, or higher or lower rates. I do believe that even a 1 foot rise would have, if not destructive, then at the least hugely disrupting effects on many in the world. I concede, however, that I am not in possession of hard data to back that up. It is simply an opinion I have formed from reading a few relevant articles.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:31 am

Glimmerjim wrote:When you refer to the 1 foot per century rise, you are, I think, simply extrapolating from the current rise.
Took it from the number on the graph I provided.

Glimmerjim wrote:We don't know that it will continue to rise at the same, or higher or lower rates.
Granted, but the current rate predates any impact by man :huh: Evil bitch mother nature is to blame so far. Granted there are well known hypothesis that blame others for yet unseen future increases.

Glimmerjim wrote:I do believe that even a 1 foot rise would have, if not destructive, then at the least hugely disrupting effects on many in the world.
EVERY major technological advance has had hugely disrupting effect on many in the world. So unless you are a Luddite, hugely disruptive effects on many in the world is not an inherently negative argument. In fact we just elected a President on the promise of change that would be highly disruptive to many in the world and he has delivered and also proves that some hugely disruptive effects are very negative.

It's all about the pro's and con's assuming it is manmade. So far, there is no indication that this sea level rise is, so what would you have us do?

Just be clear, I NEVER said it would not disrupt things, but only that the time period to adapt is far greater than what is needed by a prosperous society to adapt. This will cause society to minimize (not eliminate) the negative effects and maximize the positive ones. Exactly how that will happen. Same way human nature and human ingenuity have been adapting to all manner of disruption. We do it quite well when we are free to do so.

Just look back one century and look where we are today. Anybody that thinks we know where we will be a century from now is truly ignorant of history.

The solution to the problems of New Orleans is not more government. It is more freedom and responsibility combined with unyielding education standards that force kids to learn before they advance whether they or their parents like it or not and what they learn largely can be expected to have practical value to many of them.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:15 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:Frankly I wish it would rise about 30 feet and completely submerge every idiot that ever built on the beach. They had to know they were going to get flooded sooner or later and built there anyway. Now it is some kind of crisis when a City like New Orleans that is below sea level gets flooded and we are all supposed to pay to save them.

Scaup, the problem is not the affluent that will consider it as a minor inconvenience when their beach house collapses into the eroding shoreline, it is the indigenous peoples in low lying areas everywhere in the world that will pay the price. A good example in our own country of that was New Orleans. Do you feel the response would have been the same had it been Long Island or San Diego?



Actually Jim, in most of the world the dirt poor will adapt just fine. They will either move their grass hut further inland, build a new floating house, or move the floating house they presently use inland a bit. The majority of the worlds poor do not have the same issues we do in American. They are living in second and third world conditions. Moving a bit to continue living that way is not that heavy of a burden. Take a South American native on the Amazon River. Would a 1 foot sea level rise mean anything to them? Nope. The already live on floating houses and get massive flooding every year. How about food availability? More estuaries and widened existing estuaries would produce more food in the long run, etc.... We do not know that rising sea levels is an overall bad thing. Unless of course you want to just talk about property values and damage. There are a million other factors that could make it a net positive.

Americans and Europeans are the ones who have major issues with sea level change. That is based in our constant building of homes and businesses in low lying areas that can be flooded.
Last edited by ScaupHunter on Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby Dingbatter 2 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:23 am

What about geological subduction? In many areas the land is sinking, not the ocean rising.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby Glimmerjim » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:10 pm

quote="SpinnerMan"] Just look back one century and look where we are today. Anybody that thinks we know where we will be a century from now is truly ignorant of history. [/quote]


Truer words were never spoken, Spinner. I often think of how much advance there has been in just the last 30 years. And the rate of change is increasing exponentially, or at least it strikes me as so. 100 years...you're right. We haven't a clue.
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby ohioboy » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:33 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:quote="SpinnerMan"] Just look back one century and look where we are today. Anybody that thinks we know where we will be a century from now is truly ignorant of history.



Truer words were never spoken, Spinner. I often think of how much advance there has been in just the last 30 years. And the rate of change is increasing exponentially, or at least it strikes me as so. 100 years...you're right. We haven't a clue.[/quote]
:ditto:

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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby clampdaddy » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:31 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:Frankly I wish it would rise about 30 feet and completely submerge every idiot that ever built on the beach. They had to know they were going to get flooded sooner or later and built there anyway. Now it is some kind of crisis when a City like New Orleans that is below sea level gets flooded and we are all supposed to pay to save them.

Scaup, the problem is not the affluent that will consider it as a minor inconvenience when their beach house collapses into the eroding shoreline, it is the indigenous peoples in low lying areas everywhere in the world that will pay the price. A good example in our own country of that was New Orleans. Do you feel the response would have been the same had it been Long Island or San Diego?



Actually Jim, in most of the world the dirt poor will adapt just fine. They will either move their grass hut further inland, build a new floating house, or move the floating house they presently use inland a bit. The majority of the worlds poor do not have the same issues we do in American. They are living in second and third world conditions. Moving a bit to continue living that way is not that heavy of a burden. Take a South American native on the Amazon River. Would a 1 foot sea level rise mean anything to them? Nope. The already live on floating houses and get massive flooding every year. How about food availability? More estuaries and widened existing estuaries would produce more food in the long run, etc.... We do not know that rising sea levels is an overall bad thing. Unless of course you want to just talk about property values and damage. There are a million other factors that could make it a net positive.

Americans and Europeans are the ones who have major issues with sea level change. That is based in our constant building of homes and businesses in low lying areas that can be flooded.

Persactly. As long as there have been humans walking this earth, they have been constantly (slowly) adapting to the changes in climate/environment. Why should the people of this century be any different?
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby aunt betty » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:29 pm

Our education system is ran by the same government we distrust so much...
Do you think maybe it's possible the entire system is set up to brainwash people into towing the line?


Naw...that's just AB paranoid talk.

Ever meet someone very successful who swears everything the govt. says is true? My father is one.
So naive yet he has tons of cash.
I guess you just gotta start believing the crap they preach, errr, teach in church, errr, public school. :lol3:
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby ohioboy » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:04 pm

aunt betty wrote:Our education system is ran by the same government we distrust so much...
Do you think maybe it's possible the entire system is set up to brainwash people into towing the line?


Naw...that's just AB paranoid talk.

Ever meet someone very successful who swears everything the govt. says is true? My father is one.
So naive yet he has tons of cash.
I guess you just gotta start believing the crap they preach, errr, teach in church, errr, public school. :lol3:

is it wrong to make my students call me mr. jesus?
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:40 pm

Depends. Are they Muslims?
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Re: Sea Level Rise

Postby ohioboy » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:24 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:Depends. Are they Muslims?

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
some are. most are not.

i will try that out tomorrow. :fingerhead:
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