A Precursor of Things to Come?

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A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby nitram » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:52 pm

Before ObamaCare was passed or even considered as a bill, the federal government gained experience running a health system. For decades, it has run Veterans Affairs facilities catering to millions of war veterans, in essence setting up a parallel health system to that which non-veterans use. Hundreds of VA facilities across the country now treat our former servicemen and servicewomen.

Is it any wonder, then, that a VA hospital in the Phoenix area is attracting unwelcome attention for a scandal involving a “secret waiting list,” the topic of a recent CNN investigation? The way it worked was relatively simple: Veterans seeking treatment would receive a hard copy of their appointment information, but that information wasn't being saved to the VA's computerized system – no record of the appointment would be there, so no red flag would come up once a certain time period had passed. To outsiders and to higher-ups within the system, it appeared the Phoenix VA hospital was making significant inroads on providing timely appointments to those seeking treatment. In fact, many of those managing the hospital, including director Sharon Helman, received bonuses for their good work.

But for those veterans on the wrong side of the “secret waiting list” – a number ranging as high as 1,600 patients – the wait time was months, years, or in the case of one veteran documented in the CNN report, forever. Thomas Breen, 71, was one of at least 40 on this “secret waiting list” who died before follow-up treatment was given. Because he wasn't seen within the prescribed time frame, the Phoenix facility did what bureaucrats do best: cover their rear ends by not leaving a paper trail. The weeks stretched into two months, with Breen finally securing an appointment slated for 10 weeks after his initial complaint – but a week after he succumbed to his affliction. Yet the wait even extends to the VA's internal investigation itself, which is scheduled to begin next week, months after the CNN investigation began.

It's worth asking whether this is the direction American health care will go for everyone, as the line between the government-provided VA health system and the private market for the rest of us begins to blur thanks to ObamaCare. Wait times are a common complaint in nations that have already gone down the road to socialized medicine, and doing whatever is needed to cover your behind is standard operating procedure for any government bureaucracy. Sadly, the two paths converged in Phoenix and hundreds of those who faithfully served our country have been betrayed by their government. Leftists mocked Sarah Palin for her “death panels” portrayal of ObamaCare, but it's not a laughing matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... v543LOnwLg
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby Glimmerjim » Thu May 01, 2014 1:27 am

Oh no! Nitram, you exposed a medical facility run by the Fed Govt with pending allegations of impropriety in billing! That certainly condemns the whole system, no question about it. Thank God there are no private medical facilities that have ever engaged in any double-billing, over-charging, performing unnecessary procedures, because that would surely damn the whole private industry as well. Then where would we turn?
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby nitram » Thu May 01, 2014 5:45 am

My post says nary a word about billing Jim. But I think if you give it even a mediocre effort, you should see the parallel between the notoriously poor health care provided by the Veterans Administration and your impending future as a health care patient of the United States Government.
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby goldfish » Thu May 01, 2014 6:16 am

From me personally speaking with people from other countries that have "socialized healthcare", they have had nothing but good things to say about it.

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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby beretta24 » Thu May 01, 2014 7:15 am

goldfish wrote:From me personally speaking with people from other countries that have "socialized healthcare", they have had nothing but good things to say about it.

Sent from a phancy fone

Because most have never experienced our health care. Where I am at now, ireland, there are two tiers. "Free" government healthcare that covers the basics, and you can by supplemental insurance for real healthcare. If you have a heart attack here everyone gets the same ride to the hospital, but if there are complications and you don't have the supplemental insurance you're SOL.

Why do wealthy people around the world come here for treatments? Because we have the best overall care and capability period.

The government could have required preexisting conditions and equality of charging with a 20 page or less bill. Instead we got a :censored: monster bill to hide the intention of driving us into a single payer system, in addition to major lies just to get it passed. It was fraud and people refuse to acknowledge it. It absolutely astounds me how willing people are to take it.
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby Glimmerjim » Thu May 01, 2014 1:35 pm

beretta24 wrote:
goldfish wrote:From me personally speaking with people from other countries that have "socialized healthcare", they have had nothing but good things to say about it.

Sent from a phancy fone

Because most have never experienced our health care. Where I am at now, ireland, there are two tiers. "Free" government healthcare that covers the basics, and you can by supplemental insurance for real healthcare. If you have a heart attack here everyone gets the same ride to the hospital, but if there are complications and you don't have the supplemental insurance you're SOL.

Why do wealthy people around the world come here for treatments? Because we have the best overall care and capability period.

The government could have required preexisting conditions and equality of charging with a 20 page or less bill. Instead we got a :censored: monster bill to hide the intention of driving us into a single payer system, in addition to major lies just to get it passed. It was fraud and people refuse to acknowledge it. It absolutely astounds me how willing people are to take it.

You're in Ireland, beretta!? Is that a permanent or temporary situation?
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby beretta24 » Thu May 01, 2014 1:52 pm

My company manufactures their stuff here because their corp tax rate is a lot lower, and they still speak english. I'm just over for a couple more weeks of work, and then a week of vacation with the wife and a stop in France on the way home.
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu May 01, 2014 2:25 pm

beretta24 wrote:Because most have never experienced our health care. Where I am at now, ireland, there are two tiers. "Free" government healthcare that covers the basics, and you can by supplemental insurance for real healthcare.
That is exactly how it was when I worked in France, granted that was 20 years ago. Part of the new employee package was an option to purchase supplemental health care which most people with a good job had.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304393704579528063516171576

With the unveiling of the Affordable Care Act's website, the public experienced a painful reminder of the consequences of the government's new authority over health care. While millions signed up for insurance, millions of others abruptly lost their existing coverage and access to their doctors because that coverage didn't fit new ObamaCare definitions.

Is this not true? Libs like to pretend like people are interchangable and if you screw one and help another, hey, it all looks good on the balance sheet, so tough luck for the collateral damage.

With the Affordable Care Act, the government has dramatically expanded its authority as final arbiter over health insurance and consequently over access to medical care. After the law's Medicaid expansion and with the population aging into Medicare eligibility, the 107 million under Medicaid or Medicare in 2013 will skyrocket to 135 million five years later, growing far faster than the ranks of the privately insured.

Yep 28 MILLION more people on welfare. That is not progress. That is failure. Is it not?

The hidden truth is just around the corner—those more dependent on public insurance, mostly the poor and middle class, will have limited access to medical care. About one-third of primary-care physicians and one-fourth of specialists have already completely closed their practices to Medicaid patients. Over 52% of physicians have already limited the access that Medicare patients have to their practices, or are planning to, according to a 2012 survey by Merritt Hawkins for the Physicians Foundation. More doctors than ever already refuse Medicaid and Medicare due to inadequate payments for care, and that trend will only accelerate as government lowers reimbursements.


At the same time, ObamaCare is squeezing out the middle class from affordable private insurance that correlates with far better disease outcomes than government insurance. By bloating coverage requirements and minimizing the consideration of risks fundamental to pricing insurance, the law has already increased premiums by 20%-200% in more than 40 states, according to a 2013 analysis by the Manhattan Institute's Avik Roy and others.

Less widely known is that inadequate reimbursement by government insurance to doctors substantially increases private-insurance prices. According to a December 2008 Milliman report presented by Will Fox and John Pickering, a shortfall of more than $88 billion in payments from Medicaid and Medicare beneficiaries added more than $1,500 extra a year in premiums and $1,800 extra in total out-of-pocket costs to every family of four with private insurance. With increasing enrollment into government insurance, private premiums will undoubtedly rise even more.

More government will fix that :sarcmark:

Meanwhile, concierge practices are increasing rapidly, as patients who can afford it, along with many top doctors, rush to avoid the problems of an increasingly restrictive health system. The American Academy of Private Physicians estimates that there are now about 4,400 concierge physicians, 30% more than last year. In a recent Merritt Hawkins survey, about 7% to 10% of physicians planned to transition to concierge or cash-only practices in the next one to three years.

Of course, the libs will insist that this must be banned and these private practices be nationalized in the name of fairness. After all working harder, smarter, and longer is not about providing food, shelter, and health care for your family. It's about greed. Every dope smoking loser that can't make it through one day of work should have access to the same health care as the guy that works 80 hours a week performing brain surgery at the highest level of skill in the country.

When all the rules are determined by politicians and bureaucrats, will it benefit the powerful or powerless? :huh:

The country has no idea how bad it will get when your cancer treatment has to compete for the same pot of money as every pork barrel project the politicians think they need to get reelected. We all know how incompetent they are, some seem to think that it is not a problem to let the incompetent run the health care system based on what they think is best for the next election cycle.
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby Glimmerjim » Thu May 01, 2014 4:31 pm

beretta24 wrote:My company manufactures their stuff here because their corp tax rate is a lot lower, and they still speak english. I'm just over for a couple more weeks of work, and then a week of vacation with the wife and a stop in France on the way home.

Wow! Sounds like a sweet life! Believe it or not, even as a self-professed liberal I am for MUCH lower corp tax rates. I think it simply takes money from the stockholder, the economy, and the working stiff.
Have fun on the vacation, beretta! And say hi to the wife for me! :lol3:
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby nitram » Sun May 04, 2014 5:49 pm

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or f-ing beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.- Al Swearengen
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby Bluesky2012 » Mon May 05, 2014 10:28 am

goldfish wrote:From me personally speaking with people from other countries that have "socialized healthcare", they have had nothing but good things to say about it.

Sent from a phancy fone


You must not have spoken to many people, especially those with opportunity to compare.

Even within the country, look at tricare. It is mandatory for military. It's bad. Many families chose to use the version of tricare the moves you to an off base doctor.

Let's expand that to the entire population versus the 1% who currently use it, and it will be bad.
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby clampdaddy » Mon May 05, 2014 10:52 am

beretta24 wrote:My company manufactures their stuff here because their corp tax rate is a lot lower, and they still speak english........

Well, imagine that. :huh: :lol3:
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby Rat Creek » Mon May 05, 2014 11:07 am

goldfish wrote:From me personally speaking with people from other countries that have "socialized healthcare", they have had nothing but good things to say about it.


I know several foreign nationals who have married Americans or who work for our multi-national company. Whether for national pride or because down deep, they are just socialist (or both), they rave about national healthcare, but get as much of their healthcare as possible while in the US. :huh:

My socialist bro-in-law who has worked maybe 30% of his life, as any good socialist would, just gushes about the wonders of the socialized medicine in Denmark. He blathers on about how people are a country’s most precious resource and must be cared for at “no expense” blah, blah, blah. Never mentions who is paying the bill. :no:

Yet, he is covered by his American wife’s policy through her American employer, and when he needs any medical attention, he goes for treatment here in the US. :rolleyes:

He is not the exception on this. I have lots of co-workers in countries with government healthcare. Our company provides the supplemental plans and in many cases, the people see American doctors each year for their check up or for procedures while they are working stateside. They are luck because they have a choice.

Now the truth of the matter is Obamacare is not healthcare, it is just a giant bill that forces companies and individuals to behave as Obama wants them to. It raises the expense of healthcare. My increase was $3K per year for the same plan. It also encourages as many people as possible to get on the Big Gov teat through Medicaid and subsidies. It is not healthcare, but a huge expansion of Big Gov. :mad:
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby cartervj » Mon May 05, 2014 8:29 pm

Rat Creek wrote:
goldfish wrote:From me personally speaking with people from other countries that have "socialized healthcare", they have had nothing but good things to say about it.



My socialist bro-in-law who has worked maybe 30% of his life, as any good socialist would, just gushes about the wonders of the socialized medicine in Denmark. He blathers on about how people are a country’s most precious resource and must be cared for at “no expense” blah, blah, blah. Never mentions who is paying the bill. :no:

Yet, he is covered by his American wife’s policy through her American employer, and when he needs any medical attention, he goes for treatment here in the US. :rolleyes:

He is not the exception on this. I have lots of co-workers in countries with government healthcare. Our company provides the supplemental plans and in many cases, the people see American doctors each year for their check up or for procedures while they are working stateside. They are luck because they have a choice.

Now the truth of the matter is Obamacare is not healthcare, it is just a giant bill that forces companies and individuals to behave as Obama wants them to. It raises the expense of healthcare. My increase was $3K per year for the same plan. It also encourages as many people as possible to get on the Big Gov teat through Medicaid and subsidies. It is not healthcare, but a huge expansion of Big Gov. :mad:


I shot a wedding for a gal that was marrying a guy from Denmark, his soon to be wife and family were devout Dems/ Socialist. I had the chance to ask him how much their taxes ran? It varied he said, 50-60% depending on national debt was his answer. I asked if they were moving back or staying in Country. They were staying along with several family members trying to move here. I asked why leave such a wonderful thing, kinda stumped them. :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Last time I talked with them several of the wedding party were in Country trying to become citizens. Guess where the wife and hubby are employed, a Liberal college. :thumbsup:
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby cartervj » Mon May 05, 2014 8:42 pm

and now 2 situations I came across today

First is a coworker that over the weekend hurt himself jumping onto shore from a fishing boat. Broke his upper leg bone or dislocated his hip, a loud pop when he hit shore. Instead of going to the ER he is waiting to go to a Dr tomorrow since his copay would be $150 at the ER. Plus his bill would end up running $500-600 best he can figure. This is after his State issued BC&BS insurance pays their share. Something changed since last year. :huh: He's an OCare supporter last I asked. We'll see if that changes.

The last guy that used his insurance this year, had a bill of $565 for using the ER for his eczema that has been really bad, 90% of his body effected.

Now compared to last year our boss spent 4 days in the hospital after an ER visit, his total bill was a little over $100.

Can any OCare supporter please explain this to me?

The other is a low income white couple, their son needs surgery for 2 situations. The father doesn't have insurance with his job yet. I thought AllKids would handle the situation. Now get this, they make too much for Medicaid and not enough for ALLkids. :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

ALLKids is a Medicaid program. Not sure f this came about from OCare but it's the first time I've heard of such. A friend's wife works for ALLKids so I'm gonna ask him this week what's the deal.
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Re: A Precursor of Things to Come?

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue May 06, 2014 8:14 am

Yep. Obummer Care fixed those dang fat cat medical facility managers. They aren't making millions a year and overcharging for medical care anymore! I am so glad the new Messiah could step in and save us all from those greedy thieves. :hammer:
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