Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

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Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby dudejcb » Mon May 05, 2014 9:03 pm

When the truth hurts, an effective alternative is to lie. A lot. And keep repeating it. A lot. Especially if your listener drones don't fact check or care to.

Republicans' response to health reform's success is to close their eyes and sling bad statistics.

On Thursday, House Republicans released a deliberately misleading report on the status of health reform, crudely rigging the numbers to sustain the illusion of failure in the face of unexpected success. Are you shocked?

You aren't, but you should be. Mainstream politicians didn't always try to advance their agenda through lies, damned lies and - in this case - bogus statistics. And the fact that this has become standard operating procedure for a major party bodes ill for America's future.

About that report: The really big policy news of 2014, at least so far, is the spectacular recovery of the Affordable Care Act from its stumbling start, thanks to an extraordinary late surge that took enrollment beyond early projections. The age mix of enrollees has improved; insurance companies are broadly satisfied with the risk pool. Multiple independent surveys confirm that the percentage of Americans without health insurance has already declined substantially, and there's every reason to believe that over the next two years the act will meet its overall goals, except in states that refuse to expand Medicaid.

This is a problem for Republicans, who have bet the ranch on the proposition that health reform is an unfixable failure. "Nobody can make Obamacare work," declared Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, a couple of weeks ago (when it was already obvious that it was working pretty well). How can they respond to good news?

Well, they could graciously admit that they were wrong, and offer constructive suggestions about how to make the law work even better. Oh, sorry - I forgot that I wasn't writing jokes for the White House Correspondents' Dinner.

No, they have in fact continued to do what they've been doing ever since the news on Obamacare started turning positive: sling as much mud as possible at health reform, in the hope that some of it sticks. Premiums were soaring, they declared, when they have actually come in below projections. Millions of people were losing coverage, they insisted, when the great bulk of those whose policies were canceled simply replaced them with new policies. The Obama administration was cooking the books, they cried (projection, anyone?). And, of course, they keep peddling horror stories about people suffering terribly from Obamacare, not one of which has withstood scrutiny.

Now comes the latest claim - that many of the people who signed up for insurance aren't actually paying their premiums. Obviously this claim is part of a continuing pattern. It also, however, involves a change in tactics. Previous attacks on Obamacare were pretty much fact-free; this time the claim was backed by a survey purporting to show that a third of enrollees hadn't paid their first premium.

But the survey was rigged. (Are you surprised?) It asked insurers how many enrollees had paid their first premium; it ignored the fact that the first premium wasn't even due for the millions of people who signed up for insurance after March 15.

And the fact that the survey was so transparently rigged is a smoking gun, proving that the attacks on Obamacare aren't just bogus; they're deliberately bogus. The staffers who set up that survey knew enough about the numbers to skew them, which meant that they have to have known that Obamacare is actually doing OK.

So why are Republicans doing this? Sad to say, there's method in their fraudulence.

First of all, it fires up the base. After this latest exercise in deception, we can be fairly sure that Republican leaders know perfectly well that Obamacare has failed to fail. But the party faithful don't. Like anyone who writes about these issues, I get vast amounts of mail from people who know, just know, that insurance premiums are skyrocketing, that far more people have lost insurance because of Obummercare than have gained it, that all the horror stories are real, and that anyone who says otherwise is just a liberal shill.

Beyond that, the constant harping on alleged failure works as innuendo even if each individual claim collapses in the face of evidence. A recent poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that a majority of Americans know that more than 8 million people enrolled in health exchanges; but it also found a majority of respondents believing that this was below expectations, and that the law was working badly.

So Republicans are spreading disinformation about health reform because it works, and because they can - there is no sign that they pay any political price when their accusations are proved false.

And that observation should scare you. What happens to the Congressional Budget Office if a party that has learned that lying about numbers works takes full control of Congress? What happens if it regains the White House, too? Nothing good, that's for sure.


Paul Krugman is a columnist for The New York Times, and is calls 'em like I seen 'em.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby Gj325 » Mon May 05, 2014 9:49 pm

Dude
Here are the fact as it falls with my business. We had what I called ok insurance. Not the best but workable.
Current policy that expires July 1 and will not renew due to Obamacare.

Family coverage. $5000 ded. No prescription coverage until ded. Is met. 100% coverage for all medical bills medicine after $5000 ded. Total out of pocket per family. Cost per month $835.00 paid 100% by the company.

Best quote to date. Have 6 quotes.

5000 ded. 80 % coverage after ded. On all meds and medical expenses.
Total out of pocket per family $15,000.00. Cost per Month $1585.00

There are cheaper plans. That have 30k out of pocket and 10 k ded. For low budget price of $1100 per month
But only cover 50% of medical expenses till out of pocket is met.

This is complete bullshit. How can any family afford 30 k out of pocket in any year much less every year.

I have always paid 100% of my employees coverage. I have 45 employees.

I am looking at 630 k more. Where do you and your liberal friends think this money comes from. I am now burdened with telling my employees that I can't afford. This and they are getting crappy insurance with at a min almost triple out of pocket expenses.

The only lies coming out of Obamacare is by the President his Dem followers and the media.

Truth is all of us are screwed higher prem. less coverage less doctors. If anyone votes Dem in the next elections there are either too dumb or brainwashed and should be in a straight jacket at best.

Obamacare is the worst thing that's ever happened to this country by far. Period End of Story.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby clampdaddy » Mon May 05, 2014 11:02 pm

Gj325. So what are your options? Since you have only have 45 employees do you have to provide coverage for all full time employees or will you have to cut their hours to make them part time status?

We hire quite a few temps to help out with the winter construction where I work. Gives us a chance to see which guys are worth a damn when full time positions open up. We had to lay all of them off this year. Under the AHCA, once we work them for 6 months in one calendar year we have to give them full time employee benefits. Really sucks for them. Loose your job and now be forced to buy insurance or pay a penalty. As one of them (and a good friend of mine) said when he heard the news, "I sure as fu@& wish that Obama would quit trying to help me!".
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon May 05, 2014 11:37 pm

dudejcb wrote:When the truth hurts, an effective alternative is to lie. A lot. And keep repeating it. A lot. Especially if your listener drones don't fact check or care to.

Republicans' response to health reform's success is to close their eyes and sling bad statistics.

On Thursday, House Republicans released a deliberately misleading report on the status of health reform, crudely rigging the numbers to sustain the illusion of failure in the face of unexpected success. Are you shocked?

You aren't, but you should be. Mainstream politicians didn't always try to advance their agenda through lies, damned lies and - in this case - bogus statistics. And the fact that this has become standard operating procedure for a major party bodes ill for America's future.

About that report: The really big policy news of 2014, at least so far, is the spectacular recovery of the Affordable Care Act from its stumbling start, thanks to an extraordinary late surge that took enrollment beyond early projections. The age mix of enrollees has improved; insurance companies are broadly satisfied with the risk pool. Multiple independent surveys confirm that the percentage of Americans without health insurance has already declined substantially, and there's every reason to believe that over the next two years the act will meet its overall goals, except in states that refuse to expand Medicaid.

This is a problem for Republicans, who have bet the ranch on the proposition that health reform is an unfixable failure. "Nobody can make Obamacare work," declared Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, a couple of weeks ago (when it was already obvious that it was working pretty well). How can they respond to good news?

Well, they could graciously admit that they were wrong, and offer constructive suggestions about how to make the law work even better. Oh, sorry - I forgot that I wasn't writing jokes for the White House Correspondents' Dinner.

No, they have in fact continued to do what they've been doing ever since the news on Obamacare started turning positive: sling as much mud as possible at health reform, in the hope that some of it sticks. Premiums were soaring, they declared, when they have actually come in below projections. Millions of people were losing coverage, they insisted, when the great bulk of those whose policies were canceled simply replaced them with new policies. The Obama administration was cooking the books, they cried (projection, anyone?). And, of course, they keep peddling horror stories about people suffering terribly from Obamacare, not one of which has withstood scrutiny.

Now comes the latest claim - that many of the people who signed up for insurance aren't actually paying their premiums. Obviously this claim is part of a continuing pattern. It also, however, involves a change in tactics. Previous attacks on Obamacare were pretty much fact-free; this time the claim was backed by a survey purporting to show that a third of enrollees hadn't paid their first premium.

But the survey was rigged. (Are you surprised?) It asked insurers how many enrollees had paid their first premium; it ignored the fact that the first premium wasn't even due for the millions of people who signed up for insurance after March 15.

And the fact that the survey was so transparently rigged is a smoking gun, proving that the attacks on Obamacare aren't just bogus; they're deliberately bogus. The staffers who set up that survey knew enough about the numbers to skew them, which meant that they have to have known that Obamacare is actually doing OK.

So why are Republicans doing this? Sad to say, there's method in their fraudulence.

First of all, it fires up the base. After this latest exercise in deception, we can be fairly sure that Republican leaders know perfectly well that Obamacare has failed to fail. But the party faithful don't. Like anyone who writes about these issues, I get vast amounts of mail from people who know, just know, that insurance premiums are skyrocketing, that far more people have lost insurance because of Obummercare than have gained it, that all the horror stories are real, and that anyone who says otherwise is just a liberal shill.

Beyond that, the constant harping on alleged failure works as innuendo even if each individual claim collapses in the face of evidence. A recent poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that a majority of Americans know that more than 8 million people enrolled in health exchanges; but it also found a majority of respondents believing that this was below expectations, and that the law was working badly.

So Republicans are spreading disinformation about health reform because it works, and because they can - there is no sign that they pay any political price when their accusations are proved false.

And that observation should scare you. What happens to the Congressional Budget Office if a party that has learned that lying about numbers works takes full control of Congress? What happens if it regains the White House, too? Nothing good, that's for sure.


Paul Krugman is a columnist for The New York Times, and is calls 'em like I seen 'em.



:lol3: Liberal moron called who a liar?

No facts or supporting evidence of any kind. Just a liberal rant about people telling the truth.

"When the truth hurts, an effective alternative is to lie. A lot. And keep repeating it. A lot. Especially if your listener drones don't fact check or care to." Sounds like a strangely familiar method of leadership. Benghazi? Obamas history and personal records? IRS Gate? Anything starting to ring a bell Dude?

We are fully aware he thinks just like you. That just proves that your :censored: in the head.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue May 06, 2014 8:10 am

Obama lied to make it law. So how can he bitch if the Republicans lie to end it?

What is good for the goose is good for the gander?

If you don't like that, then do lie to start with.

If you like your insurance, you can keep it. PERIOD! - Barack the liar Obama

At best Dude is arguing for a double standards. So I really am not going to wast my time. Besides, if you are not free to make bad choices YOU ARE NOT FREE! And Obama rejects the notion that you should be free to buy coverage with out all the features he, oh holy one, deems you a fool if you wish not to buy, as if he is all seeing and knows the situation of 310+ million Americans.

My health insurance costs went up a lot this year. I guess that's that cost curve being bent down and I should thank Obama :bow: :bow: :bow:
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue May 06, 2014 10:06 am

He is saving you an extra dollar bill a few thousand at a time from your pocket. He can spend them better than you can. In this case it was over thousand of them a year in medical costs. Toss in the hidden taxes and he is saving you to the tune of $3,000 to $5,000 a year more. Just what you asked for. :hammer:

I love how a liberal comes here to rant about someone lying. Pot = kettle doesn't even begin to cover it.

I am pissed because you lied about my lie which led to a bill full of lies and theft and you should feel bad because I say you lied! :mad: Someone needs a lot of :help:


Apparently Dude has never heard about needing to have a leg to stand on before picking a fight. :lol3:
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby Rat Creek » Tue May 06, 2014 11:19 am

And Dude's source was Paul Krugman. :lol3: :crying: :lol3: :crying: :lol3: :crying: :lol3: :crying: :lol3: :crying: :lol3: :crying: :lol3:

I guess Obama was not available to play the part of an impartial expert on the matter. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Dang, you talk about drinking the cool-aid. Save some for the other useful idiots. They need an energy boost as well. :beer:

Here is a fact for you. Between premium increases and the medicare surcharge, my healthcare expense for the same plan is up $3,000.

With all these facts and real life examples all around, the useful idiots just keep on doing what they do best... lie and deceive. :no:
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue May 06, 2014 11:23 am

Image
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby imboray » Tue May 06, 2014 12:02 pm

I was forced to sign up and give up my coverage, so I began the process before they decided I could keep my current policy another year. When I began the process I enrolled, picked a plan & then had to wait and see if I qualified for a subsidy. With the subsidy I was estimated to get per the BCBS website I would have lower premiums but worse coverage as far a deductible & Out of pocket expense were concerned. It was comparable but definitely a worse deal. Because my employer pay would the premium for me I did not qualify for any subsidy. If we choose not to take the ins. at work they give us a prorated amount cash in hand. I choose not to take my employers ins. because it is a group plan and the rates are through the roof so I took the prorated amount cash in hand. I can provide ins. for my whole family for less than the price at work for just me. In the mean time after enrolling they extended how long I could keep my current plan so I decided not to take the new policy through the ACA thus I didn't pay my premium. Long story short those thousands of people are not paying premiums on policies they signed up for partly because the plan they have is most likely cheaper w/ better coverage, something they would not know had they not enrolled in Obamacare.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby Rat Creek » Tue May 06, 2014 1:19 pm

imboray wrote: In the mean time after enrolling they extended how long I could keep my current plan so I decided not to take the new policy through the ACA thus I didn't pay my premium. Long story short those thousands of people are not paying premiums on policies they signed up for partly because the plan they have is most likely cheaper w/ better coverage, something they would not know had they not enrolled in Obamacare.


Let me paraphrase Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Krugman and Dude. You are a liar. :hammer: You lie, you lie, you lie. :hammer:

The One himself told us that seven...no...eight million and counting have gotten their insurance through the Obamacare website. :no:

Who are we to believe? You? A sniveling little nobody who gets up and provides for his family every day or The One? :huh:
The One who will lower the sea levels. :bow:
The One who said you would save $2500 (or was it $3500) per year on premiums :bow:
The One who said you would save 300% on your premium though that is a mathematical impossibility. :bow:
The One who said you could keep your policy and doctor. PERIOD. :bow:

Who are we to believe? You and the other real Americans who having to live with this mess or the team of Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Krugman and Dude? :huh:
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby imboray » Tue May 06, 2014 1:52 pm

Convenient how you have to actively enroll before you can get a comparison of new vs. old policies. I'm sure those numbers are included in the 8 million number, but they fail to subtract them when that new policy is cancelled in favor of the old.

I also love how they scream from the mountain tops how 8 million people have enrolled & now have insurance, as if people are knock each other down to sign up...Amazing, isn't it, how successful something becomes when you make it mandatory, issue fines for those that don't participate, & extend deadline after deadline.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue May 06, 2014 2:33 pm

What I want to know is how the uninsured are not signing up in big numbers with the exception of those with huge numbers of medical issues who get coverage for free. Instead the numbers are almost entirely people forced out of thier existing coverage into Obummer Care. Yet they claim this is huge and they are "WINNING".

10 million would be a ridiculously low number to claim success in a nation of 330 million people. What a bunch of disembling morons we have elected to lead us.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue May 06, 2014 3:05 pm

imboray wrote:I also love how they scream from the mountain tops how 8 million people have enrolled & now have insurance
:fingerpt:

They do NOT say that. They say the "signed up" which does anybody know what exactly that means?

Can you be counted as signing up and NOT get covered? The answer seems to be yes, so that makes it a very provisional metric until we know whether 95% of people that sign up enroll or 5% do so. The political hack Krugman does not know and we know Krugman does not care. Smart people can defend the dumbest ideas because they have a much deeper and more complicated repertoire of excuse to draw from to use to not just obfuscate the facts from the world, but also from themselves.

How many of the eventual number of people enroll BECAUSE THEY WERE KICKED OFF A POLICY THEY WANTED TO KEEP? There was a simple way to get huge numbers of people to enroll through healthcare.gov. Instead of cancelling 6 million or however many policies were cancelled, think how "successful" this would be if 60 million policies were cancelled. I'll bet there would have been 20, 30, maybe 40 million that signed up. Would that have made Obamacare far more successful? :lol3: But that's what this choice of statistic would tell you.

What is the best estimate of cost per newly insured that otherwise would not have been insured? Even if ALL 8 million are people that would not have been enrolled, the huge cost of 100,000 million dollars per year or whatever it is does not justify all the hassles, hardships, and BS embedded in Obamacare.

However, none of that matters. We have an authoritarian government and not a government of the people. The only difference between a normal authoritarian government is that the authoritarians are change a little each election.

Obama NEVER cared to measure whether or not Obamacare was successful or not. Authoritarians never do. They issue decrees that are infallible in their mind, so why would you try to understand where it is a success and where it is a failure and do that in an open way for public scrutiny? The king is never wrong, especially in his own mind.

It could cost $10,000,000 per newly insured and Dude, Krugman, and Obama would declare it a success and excuse for even more of the same.

The only thing that matters is winning.

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Some other examples of Democrats winning are Detroit, DC, Chicago, ... They clearly know what they are doing :no:
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby On the X » Tue May 06, 2014 6:21 pm

Republican lies on Obamacare? Dude, this is too easy.
Lie 1 "if you like your plan you can keep it .Period"
Lie 2 "what I said was if you like your plan and it stays the same....no changes, then you can keep it. "
I underlined, made bold and increased size to the word period for ya so you wouldn't miss it.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby cartervj » Tue May 06, 2014 7:04 pm

dudejcb wrote:When the truth hurts, an effective alternative is to lie. A lot. And keep repeating it. A lot. Especially if your listener drones don't fact check or care to.


Paul Krugman is a columnist for The New York Times, and is calls 'em like I seen 'em.



Paul Krugman is Socialist/Communist loyalist that has proven by his own-self Liberal monetary policies do not work. :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby Gj325 » Tue May 06, 2014 8:00 pm

clampdaddy wrote:Gj325. So what are your options? Since you have only have 45 employees do you have to provide coverage for all full time employees or will you have to cut their hours to make them part time status?

We hire quite a few temps to help out with the winter construction where I work. Gives us a chance to see which guys are worth a damn when full time positions open up. We had to lay all of them off this year. Under the AHCA, once we work them for 6 months in one calendar year we have to give them full time employee benefits. Really sucks for them. Loose your job and now be forced to buy insurance or pay a penalty. As one of them (and a good friend of mine) said when he heard the news, "I sure as fu@& wish that Obama would quit trying to help me!".



All of my employees have been with me for a long time. I have always fully funded this plus a profit sharing plan that was basically 15% of their total pay into a managed fund if I stop paying employees have hurt feelings prob. Cost me production there but there is no way I can pay for this increase my best plan is to go with high ded high out of pocket and low % over coverage till out of pocket is met.

I am the oldest employee (53) so hopefully most will never incur those out of pockets.
I am in same boat I will get the same coverage. I can afford out of pocket but who wants that burden over you ever year as you get older.

In short. I will pay in full but insurance will be many times worse so they too will feel this Obamacare pain.
Sorry to say but it's exactly as the Rep. Warned only worse.

Hopefully no one is stricken with a bad illness or accident till after 2017 giving time for hopefully a fix. I truly don't think a repeal will ever happen even though it needs to.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby beretta24 » Wed May 07, 2014 1:55 am

Dude, how can you talk about twisting facts with a straight face when it required lies to get the public support to pass it, paying up front to justify claiming its cost neutral, and the exec branch single handedly delaying implementation of key provisions to prevent the economy from tanking.

Are you high?
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed May 07, 2014 8:30 am

beretta24 wrote:Dude, how can you talk about twisting facts with a straight face when it required lies to get the public support to pass it, paying up front to justify claiming its cost neutral, and the exec branch single handedly delaying implementation of key provisions to prevent the economy from tanking.

Are you high?



Your honor I object! Asked and answered! :lol3:
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby cartervj » Wed May 07, 2014 7:57 pm

Who's lying again :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/07/obamacare-enrollments-may-also-include-duplicates-congressional-testimony/

Obamacare ‘Enrollments’ May Also Include Duplicates: Congressional Testimony
May. 7, 2014 8:49pm Becket Adams

The White House’s touted Obamacare sign-up number may be inflated due to the fact that many consumers were required during the rollout of the glitchy healthcare.gov website to sign up more than once for the same plan, creating so-called “duplicate enrollments,” according to a representative of the insurance industry.

Testifying before a hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Oversight Committee, Mark Pratt, Senior Vice President, State Affairs America’s Health Insurance Plans, raised questions about the White House’s claim that nearly 8 million Americans have signed up for a health insurance plan under the Affordable Care Act.

“Because of the challenges that surfaced with the launch of the Exchanges in October 2013, some consumers were advised to create a new account and enroll again,” Pratt said Wednesday.

“As a result, insurers have many duplicate enrollments in their system for which they never received any payment. In cases where an insurer has a new enrollment for a consumer who previously enrolled, they are not expecting that original policy to be effectuated – even though that data is still reported,” he added.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby imboray » Thu May 08, 2014 7:42 am

cartervj wrote:Who's lying again :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/07/obamacare-enrollments-may-also-include-duplicates-congressional-testimony/

Obamacare ‘Enrollments’ May Also Include Duplicates: Congressional Testimony
May. 7, 2014 8:49pm Becket Adams

The White House’s touted Obamacare sign-up number may be inflated due to the fact that many consumers were required during the rollout of the glitchy healthcare.gov website to sign up more than once for the same plan, creating so-called “duplicate enrollments,” according to a representative of the insurance industry.

Testifying before a hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Oversight Committee, Mark Pratt, Senior Vice President, State Affairs America’s Health Insurance Plans, raised questions about the White House’s claim that nearly 8 million Americans have signed up for a health insurance plan under the Affordable Care Act.

“Because of the challenges that surfaced with the launch of the Exchanges in October 2013, some consumers were advised to create a new account and enroll again,” Pratt said Wednesday.

“As a result, insurers have many duplicate enrollments in their system for which they never received any payment. In cases where an insurer has a new enrollment for a consumer who previously enrolled, they are not expecting that original policy to be effectuated – even though that data is still reported,” he added.


I signed up 3 times. My initial time needed to be redone due to website issues, the second time I didn't qualify for any subsidy so I stuck with my original plan, & and a 3rd time after my taxes were done this year and they extended the deadline, I tried again because I made less money than the previous year. I know of others who signed up at least twice.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby Indaswamp » Thu May 08, 2014 12:40 pm

KRUGMAN!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What a dufus of a shill!!!
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby dudejcb » Thu May 08, 2014 2:40 pm

I had noticed that some feel free to post articles from clearly right wing sources as though they are gospel, so I thought, why not do the same (in reverse) to see how well you all receive it. Asked and answered for sure; very little tolerance for anything not in lock step with pre-existing right wing views.

Thanks for your participation in this small demonstration of intolerance.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby beretta24 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:05 pm

dudejcb wrote:I had noticed that some feel free to post articles from clearly right wing sources as though they are gospel, so I thought, why not do the same (in reverse) to see how well you all receive it. Asked and answered for sure; very little tolerance for anything not in lock step with pre-existing right wing views.

Thanks for your participation in this small demonstration of intolerance.

Sounds like you made a fun game for yourself, but several spoke nothing of the source and attacked the bs position of the article. But feel free to sit up on your high horse as long as you'd like.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu May 08, 2014 3:17 pm

dudejcb wrote:I had noticed that some feel free to post articles from clearly right wing sources as though they are gospel, so I thought, why not do the same (in reverse) to see how well you all receive it. Asked and answered for sure; very little tolerance for anything not in lock step with pre-existing right wing views.

Thanks for your participation in this small demonstration of intolerance.

I'm sure you think this proves what you already know to be true. It does not.

Posting an article by a partisan hack and then it being criticized as such is proof of nothing other than your personal bias.

When you criticize an article from "clearly right wing sources," is that proof that you have very little tolerance for anything not in lock step" with your pre-exising left-wing views? :no:

I think you come closer to proving your hypocrisy or maybe you are not aware of what a political hack Krugman is.

Is the eight million number Obama, et. al. cite misleading if it includes people who never have or never will pay their premium?

Is the eight million number Obama, et. al. cite misleading if it includes people who signed up multiple times?

Is the eight million number Obama, et. al. cite misleading if nobody even knows for sure what the hell the definition of "signed up" means?

Is the eight million number Obama, et. al. cite misleading if it includes people who had their policies canceled by Obama? If canceling more policies leads to a bigger number, doesn't that make the statistic a potentially perverse measure of success?

Krugman, a trained economist, knows how to critically examine these kind of issues. He has one legitimate criticism of one report and then jumps to ridiculous conclusions.

Never forget that BOTH sides can be wrong. Proving someone lied about Obamacare doesn't mean Obama did NOT lie about Obamacare. Proving someone wrong does NOT prove that you are right. Remember when Dan Rather used forged documents to try and prove something about Bush. I'm sure you never took that as proof that Bush was right, but understood only that those documents were bogus.

"Now comes the latest claim - that many of the people who signed up for insurance aren't actually paying their premiums." Who doubts this is not true. When you are dealing with millions of people, even 1% of them would constitute "many people" would it not?

What is the actual number? Do you notice Krugman does not tell us whether he thinks out of that 8 million that have "signed up" whether there will ultimately be 7.9M or 0.79M people that pay. Even if it is just 10%, that's down to 7M and with all the screw ups and human nature and a definition that nobody understands, it could easily be 1/4th or even 1/3rd that do not pay, which would drop that number down to 5 to 6M range. And that still doesn't tell us anything. What if it is 8M that pay, but 6M of them were policies that got cancelled under Obamacare and the other 2M are people that turned down coverage because they did not want to pay, but could have and then got very sick and now choose to make the rest of us pay for their bad life choices?

There is no way that we will ever KNOW what this law did. First, Obama does not care. Come hell or high water, he was ramming it down our throats because he had absolute faith that it would make life better, no matter how many people it harmed along the way.
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Re: Republican Lies, Damned Lies, and Obamacare

Postby clampdaddy » Thu May 08, 2014 5:19 pm

beretta24 wrote:Sounds like you made a fun game OF yourself......

FIFY
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