Flawed logic

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Flawed logic

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed May 07, 2014 2:36 pm

http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/statement-us-education-secretary-arne-duncan-national-assessment-educational-pro

This is the original press release.

"Despite the highest high school graduation rate in our history, and despite growth in student achievement over time in elementary school and middle school, student achievement at the high school level has been flat in recent years. Just as troubling, achievement gaps among ethnic groups have not narrowed. We project that our nation's public schools will become majority-minority this fall—making it even more urgent to put renewed attention into the academic rigor and equity of course offerings and into efforts to redesign high schools. We must reject educational stagnation in our high schools, and as a nation, we must do better for all students, especially for African-American and Latino students."


Doesn't this make a lot more sense?

"As a result of the highest high school graduation rate in our history, and despite growth in student achievement over time in elementary school and middle school, student achievement at the high school level has been flat in recent years. Just as troubling, achievement gaps among ethnic groups have not narrowed. We project that our nation's public schools will become majority-minority this fall—making it even more urgent to put renewed attention into the academic rigor and equity of course offerings and into efforts to redesign high schools. We must reject educational stagnation in our high schools, and as a nation, we must do better for all students, especially for African-American and Latino students."


If high school graduation rates are the highest in history, might that not suggest lower graduation standards and therefore lack of motivation for those who are in high school who see no particular value in getting more than a high school diploma, if they even see the value in that?

It is very rare that achievement is increased by lowering standards. It's quite typical for lower standards to produce lower achievement and not the other way around. Higher achievement should lead to higher graduation rates. However, there is an easy way to get higher graduation rates without higher achievement. Lower graduation standards and voila, higher graduation rates.

And given the "growth in student achievement over time in elementary school and middle school" are not reflected in growth in achievement at the high school level, I think the demotivate effects of lower standards for graduation should be suspected as a major contributing factor in explaining the gains being lost in high school. However, when you think everybody should get a trophy no matter what, you cannot grasp how that eliminates part of the motivation for higher achievement.

Despite eliminating championship and personal achievement trophies in Little League, the players achievement declined. Practices and everything seemed like they had made the kids more skilled, but when they were put on the playing field, they just didn't perform as expected where it really counts. Sounds like the paradox that Secretary Duncan is wrestling with in his head.

You cannot take incentives away and expect people to not act like there is less incentive :fingerhead:
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Re: Flawed logic

Postby Indaswamp » Thu May 08, 2014 12:43 pm

But Spinnerman, everybody gets a trophy (diploma)... :hammer: :hammer:
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Re: Flawed logic

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu May 08, 2014 1:51 pm

Exactly, so who cares what your batting average is or whether or not you caught that pop fly if you would have hustled or jogged to first for a single when you could have sprinted to second for a double or beat the throw to first or ...?
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Re: Flawed logic

Postby Rat Creek » Fri May 09, 2014 12:32 pm

Back in the 90s as he noticed very little academic growth in high school, Newt Gingrich referred to high school as nothing more than "Subsidized Dating." :lol3: :clapping: :lol3: :clapping: :lol3: Some things never change.
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Re: Flawed logic

Postby ScaupHunter » Fri May 09, 2014 2:51 pm

When you dumb down the standards and discipline systems you dumb down the students. Not a hard concept to understand. Unless of course you have an agenda to push. Then you just ignore reality and move on with what you want to be real.
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Re: Flawed logic

Postby cartervj » Fri May 09, 2014 7:45 pm

this kinda fits here, helps explain how we were pushed in this direction

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2014/05/09/study-media-is-made-up-of-miserable-middle-aged-liberals

With their business models crashing along with their self-respect and integrity, it comes as no surprise that a new study finds that American journalists are a bunch of "miserable, liberal, over-educated, under-paid, middle-aged men."

The study shows that the attitudes of journalists have dramatically changed over the last 50 years. My guess is that this is mainly due to the end of the era of the hard-charging Woodward and Bernsteins seeking truth and holding power accountable. All the fun of righteous crusades have ended.

Today, journalists are required to serve power, protect the State, and never-ever go against the left-wing grain. The results are to be expected. Compared to 1971 (the Watergate era), when 49% of journalists said they were "very satisfied" with their job, only 23% can say the same today.

Apparently, journalists at least have the decency to not feel good about protecting power, the State and its Democrat enablers like Obama.

A full 59% of journalists see their profession as going in the "wrong direction." And that probably doesn’t mean that journalists think the wagon circling to protect Obama should be going clockwise instead of counter-clockwise.

Journalists are getting older, too. The median age today is 47, compared with 37 in 1971.

Journalists are also more liberal. In 1971, 26% identified as Republican. Now only 7% do.

I'll give journalists this much: They have earned their misery. They did build that.
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Re: Flawed logic

Postby Sgtstadanko707 » Sun May 11, 2014 12:38 am

I graduated high school in 2004 with a 2.2.gpa. Really didn't give a damn. Went back to school to finish my college degree and Finished 2 years ago with a 3.8 on the deans list. Oh and I didn't even buy my books the last 2 years. It's such a joke now.

http://financemymoney.com/grade-inflati ... gh-grades/
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Re: Flawed logic

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon May 12, 2014 12:17 pm

Interesting read. I love the last sentence which probably most accurately describes our education problem.

http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2014/05/01/will-dunbar-rise-again-n1830522/page/full
With or without racial issues, there is no way to provide a good education for youngsters who want to learn when there are less able and more disruptive kids in the same classes. Are those who came to learn going to be sacrificed until such indefinite time as it takes for us to "solve" the "problems" of those who don't?
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