More Obamacare sh*t

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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:21 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
huntmmup wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:Define affordable. Cover deductibles, actual coverage, and services available before you make that claim. I have $50 bucks that says there is nothing afordable about it at all.


You would lose $50 to a lot of older people. I do not know about younger people, I have read generally that young healthy people are going to be the ones paying more to cover older with health problems like my wife. But yes our premiums are lower, same coverage (according to our specialist, a few additional items are covered than were before), same deductible.

What gets me is people who think this is socialized health care. :lol3: apparently they have never bought insurance before, because I'm sure as heck still paying a private company for insurance.

So you're happy to have others pay for your care. That's mighty generous of you.

Or, at times, to help others pay for theirs. That's essentially what makes the US what it is beretta. It's not just generosity, it's doing what is best for the society. Honest, this society isn't founded on the "beretta states of America". Now, granted, we are turning rapidly into an oligarchy in which the few simply utilize the dispensable many, but that is not what we are supposed to be. It's the inevitable conclusion of free-market capitalism. No question about it.



So glimmer what you're saying is that by your logic, it is moral for another mans existence to place a burden on me? You may call this "forced benevolence" as part of civil society, but I call it theft. The capital that I once owned is now being taken from me for someone else. Wow don't I feel so good about myself!

Just please answer me, why is it okay for your existence to force a burden onto me or anyone else? What did I do to owe you or your wife health care?

You implicity agreed to be part of this society by living within its current political system. We don't pick and choose what laws we want to abide by and which we don't, as this leads to total anarchy. In being part of this system, you have accepted the onus of a certain sharing of something of which you currently have an abundance of in the surety that if you, at some point, have a dire shortage of said something, others will contribute to you.




Quit beating around the bush and answer the question. Is it moral that you steal money from me to pay for your wife's health care? I don't care if you want to claim it's a tax, it's theft regardless of the legal sugar coating so again I ask, is it moral to take my money without consent for that purpose?
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:23 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
huntmmup wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:Define affordable. Cover deductibles, actual coverage, and services available before you make that claim. I have $50 bucks that says there is nothing afordable about it at all.


You would lose $50 to a lot of older people. I do not know about younger people, I have read generally that young healthy people are going to be the ones paying more to cover older with health problems like my wife. But yes our premiums are lower, same coverage (according to our specialist, a few additional items are covered than were before), same deductible.

What gets me is people who think this is socialized health care. :lol3: apparently they have never bought insurance before, because I'm sure as heck still paying a private company for insurance.

So you're happy to have others pay for your care. That's mighty generous of you.

Or, at times, to help others pay for theirs. That's essentially what makes the US what it is beretta. It's not just generosity, it's doing what is best for the society. Honest, this society isn't founded on the "beretta states of America". Now, granted, we are turning rapidly into an oligarchy in which the few simply utilize the dispensable many, but that is not what we are supposed to be. It's the inevitable conclusion of free-market capitalism. No question about it.



So glimmer what you're saying is that by your logic, it is moral for another mans existence to place a burden on me? You may call this "forced benevolence" as part of civil society, but I call it theft. The capital that I once owned is now being taken from me for someone else. Wow don't I feel so good about myself!

Just please answer me, why is it okay for your existence to force a burden onto me or anyone else? What did I do to owe you or your wife health care?

You implicity agreed to be part of this society by living within its current political system. We don't pick and choose what laws we want to abide by and which we don't, as this leads to total anarchy. In being part of this system, you have accepted the onus of a certain sharing of something of which you currently have an abundance of in the surety that if you, at some point, have a dire shortage of said something, others will contribute to you.



And no the function of the government is to ensure that another individual cannot take my rights away, not to take my rights and give them to another. It is corrupt and shrewd methodology that disguises theft as a tax.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun May 18, 2014 8:24 am

Glimmerjim wrote: You implicity agreed to be part of this society by living within its current political system. We don't pick and choose what laws we want to abide by and which we don't, as this leads to total anarchy. In being part of this system, you have accepted the onus of a certain sharing of something of which you currently have an abundance of in the surety that if you, at some point, have a dire shortage of said something, others will contribute to you.




Bluesky2012 wrote: Quit beating around the bush and answer the question. Is it moral that you steal money from me to pay for your wife's health care? I don't care if you want to claim it's a tax, it's theft regardless of the legal sugar coating so again I ask, is it moral to take my money without consent for that purpose?


Well, I thought I did, Bluesky. If you want it more simple, Yes.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:27 am

Ok glimmer, I can't pay for a bigger house. You owe me money to pay for it because I think it's my right to have an equal house to yours. If the government mandated that, still moral or is that theft disguised as a tax?
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun May 18, 2014 8:28 am

Bluesky2012 wrote: And no the function of the government is to ensure that another individual cannot take my rights away, not to take my rights and give them to another. It is corrupt and shrewd methodology that disguises theft as a tax.

I am not talking about what "should" be, necessarily, I am talking about what "is." Can you deduct everything from your tax payment that you don't agree with?
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:33 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote: And no the function of the government is to ensure that another individual cannot take my rights away, not to take my rights and give them to another. It is corrupt and shrewd methodology that disguises theft as a tax.

I am not talking about what "should" be, necessarily, I am talking about what "is." Can you deduct everything from your tax payment that you don't agree with?



My point exactly, just because it currently is part of my taxes doesn't mean it should be. Any tax relating to the ACA and other taxes aren't moral, shouldn't be part of the FEDERAL government and should be removed. Those are not just taxes.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:33 am

Bluesky2012 wrote:Ok glimmer, I can't pay for a bigger house. You owe me money to pay for it because I think it's my right to have an equal house to yours. If the government mandated that, still moral or is that theft disguised as a tax?



So again I'd like to hear your answer to this
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun May 18, 2014 8:34 am

Bluesky2012 wrote:Ok glimmer, I can't pay for a bigger house. You owe me money to pay for it because I think it's my right to have an equal house to yours. If the government mandated that, still moral or is that theft disguised as a tax?

The society of which you are a voluntary member has not agreed to fulfill all of your wants, Bluesky. It HAS agreed to fulfill a modicum of needs if you are in a situation that it, in aggregate, has deemed worthy of societal assistance.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun May 18, 2014 8:39 am

Bluesky2012 wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote: And no the function of the government is to ensure that another individual cannot take my rights away, not to take my rights and give them to another. It is corrupt and shrewd methodology that disguises theft as a tax.

I am not talking about what "should" be, necessarily, I am talking about what "is." Can you deduct everything from your tax payment that you don't agree with?



My point exactly, just because it currently is part of my taxes doesn't mean it should be. Any tax relating to the ACA and other taxes aren't moral, shouldn't be part of the FEDERAL government and should be removed. Those are not just taxes.

What can I say? Its good to have an opinion. I already explained to you the reasoning behind my opinion. You could start a movement to get all Federal assistance programs canceled. I would not vote for it.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:42 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:Ok glimmer, I can't pay for a bigger house. You owe me money to pay for it because I think it's my right to have an equal house to yours. If the government mandated that, still moral or is that theft disguised as a tax?

The society of which you are a voluntary member has not agreed to fulfill all of your wants, Bluesky. It HAS agreed to fulfill a modicum of needs if you are in a situation that it, in aggregate, has deemed worthy of societal assistance.



But it's not fair that you have a bigger house. I find it a basic human right and will make my life better an healthier because my living conditions are improved. So essentially if "in aggregate" the society deems it fine for us to take money from you because "in aggregate" we believe we all should have a bigger house, then that's okay? That's the dangers of your thoughts on expanding federal powers and ruling through majority rule. 51% can vote away the rights of the 49% as seen evidenced through the ACA.

Just a tip in life, if you have to all of a sudden expand your vocabulary to use big and lofty phrases, it typically signifies a lacking argument and a desire to mask a lack of quality.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:43 am

Do you seriously not see any dangers in the federal government running these federal assistance programs and taking from those who earn to give to those who don't?
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun May 18, 2014 8:45 am

Bluesky2012 wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:Ok glimmer, I can't pay for a bigger house. You owe me money to pay for it because I think it's my right to have an equal house to yours. If the government mandated that, still moral or is that theft disguised as a tax?

The society of which you are a voluntary member has not agreed to fulfill all of your wants, Bluesky. It HAS agreed to fulfill a modicum of needs if you are in a situation that it, in aggregate, has deemed worthy of societal assistance.



But it's not fair that you have a bigger house. I find it a basic human right and will make my life better an healthier because my living conditions are improved. So essentially if "in aggregate" the society deems it fine for us to take money from you because "in aggregate" we believe we all should have a bigger house, then that's okay? That's the dangers of your thoughts on expanding federal powers and ruling through majority rule. 51% can vote away the rights of the 49% as seen evidenced through the ACA.

Just a tip in life, if you have to all of a sudden expand your vocabulary to use big and lofty phrases, it typically signifies a lacking argument and a desire to mask a lack of quality.

And a tip right back at ya...Blow me.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:46 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote: And no the function of the government is to ensure that another individual cannot take my rights away, not to take my rights and give them to another. It is corrupt and shrewd methodology that disguises theft as a tax.

I am not talking about what "should" be, necessarily, I am talking about what "is." Can you deduct everything from your tax payment that you don't agree with?



My point exactly, just because it currently is part of my taxes doesn't mean it should be. Any tax relating to the ACA and other taxes aren't moral, shouldn't be part of the FEDERAL government and should be removed. Those are not just taxes.

What can I say? Its good to have an opinion. I already explained to you the reasoning behind my opinion. You could start a movement to get all Federal assistance programs canceled. I would not vote for it.


I would love to do exactly that. I would love to see it run solely through state or smaller governments to prevent the widespread abuse of power as repeatedly shown through the federal government. It would promote diversity and competition in ideas between states so that states would see which program works and would continue to drive innovation. But who wants innovation when we could be equal in communism?
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More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:47 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:Ok glimmer, I can't pay for a bigger house. You owe me money to pay for it because I think it's my right to have an equal house to yours. If the government mandated that, still moral or is that theft disguised as a tax?

The society of which you are a voluntary member has not agreed to fulfill all of your wants, Bluesky. It HAS agreed to fulfill a modicum of needs if you are in a situation that it, in aggregate, has deemed worthy of societal assistance.



But it's not fair that you have a bigger house. I find it a basic human right and will make my life better an healthier because my living conditions are improved. So essentially if "in aggregate" the society deems it fine for us to take money from you because "in aggregate" we believe we all should have a bigger house, then that's okay? That's the dangers of your thoughts on expanding federal powers and ruling through majority rule. 51% can vote away the rights of the 49% as seen evidenced through the ACA.

Just a tip in life, if you have to all of a sudden expand your vocabulary to use big and lofty phrases, it typically signifies a lacking argument and a desire to mask a lack of quality.

And a tip right back at ya...Blow me.


Elegant. I do respect that response honestly. Elegant. Typical whinny liberal form. When an argument gets broken down simply and it crumbles, start quoting john locke, using fancy words, and when it all fails, sling phrases such as "tea bagger" "racist" or "bushes fault".
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun May 18, 2014 8:51 am

Bluesky2012 wrote: Just a tip in life, if you have to all of a sudden expand your vocabulary to use big and lofty phrases, it typically signifies a lacking argument and a desire to mask a lack of quality.

Glimmerjim wrote: And a tip right back at ya...Blow me.

Bluesky2012 wrote: I would love to do exactly that.


You screwed up your posts, Bluesky. Here, I'll fix 'em for ya! :lol3:
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:53 am

Haha that actually is pretty fantastic. I'm not even mad, I'm impressed by the poor timing.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun May 18, 2014 1:07 pm

Bluesky2012 wrote:Haha that actually is pretty fantastic. I'm not even mad, I'm impressed by the poor timing.

:lol3: :thumbsup:
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby High Sierras » Mon May 19, 2014 10:25 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:Ok glimmer, I can't pay for a bigger house. You owe me money to pay for it because I think it's my right to have an equal house to yours. If the government mandated that, still moral or is that theft disguised as a tax?

The society of which you are a voluntary member has not agreed to fulfill all of your wants, Bluesky. It HAS agreed to fulfill a modicum of needs if you are in a situation that it, in aggregate, has deemed worthy of societal assistance.



More simply:

"The society of which you are a voluntary member has not agreed to fulfill all your wants. It HAS discovered that it can vote themselves gifts (like free healthcare) from the public treasury. From this moment on, the majority will always vote for the candidate who promises the most freebies from the public treasury until the government can no longer borrow, beg, or print enough money to keep the system afloat. Then the system will collapse and a dictatorship will follow."



I wonder if that's what obama really meant when he said hope and change?
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby beretta24 » Mon May 19, 2014 11:44 am

Jim, we aren't providing a modicum of needs, we're are covering them all. Food, water, and shelter. We are also providing more than a modicum, to use your fancy word, of wants.

If we were just covering the minimums, the requirement for assistance would be living in shared housing and getting food from the soup line. It would be much cheaper and no one with the ability to leave would stay. It would also be better than what the poor in most the rest of the world experience.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Mon May 19, 2014 12:03 pm

But what about my Obama phone? Is that a basic human right or a want?
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Glimmerjim » Mon May 19, 2014 6:14 pm

beretta24 wrote:Jim, we aren't providing a modicum of needs, we're are covering them all. Food, water, and shelter. We are also providing more than a modicum, to use your fancy word, of wants.

If we were just covering the minimums, the requirement for assistance would be living in shared housing and getting food from the soup line. It would be much cheaper and no one with the ability to leave would stay. It would also be better than what the poor in most the rest of the world experience.

I agree with that, beretta. I am not saying it is not in need of drastic reformation. Perhaps that's the problem...I look at one extreme and consider those of opposing opinion as wanting to completely eliminate it instead of just getting a handle on it. I think that every able-bodied person should work for assistance, also.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Glimmerjim » Mon May 19, 2014 6:17 pm

Bluesky2012 wrote:But what about my Obama phone? Is that a basic human right or a want?

Honestly, Bluesky, I don't even know what that system provides. It surely can't be unlimited time to chat with buddies, is it?
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue May 20, 2014 6:19 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:But what about my Obama phone? Is that a basic human right or a want?

Honestly, Bluesky, I don't even know what that system provides. It surely can't be unlimited time to chat with buddies, is it?

What SHOULD the federal government provide?

If phones, why not cars? Appliances? What should the federal government provide? What if you have no cellphone coverage, should the federal government install the towers? If it is a necessity that cannot be lived without, then aren't they letting those people die or at least suffer badly?
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue May 20, 2014 8:19 am

What Jim constantly fails to see is the steady mission creep the Fed builds into the welfare system. Instead of taking his freedom with an in your face act. They are slowly and steadily destroying the economy, working to tax the hell out of those who work to fund those who don't and making the working mans money worth less. End goal, government control of all companies, the economy, power supplies, everything. Obama made this clear early on in his presidency. Calling for salary caps for private sector jobs, take over of private companies through government subsidy ( GM ), calling for more government control.

They are using the death of a thousand cuts to kill freedom. There is nothing an Illinois Democrat hates more than the law and the Constitution. It reigns in their unbridled criminal activity horribly.
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Re: More Obamacare sh*t

Postby Bluesky2012 » Tue May 20, 2014 8:59 am

ScaupHunter wrote:There is nothing an Illinois Democrat hates more than the law and the Constitution. It reigns in their unbridled criminal activity horribly.



Incorrect. A hard working, self sufficient straight white man who has guns, a bible, and a good knowledge of the true reason for our constitution and history. That's the biggest threat to a communist, I mean democrat, but by marginalizing that man, they can move quickly.
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