polygamy, anyone?

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Postby jehler » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:10 pm

don taylor wrote:
jehler wrote:
don taylor wrote:Didn't texas state when they took the kids it was for the good of the kids?


how wasn't it?


You think these kids that weren't abused are going to come out of this unphased? Can you imagine the questioning they are going through? Every kid is being asked questions that make their dad seem evil. And I' don't care what you say, CYS people plant sh*t in kids heads to justify their actions. They can say that a father inapproptiately touched a kid cause he wiped her azz. Is everyone over looking what Mauser said?

This is all based on lies!


so what you're saying is if we don't have a magic wand to seperate out the kids that were molested we shouldn't act at all. yes this is going to be traumatic for the kids but not as messed up as leaving them there.

This is all based on lies!


are you friggin blind?
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Postby jehler » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:17 pm

don taylor wrote:You mean the molesters, Not the innocent dads right?


don skip the bullsh!t, lay it out, you think this place should have just kept going as it was. business as usual?

If a guy rapes your daughter you can't detain him or witnesses because he is innocent until proven guilty? w, t, f
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Postby don taylor » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:19 pm

No, No magic wand. Just some proof. You have to have a credible source of info. One persons lies who have never been inside the "compound" ( I hate buzz words) is not good enough. By that logic I have never been in your home or spoken to your kids, but I should be able to have you arrested and seperated from your kids, WITH ZERO PROOF. Oh and anybody else in your house is gone too.
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Postby Montanafowler » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:19 pm

Don, how can you defend these people? i'm not talking about innocent people either, i mean these raping, molesting freaks. they are messed up, they should be locked up.
Booney3721 wrote:Try being a dishwasher/Grill cook/ellectrition/garbage disposer and your owner/boss is a fat greek woman who cals you names as Retard, stupid, idiot, molocah, f*** face and tard, and tells you that you was the inspiration for abortion and birth control.
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Postby Montanafowler » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:21 pm

don taylor wrote:No, No magic wand. Just some proof. You have to have a credible source of info. One persons lies who have never been inside the "compound" ( I hate buzz words) is not good enough. By that logic I have never been in your home or spoken to your kids, but I should be able to have you arrested and seperated from your kids, WITH ZERO PROOF. Oh and anybody else in your house is gone too.


the woman who came forward was in there for 4 years, what more credible proof do you need?!
Booney3721 wrote:Try being a dishwasher/Grill cook/ellectrition/garbage disposer and your owner/boss is a fat greek woman who cals you names as Retard, stupid, idiot, molocah, f*** face and tard, and tells you that you was the inspiration for abortion and birth control.
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Postby jehler » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:26 pm

don, have you ever conceded an argument?
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Postby don taylor » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:31 pm

jehler wrote:
don taylor wrote:You mean the molesters, Not the innocent dads right?


don skip the bullsh!t, lay it out, you think this place should have just kept going as it was. business as usual?

If a guy rapes your daughter you can't detain him or witnesses because he is innocent until proven guilty? w, t, f


ABSOLUTLEY NOT! But we have to obey the law. How about this, This is what I would have done...

Apon receiving word of a POSSIBLE molestation of a minor I would have first checked out the story of the accuser. Was it a disgruntled ex member?ect. Then I would have obtained a search warrant and a warrant for the arrest of the SPECIFIC person who abused the child. Then after their arrest I would have interviewed everyone individually. Then went from there. Is that so wrong? Not just "haul all those wack jobs away, billy bob we'll figure this out in the morning"

This is also a way to get around the ordeal of child questioning. If you separate the child from the adult its illegal to question the kid. Unless your CYS. Then you are free to ask those kids whatever you want to elicit what ever response you want. No parents , no lawyers, nothing can stop them. I understand they would be quiet out of fear, but that's a loophole they get. You can't just break the law anytime you feel like may be justified.
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Postby Montanafowler » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:35 pm

upon entering the compound and finding evidence of molestation on a larger level, whoever was investigating the case would call for backup and put everything on lockdown and begin from there.
Booney3721 wrote:Try being a dishwasher/Grill cook/ellectrition/garbage disposer and your owner/boss is a fat greek woman who cals you names as Retard, stupid, idiot, molocah, f*** face and tard, and tells you that you was the inspiration for abortion and birth control.
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Postby jehler » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:35 pm

don taylor wrote:I understand they would be quiet out of fear, but that's a loophole they get. You can't just break the law anytime you feel like may be justified.


that is not a loophole they will get, the law has not been broken that is why we have protective service :thumbsup:
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Postby don taylor » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:35 pm

jehler wrote:don, have you ever conceded an argument?


Yes, after I've been proven wrong. I may have to later on when the facts come out but for now I stand by the law. This all opinion and TONS of speculation now. We'll see.
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Postby jehler » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:39 pm

don I don't like whats going on there but i see no other way to get those kids safe. you must on some level feel for those young girls
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Postby jrockncash » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:05 pm

I would never of guessed someone would be willing to sacrific the innocence of little girls in the name of liberty. People need to stop comparing the girls to kids in the outside world. They arent kissing there boyfriend and getting pregnant their senior year to a guy that just graduated. They are being raped by their Father. The closed environment facilitates the secretive and repeated raping of little girls.
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Postby dudejcb » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:06 pm

We've argued enough and have covered all sides of this issue. I think we've all staked out our thinking. Let's see how it plays out. This is a bad situation no matter how you slice it and however it goes, someone will have to step up for what they think is right... and then get crucified for it.

Ain't that the way it goes.
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Postby don taylor » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:01 pm

well said. We'll update like obama. :help:
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Postby mauser1959 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:14 pm

idahofowler wrote:

exactly, i agree with this statement 100%. but you say that they have rights no matter what, but the constitution states that a person's rights end when they infringe on the rights of others or in times of emminent danger, such as yelling fire in a crowded subway.


Sorry , you need to go read your constitution again. I believe that you probably have never read it , with perhaps the exception as a school project.


And another point to be made. The woman who supposedly made the phone calls was named Rozita Swinton and she implicated a professed child molester; neither of whom are believed to have ever been in the El Dorado YFZ (Yearning For Zion) ranch. The woman who claimed to be 16, was in fact a 33 year old black woman who has made false claims before. SO all claims so far are of a spurious nature.

And as a point of fact a girl can get married with her parents consent at the age of 14 in the state of TX. However the real rub comes in in the fact that most of these marriages were "spiritual" marriages , so not considered marriages by law. In that case a parent can not give consent for their daughter to be molested . However if in fact the girls were legally married to any adult male of any age with the consent of their parents , then the marriage will not be constructed to be a molestation , but a legal marriage. I see that way to many of you are getting to emotionally involved with the media's pablum and not looking at the facts nor logic. So in the end we shall see what will become of this whole fiasco and how much closer this whole raid has taken us towards a dictatorial government.
Last edited by mauser1959 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Montanafowler » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:25 pm

actually i read it about once a week, check the 1st amendment.
Booney3721 wrote:Try being a dishwasher/Grill cook/ellectrition/garbage disposer and your owner/boss is a fat greek woman who cals you names as Retard, stupid, idiot, molocah, f*** face and tard, and tells you that you was the inspiration for abortion and birth control.
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Postby mauser1959 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:37 pm

Actually the first amendment is the last thing that you would want me to check. But for your reading pleasure since you seem to have forgotten what it says. Even though you read it once a week, and have such a clear grasp of what it says.

1st Amendment to the Constitution.



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



Since this is a religious issue on the face , then that would imply that the YFZ ranch's exercise of what they believe in religiously is being abridged.

Now talk about a leap of faith , I see now that someone has decided that it was their fathers raping them. What an outlandish and unfounded claim.

Department of Public Safety Sgt. Danny Crawford testified to DPS's discovery of a church bishop's records taken from a safe at the ranch that listed about 38 families, some of them polygamous and some that included wives 16 or 17 years old. But under repeated cross-examination, Crawford acknowledged the records contained no evidence of sexual abuse.


So now all we have is the words of a woman who has never been on the ranch accusing someone else who has never been there. And a DPS officer who states there has been no evidence so far of sexual abuse.
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Postby mauser1959 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:42 am

One Rozita E. Swinton, pledged Obama delegate:

"In her little baby voice, she said, 'If you rescue me, and I get out of here, do you think the black people will hurt me?' " Walker said. "She had done her homework. She knew it was a racist cult. We know that these kids are very frightened of black people.

"The Texas Rangers told us she was obsessed with the FLDS. They confiscated tons of material on the FLDS (in the search of Swinton's home). She even gave real addresses and real names of FLDS people."

Wow. Obama might want to rethink just who is embittered.

----
Over at Say Anything, it appears that the informant may have made it all up, and was just arrested:

A former polygamist sect member says a Colorado Springs woman who called her posing as a young abused girl could be the same person whose complaints led to a massive child protection raid in West Texas.

Former Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints member Flora Jessop said in a phone interview today that she first received a call from a woman, since identified as Rozita Swinton of Colorado Springs, claiming to be Sarah on March 31...

Swinton, 33, was arrested at her home Wednesday evening on charges of false reporting in two Colorado cases, but Texas Rangers were present for the arrest, Colorado Springs police said.

Anonymous claims are dangerous, and any raid based upon such claims are completely irresponsible. It has yet to be told what exactly happened, but this is another dig at the state's moral authority.

Many of us hold preconceived notions about polygamists, which include underage marriage, statutory rape, and child abuse. That may very well be the case here and in many other polygamist circles, but once we start searching and seizing based on preconceived notions and anonymous claims, rather than empirical evidence, we start hacking away at due process.


http://www.freeconstitutionblog.com/200 ... false.html
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Postby dudejcb » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:13 am

Mauser I went to the blog you linked and you are quoting them accurately.

However, I have not seen any of this story in the mainstream press yet, and if it were true, it seems like the airwaves would be buzzing about it. It may be true and it will just be a matter of time before it widens out into the wider media realm. But...

... It also may be true that this episode is being used as a swiftboat opportunity to smear Obama. So until I hear more about this from several outlets citing many first-hand sources, please pass the salt.
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Postby Montanafowler » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:13 am

:dito:
Booney3721 wrote:Try being a dishwasher/Grill cook/ellectrition/garbage disposer and your owner/boss is a fat greek woman who cals you names as Retard, stupid, idiot, molocah, f*** face and tard, and tells you that you was the inspiration for abortion and birth control.
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Postby mauser1959 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:50 am

I got her name off of drudge and did a google on her. It brought up similar articles and a good share of them pointed to her being arrested. Just google her name ... I have given you all the information that you need.

As added aside , remember how many months that Hannity was on the Reverend Wright story before the main stream media picked up on that story.
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Postby dudejcb » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:54 am

mauser1959 wrote:I got her name off of drudge and did a google on her. It brought up similar articles and a good share of them pointed to her being arrested. Just google her name ... I have given you all the information that you need.

As added aside , remember how many months that Hannity was on the Reverend Wright story before the main stream media picked up on that story.


The dridge Report is all you need say to heighten my skepticism into the stratosphere. Will be waiting for a source a bit less right-wing-vindictive in nature. He's a muck raker's muck raker.
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Postby mauser1959 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:32 am

Well since the Drudge report used a local CBS station as the source , would you believe them? And no matter where the source came from is it not worth your time to google her name?


http://www.keyetv.com/content/news/topn ... content_id
=247fdf95-4688-41f5-8b97-66be59f555ff


And if you do not like them how about the Houston Chronical?


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5713823.html

In the very least I believe that the woman should be investigated for a hate crime since she used the race issue in her false report. Just another case of someone wanting a race war, or at least race friction where none was needed. We have enough problems with race without the likes of her and Obama.
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Postby mauser1959 » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:26 am

Ok for those of you who wished to see this story in the main stream press is this source good enough for you all?


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/23/pol ... index.html
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Postby jehler » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:35 am

mauser1959 wrote:Ok for those of you who wished to see this story in the main stream press is this source good enough for you all?


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/23/pol ... index.html


nope, not good enough. But i did see it on fox news and that, I believe :tongue:
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