Jobs Americans won't do.

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Jobs Americans won't do.

Postby don taylor » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:30 pm

After talking to a friend he informed me about the unemployment situation in Oklahoma. He tells me that while the rest of the country has a flat or rising unemployment rate, Oklahomas is falling. He contributes this to Oklahoma's laws against hiring illegal aliens. They have a tough policy and it seems many illegals are leaving to find work in other states. This is in turn opening up jobs for Americans. He thinks anyone caught hiring illegals should be prosecuted for some type of slavery/civil rights violation. What do you think?
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Postby HotDog » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:37 pm

Can you prosecute an employer of illegals for 'aiding and abetting'?

I'm all for it.(prosecuting).
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Postby Preacher1011 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:38 pm

I think they should be brought up on some kind of charges no doubt. It couldn't be slavery though because they get paid. There are already laws that they could be brought up on, but I think the states don't want them to leave. Why hire Americans at 10 bucks an hour when you can hire an illegal for 4? Gets me ticked just thinking about it.
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Postby jehler » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:45 pm

they get hired because THEY WORK not because they get 4 bucks per hour. try to hire a citizen in the under $15/hour bracket. dead beats, drunks, losers and junkies.
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Postby IAdukhntr » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:48 pm

Gentlemen,

I don't understand how you can say that. I work for a very large company that has some of the highest standard, guildlines and audits to look for forged documents. I think that the illegals sould be arrested and deported and the company employment practices be looked at very hard. As for your subject Jobs Americans won't do is a bit of bull. What ever happened to a hards days work. I wish I could hire people that wants to work everyday. Todays work force wants a easy job without sweating or working.
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Postby flight canceled » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:49 pm

i have seen some illegals doing some good looking yard work and they can lay bricks really well. :biggrin: but they get alot jobs becuase they dont charge alot of money.

I think they should be prosecuted, and the illegal aliens should be sent back to their country
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Postby Preacher1011 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:55 pm

IAdukhntr wrote:Gentlemen,

What ever happened to a hards days work. I wish I could hire people that wants to work everyday. Todays work force wants a easy job without sweating or working.


Amen to that. Except I'm not the one hiring, I'm the one working. It gives Americans a bad name when MY generation sits on their butts all day doing nothing playing video games, watching tv, or talking on the phone. Makes me sick to think my generation will be a bunch of pansies and my kids generation will be worse. My kids will be brought up just like I was. They'll earn their money, and see that it always feels better to get paid for a hard days work than an easy one. I went from doing stucco to an indoor job because I was self employed and couldn't deal with paying my own taxes. I feel like I've screwed the company out of something when I get paid. Hard work planting trees or doing stucco always made me feel like I actually EARNED something instead of it being given to me.
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Postby IAdukhntr » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:12 pm

A year ago I had a 20 yr old kid that just started working for the company come into my office and ask if he could do the same job as another worker who had 36 yrs of seniority. I had to explain to the kid the bid job system. The kid would have made $2.50 an hour more then the other worker if he wouldn't of quit before he was qualified. The kid's job was loading 60lb boxes into trucks on a forklift. By the way....the older worker was a janitor and was hispanic.

Wonder if he is illegal?????????????
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Postby DuckZilla » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:16 pm

In my trade I work with MANY illegals. Out here there are many cause the construction industry is going really well. I can't say for sure that I look down upon them because they are very hard workers and normally do not complain about a single thing. I do not like the fact it takes away jobs from American workers though. I don't think that it will come to an end any time soon though. After talking with a few I have found how easy it is to fool our government. Get a social security number, and if that one turns bad get another one. Pretty easy. Find a name, use it. If found out, change names. Again easy. One I spoke with who moved back to Mexico after accumulating a good sum of money to get his food business going, said that the name he was using had been used by more than one and the pension was quite large! All in all I can't hate on someone for trying to come make a better life for themselves. I can though get irked if that person does it illegally and takes away a job from another American whom deserves it more.
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Postby bluewing77 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:46 pm

there's a whole area of town in albuquerque NM that has spanish business signs, example - restaurants where you cant order in english (the food is awesome by the way) and its just a whole different world. big cities in AZ, CA, i'm sure have the same.

i have similar story to DuckZilla, a guy i know: he and his dad have the same name, they "share" a SSN. dad comes up and works temp jobs, but my bud and his wife and kids (born in US) have lived here ~ 10 years. he EARNED his citizenship, he works hard, is a registered voter and speaks English better than "stereotypical Billy-Bob" rednecks. and to me, thats pretty cool. what gets me are the ones who want/expect to be catered to, and there's plenty of that type.
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Postby mauser1959 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:04 pm

I employed up to 50 men at one time. I have found people of every stripe who do not wish to work... some of whom I suspect were illegals ; but at that time we did not have e-verify. With that being said , most of what has happened here in the midwest has been a product of wealthy companies catering to illegals due to the fact that the companies can get away with shoddy business practices and illegal work practices. I live within an hour of IA.s major hybrid seed corn producing areas and used to the school kids would work for school money and summer jobs detassling corn... those jobs have now been given to illegals who work for less money; and if they complain they know that Pioneer will have them booted. This BS argument there is jobs that Americans will not do is totally disingenuous and offensive. It is of interest that after a Swift plant raid last year in Neb. that over 1000 anglos lined up to take the jobs of 130 illegals. Here we have a major pork plant that employees illegals (and I believe knowingly so) ; a few years ago a friend of mine was in charge of a farrowing house and was told to either learn spanish or look for other employment. Oklahoma has their states attitude right, it is time to get rid of all illegals (hint they are illegals), and force American companies to pay a fair wages. My aunt in Tulsa had never had such destruction on her property till the illegals came to town... I am so glad that the great people of the great state had the foresight as to help illuminate the call for illegal workers. And yes , in Oklahoma the wages went up after the illegals left... makes me proud to have so much family in the great state.
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Postby greenster » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:07 pm

jehler wrote:they get hired because THEY WORK not because they get 4 bucks per hour. try to hire a citizen in the under $15/hour bracket. dead beats, drunks, losers and junkies.


I agree.... You wont see me work to my full potential until the pay is $18 and above. You get what you pay for. But same people can hire illegals.. for $3/hr and legals for $6.25 and get just as much, perhaps more work than I would execute. difference in culture.. but on the same page. that $6.25 is equal to about $30 in there home country.


Illegals... Deport them..
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Postby Smackaduck » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:12 pm

greenster wrote:
jehler wrote:they get hired because THEY WORK not because they get 4 bucks per hour. try to hire a citizen in the under $15/hour bracket. dead beats, drunks, losers and junkies.


I agree.... You wont see me work to my full potential until the pay is $18 and above. You get what you pay for. But same people can hire illegals.. for $3/hr and legals for $6.25 and get just as much, perhaps more work than I would execute. difference in culture.. but on the same page. that $6.25 is equal to about $30 in there home country.


Illegals... Deport them..


Not everyone under that pay meets that description. I was brought up having to work so I have always worked hard wether it be 5.00 or 20.00. I dont know what happened to earning what you get. :huh:
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Postby mauser1959 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:23 pm

I agree totally Smackaduck. I was raised to work hard no matter what the job , whether bucking bales (God that dates me) to working at a desk. I have raised my daughter to bust butt , no matter what the job was at hand , from school to any work that she did... it is not any wonder that the VA hospital that she works at in Des Moines loves her. There are a lot of American kids that have been raised lazy , but there are just as many who have been raised to work hard. It is an ignorant statement to make that some jobs Americans will not do or will not work as hard as anyone else... the same could be said that all mexicans are dirty because of the ones that are commonly seen at wal mart ; but that would not be a true representation of the facts either. The one thing that is honest is that illegals are still illegal and do not pay the same kind of taxes that Americans pay and they suck off of the teat of the social programs that America has.
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Postby bluewing77 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:29 pm

mauser1959 wrote:This BS argument there is jobs that Americans will not do is totally disingenuous and offensive.


i went to school and got myself a degree and a career because there's A WHOLE LOT of jobs that i'd prefer NOT to HAVE to do..... i remember what its like to work hard. what my scholarships didnt cover, i paid for by working summers and winter breaks out in the oilfields of NM, on maintenance crews doing engine/compressor overhauls. which was fine, i just didnt want to be doing it forever.

and i sure as hell dont want to tar roofs or pick lettuce or whatever other jobs all these illegals are "taking away" from americans.

but once again, if they play the rules, no problemo.
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Postby fishfurlife » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:36 pm

Okay, time for Oklahoma to chime in. Illegals, as we put it, are here in Oklahoma for sure, but I don't think as abundant as Texas or New Mexico (But they are border states) With that said, we have entire communities of immigrants, in fact the town of guymon is practically all immigrants. There are several pig farms in the area and they employ the majority of these individuals.

Yes, they work hard, and typically their work is top notch, and cheap. With that said, they can afford cheap work because they don't have to worry about legal anything. I run a tile business on the side and for gods sake there is to much crap a guys has to carry to run a business. I am not for sure, but I assume that the bulk of these individuals don't carry what they need, or only partialy cover their workforce. Either way that is my two sense.

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Postby jeff_osu » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:21 pm

Oklahoma chiming in again...

I wait tables to put myself through school at a Mexican restaraunt, so I work with a lot of illegals. Some are lazy, some are hard workers. I have heard that "the pipeline" is getting a little thinner, but I see new faces come and go on a regular basis. The new Oklahoma legislation has had a little impact, but it's hitting the smaller restaurants first. However, it's not that hard to get ID's and SSN's, and an employer won't ask any questions.

It's not as easy to just say "Ship them all off" when you get to know them on an individual level. Honestly, sometimes I pity them because they travel all the way from Mexico/Guatemala just to scrape plates. They pay for Social Security and will never see a dime of it. If they get pulled over for speeding, their whole life is shattered and they're sent packing back down south. Some of them like the country, some are just exploiting it, but the fact is I've never seen a white person come in and apply to bus tables at any of the restaurants I've worked at. I wouldn't want to do that job either, as aforementioned there's a reason to pursue a degree....I've had some crappy jobs too and those past experiences are definitely motivation to finish up school.

It would make more sense to just take an honest approach and control the flow of these immigrant workers via legal means, i.e. granting temporary work visas, etc. Then taxation is fair, they can qualify for auto insurance, etc.
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Postby mauser1959 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:27 pm

When they got that ID and SSN whose Id were they stealing? The fact that they got an illegal SSN says that they are thieves.
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Postby jeff_osu » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:31 pm

Not always. Sometimes they just use a relatives information. That does make me a bit curious though, from what I've understood most people know the person's info they're using (and neither side has a problem), but I've also heard that papers are $200 on the street. It seems the latter would be identity theft.
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Postby jrockncash » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:44 pm

Both things you just mention shows moral deficiency and is a testament to the type of people we are debating. Like anything there's good un's and bad un's.
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Postby cjc » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:44 am

If they are called "illegal" immigrants, then they should be arrested and deported. True, many of them come here and work hard, but many more come here and end up on welfare, and now i'm supporting them when my kids can use that money for college or shotgun shells.
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Postby don taylor » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:46 am

Here is the problem. When they get work visas they are required to pay a minimum wage. So your $3 job jumps to $6.50 Good for them. On the otherhand, you now have a bunch of drywallers that instead of $15 a hour command $7.50 So that does take jobs from Americans. Why pay a American who knows what his labor is worth when you can pay a illegal the minimum. The skilled trades are hard hit. I see no other solution other than deportation.

I also think that by illegally entering this country you should not be given the same benefits as some one who followed the rules and waited. Why have we made the honest immigrants wait while the criminals will get amnesty? I don't know what they are thinking.
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Postby captainduckhead » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:07 am

greenster wrote:
jehler wrote:they get hired because THEY WORK not because they get 4 bucks per hour. try to hire a citizen in the under $15/hour bracket. dead beats, drunks, losers and junkies.


I agree.... You wont see me work to my full potential until the pay is $18 and above. You get what you pay for. But same people can hire illegals.. for $3/hr and legals for $6.25 and get just as much, perhaps more work than I would execute. difference in culture.. but on the same page. that $6.25 is equal to about $30 in there home country.


Illegals... Deport them..

This is a prime example of the difference in work ethic of the generations. I am roughly Jehlers age, and I was brought up to work hard. The people now that expect $15/hr to do labor work, or any other mindless/unskilled job is really what is ruining the economy more than anything else.
These days if you hire a grunt for under $10 you get some slacker that barely can spell his name and is more than willing to rip you off, or sleep on the job.
The answer is to lower the minumum wage nationally, back to $4 an hour. That in turn, would eventually lower the cost of everything else, bread, milk, eggs, even gas, and rent. Raising the minimum wage just raises the cost of everything else. If you own a store and you have to pay some youngster $7 or $8 an hour to sweep and stock shelves, then you will obviously have to raise the cost of your goods in order to cover the cost of labor and still turn a profit.
I get irritated when I hear the minimum wage is going up. Why did I work on a gas dock as a boy for $4 and hour and the same gas dock employee now gets $7+? Did the job get harder?

And Greenster no offense I was using your comments as an example only. You are obviously too smart to spend your life working minimum wage, mindless jobs. You are worth the $18 an hour that you demand, in the proper skilled position. I just wouldn't hire you to rake my lawn. My lawn gets raked by big strapping kid that is smart like a tractor. :thumbsup:
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Postby don taylor » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:46 am

I'm a Union Steelworker so let me give you the anti union take on Minimum wage.

What happens is union pay scales are based on the minimum wage. When the Dems fight for a wage hike, they are NOT doing it for the minimum wage earners. They are doing it for the unions. When Minimum wage goes up 15% the union pay scale goes up 15% so your 50¢ raise at $6.50 take you to $7.00 per hour but takes the union worker making $30.00 per hour to $34.50. That's what angers me and I'm union. I work in a Union shop. I'm not like a regular union guy. I have contracted raises. I know that regardless of what happens to the economy I'll get my raise.
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Postby Pillowcasr » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:34 pm

wait a minute don.......your telling me you don't like getting a pay raise? Whatever.
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