Yo Soy El Army -- should CITIZENSHIP be Granted for Serving?

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Yo Soy El Army -- should CITIZENSHIP be Granted for Serving?

Postby bluewing77 » Wed May 21, 2008 12:30 pm

saw this on a bumper sticker in ABQ the other day.

http://juantornoe.blogs.com/hispanictre ... -army.html

have you hugged a brown person today? :biggrin:
Last edited by bluewing77 on Wed May 21, 2008 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby bluewing77 » Wed May 21, 2008 3:30 pm

OK Sorry for the Late EDIT -- but here is what i'm asking. if anyone, from any country is living here undocumented, and in an effort to show and prove loyalty to the US, decides to enlist, should they be granted citizenship when their service has ended? do they or do they not deserve citizenship after serving honorably in the US Armed Forces???

that's what some of the recruiters are promising, but these "immigrant soldiers" are a little naive about how the system works. and the ones granted citizenship the quickest are the ones coming back without a pulse.
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Postby Preacher1011 » Wed May 21, 2008 4:12 pm

Alright I'll put in my two cents. I think it's garbage that our military is ACTUALLY recruiting outside of our nation. That's one thing I've never understood, why do recruiters have to have quotas? Those are garbage. Quotas mean that the recruiters are going to feed kids a bunch of BS just to use them as a number. I had planned on going in the military, but medical stuff kept me out. I was in ROTC in highschool, so thankfully I knew when the recruiter was bs-ing me. I still got fed a bunch of crap though. I don't see how these recruiters going to foreign countries still have their jobs.

Another thing I'd like to know is how these "illegal soldiers" make it through boot camp. How do the DI's and fellow recruits understand them. From the article I understand that the one kid was in school for 6 months before he went in. There is no way you can learn enough english in 6 months to make it through boot camp.

This situation to me presents a hazard. Not only to our nation as a whole, but to these illegal's fellow soldiers. Take this for instance: You get caught in a firefight in the streets of Baghdad(sp?), your squad leader gets killed, now it's up to the foreign guy to give orders. No one can understand them... the whole squad gets killed. And why? Because some knuckle-headed recruiter needed some numbers.

Is that what you were looking for bluewing?
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Postby QUACK3XS » Wed May 21, 2008 5:11 pm

Preacher1011 wrote:I think it's garbage that our military is ACTUALLY recruiting outside of our nation.

They've done it for YEARS<DECADES....Phillipines(sp?) as a example

I had planned on going in the military, but medical stuff kept me out.

BOO-HOO as long as you love your country.....at least you tried :thumbsup:


Another thing I'd like to know is how these "illegal soldiers" make it through boot camp.

Everyone understands.....A BOOT IN THERE AZZ :rofl:

This situation to me presents a hazard. Not only to our nation as a whole, but to these illegal's fellow soldiers.


I agree with you....This can be a serious problem, It's becoming almost commonplace. When I was a young SEABEE there were some foriegn GI's going through the same training as me. Some of them were Jamacian & other ARAB, I couldn't understand a word :rofl: They sat the QUOTA system is no longer in use. I think they just don't call it that anymore........I'm sure they have something like NAVRECNUM :thumbsup:
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Postby Preacher1011 » Wed May 21, 2008 11:08 pm

Way to edit after I posted... Now me and QUACK look like we have half a brain. :rofl: Anywho, to answer your question simply... no they shouldn't. If you want to know why, my other post should explain it pretty well.
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Postby bluewing77 » Wed May 21, 2008 11:18 pm

Preacher1011 wrote:Way to edit after I posted... Now me and QUACK look like we have half a brain. :rofl:


thats the way i roll.
my fault -- i'm not always as clear as i'd like to be, i realized that after i read the responses.
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Postby QUACK3XS » Wed May 21, 2008 11:51 pm

Preacher1011 wrote:Way to edit after I posted... Now me and QUACK look like we have half a brain. :rofl:



You got HALF :huh: then I must have ZERO :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I know quite a few guys that married Phillipinos ........only to find themselves DIVORCED after 7 years. Funny how that works out when they become citizens :thumbsdown:
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Postby rman114 » Thu May 22, 2008 3:06 pm

Hmm i would say yes.
If they have the commitment to successfully serve in the military then they deserve to be citizens when their commitment is over.
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Postby Pumpgunner » Thu May 22, 2008 6:37 pm

I think that it's a good idea, and a sign that the military is finding it harder to find the manpower to fight an unpopular war. By the way, didn't the Union do the same thing with immigrants during the Civil War?
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Postby CLUTCHfan » Thu May 22, 2008 8:01 pm

I would say grant them citizenship, however, I think that the military could have a pre-basic training program to help assimilate them before basic, and the they could be divided up for actual basic. Could be a program that helps instill American culture, values, and our language in them before actual training.

During the Civil war, both sides recruited new immigrants into their armies. Often times, right off the boats. Both the North and the south had Irish Regiments.
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Postby don taylor » Thu May 22, 2008 8:39 pm

What is wrong with you guys? Why in the hell would we want foreigners in our military? To steal secrets? To spy? To set bombs in the barricks? Didn't we have a incident happen in Iraq that was similar? A guy tossing gernades on our soldiers? Why don't we get a little backbone in this country? We are so freakin weak now, YOU GUYS WANT TO OUTSOURCE OUR MILITARY.

Bad idea.

Comprende?
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Postby captainduckhead » Thu May 22, 2008 9:14 pm

That's a tough question as well. I initially had the same concerns as Donny Taylor. It seems to be ripe for espionage, and covert operations. Let a foreign, illegal in who is actually acting on behalf of the enemy.
However, If an illegal immigrant comes to the country with his heart in the right place and wants to fight for Uncle Sam, then of course he deserves citizenship status when his duty is over.
It would be very hard to distinguish between the bad seeds and the good seeds, like that movie "The Departed" only on a major scale.
Initially I was with Bluewing (the closet illegal). But Crazy Don has me wondering now.
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Postby gangrig25 » Thu May 22, 2008 9:36 pm

QUACK3XS wrote:
Preacher1011 wrote:Way to edit after I posted... Now me and QUACK look like we have half a brain. :rofl:



You got HALF :huh: then I must have ZERO :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I know quite a few guys that married Phillipinos ........only to find themselves DIVORCED after 7 years. Funny how that works out when they become citizens :thumbsdown:


It was fun while it lasted :rofl: :rofl:
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Postby QUACK3XS » Thu May 22, 2008 9:53 pm

don taylor wrote: YOU GUYS WANT TO OUTSOURCE OUR MILITARY.



:huh: I think we've been doing that since the revolution, sorry your just now learning about it :rofl:
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Postby CLUTCHfan » Thu May 22, 2008 9:58 pm

QUACK3XS wrote:
don taylor wrote: YOU GUYS WANT TO OUTSOURCE OUR MILITARY.



:huh: I think we've been doing that since the revolution, sorry your just now learning about it :rofl:


Touche
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Postby don taylor » Fri May 23, 2008 4:56 am

This isn't 1861 we are living in. Their are serious consequences I thought for sure you would recognize. I know what your saying about armies past, that they were comprised of foreigners. That's not even a reality anymore. Back then a guy could do very little by himself. Now he can strap a bomb on himself and take out a federal office or a crowded room of soldiers.

I'm out of this arguement. This shouldn't even be a discussion. Its a bad idea.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri May 23, 2008 7:54 am

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hey, it worked in south park :biggrin:
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Postby QUACK3XS » Fri May 23, 2008 11:48 am

don taylor wrote:This isn't 1861 we are living in. Their are serious consequences I thought for sure you would recognize. I know what your saying about armies past, that they were comprised of foreigners. That's not even a reality anymore. Back then a guy could do very little by himself. Now he can strap a bomb on himself and take out a federal office or a crowded room of soldiers.

I'm out of this arguement. This shouldn't even be a discussion. Its a bad idea.


Donny, I don't think anyone disagree with you. I don't know what the answer is ?
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Postby dudejcb » Sat May 24, 2008 7:47 am

bluewing77 wrote:OK Sorry for the Late EDIT -- but here is what i'm asking. if anyone, from any country is living here undocumented, and in an effort to show and prove loyalty to the US, decides to enlist, should they be granted citizenship when their service has ended? do they or do they not deserve citizenship after serving honorably in the US Armed Forces???

that's what some of the recruiters are promising, but these "immigrant soldiers" are a little naive about how the system works. and the ones granted citizenship the quickest are the ones coming back without a pulse.

great thread bluewing. very though provoking.

I don't like recruiting in high schools and it's a form a class warfare to go after the poor.

I do think anyone who serves should be granted citizenship... and so should their immediate family... even those who may not necessarily serve as a soldier... but works on our behalf in a war situation--like the iraqi interpreters, or the Mong (sp?) who fought on our side in Vietnam.
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Postby dudejcb » Sat May 24, 2008 7:55 am

don taylor wrote:What is wrong with you guys? Why in the hell would we want foreigners in our military? To steal secrets? To spy? To set bombs in the barricks? Didn't we have a incident happen in Iraq that was similar? A guy tossing gernades on our soldiers? Why don't we get a little backbone in this country? We are so freakin weak now, YOU GUYS WANT TO OUTSOURCE OUR MILITARY.

Bad idea.

Comprende?

I doubt most aliens would be promoted to general. yup, a few would be bad seeds... but we have a few of those internally already... remember the soldier who rolled a grenade into a tent a while back.

We're already outsourcing our military (and inteligence services) to Blackwater and othe "contractors" for huge money... I'd prefer it if we kept these tasks within our government where profit is less of a motive and therefore less opportunity for conflict of interests.
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Postby Preacher1011 » Sat May 24, 2008 9:56 am

dudejcb wrote:
bluewing77 wrote:OK Sorry for the Late EDIT -- but here is what i'm asking. if anyone, from any country is living here undocumented, and in an effort to show and prove loyalty to the US, decides to enlist, should they be granted citizenship when their service has ended? do they or do they not deserve citizenship after serving honorably in the US Armed Forces???

that's what some of the recruiters are promising, but these "immigrant soldiers" are a little naive about how the system works. and the ones granted citizenship the quickest are the ones coming back without a pulse.

great thread bluewing. very though provoking.

I don't like recruiting in high schools and it's a form a class warfare to go after the poor.



How does it go after the poor? Most people I know going in the military aren't poor at all. They are kids just like me. Middle classed teenagers that want to give a little bit back to their country that they've taken. Just the way I tried to do and will do in some sort of fashion. Everybody I know who's gone in, their families can all afford to put them through college but they choose the military instead. Not because of the benefit of college, but because they want to.
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Postby dudejcb » Sun May 25, 2008 10:27 am

there are a lot of guys around here that sign up just because they're patriotic... like in you neighborhood.

But in other areas they do target the poor cuz their economic situation makes it a little easier to recruit than when some better off kids have other options... like college, or a job. or whatever. It;s an easier sell when the GI bill represents a possible way out of the cycle of poverty. If I were in their shoes (the recruiters) and needed to fill a quota, logic would tell me to do the same thing.

But when I listen to my moral compass it seems a little different. the recruiter aren't to blame... it just is what it is.
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Postby Preacher1011 » Sun May 25, 2008 10:31 am

So what's wrong with recruiting in high schools? Is it all that much different than having colleges come in and sit?
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Postby dudejcb » Sun May 25, 2008 8:26 pm

Preacher1011 wrote:So what's wrong with recruiting in high schools? Is it all that much different than having colleges come in and sit?
I'm not familiar with colleges "coming in to sit."

generally, most of the high school seniors I run across dont;s have the life experience to make life and death decisions... whihc is why they are easier to sell on the notion of signing up. So I don't like our schools providing recruitment access without my knowledge.

I wouldn't like it if they gave the circus access to recruit either. I don't like banks sending my kids credit card offers either. As a parent I would prefer to talk with my kids about their ideas for the future before I'm put into the position of having to try and unsell him/her on what I think may be a poor decision... or a decision that doesn't consider other alternatives. It's a concerned parent thing.
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Postby Preacher1011 » Sun May 25, 2008 8:41 pm

I understand. Especially about those credit cards... :thumbsdown:
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