The global warming hoax lives

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The global warming hoax lives

Postby don taylor » Thu May 29, 2008 1:20 pm

Lieberman werner. How many of you are going to let this go unnoticed? This WILL raise gas prices and this WILL limit American productivity and limit our growth.

They have completely lost it in Washington. God help us.
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Postby Preacher1011 » Thu May 29, 2008 5:35 pm

I heard the other day that they are now talking about global cooling now. I heard that they say the sun is cooler than it's ever been. Explain to me how it goes from global warming to cooling in a matter of weeks. :huh:
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Postby Montanafowler » Thu May 29, 2008 5:57 pm

Preacher1011 wrote:I heard the other day that they are now talking about global cooling now. I heard that they say the sun is cooler than it's ever been. Explain to me how it goes from global warming to cooling in a matter of weeks. :huh:


because Al Gore said so.
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Postby captainduckhead » Thu May 29, 2008 7:47 pm

Keep everyone scared one way or the other. I think it's more like a shift in climates, areas that were cold are warming up, areas that were warm are cooling down, it's bound to happen. Either way I'm going to shoot some ducks this fall.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri May 30, 2008 5:15 am

there is no more global warming.... they have changed their story to be called global climate change... just in case they were wrong, they are still right :rolleyes:
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Postby jeff_osu » Fri May 30, 2008 6:19 am

People always show this graph of the last century:
Image

as if it is supposed to mean something. However, a broader look at the issue shows that we are experiencing a small spike in a larger downward trend.

http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/g ... slarge.gif
(big image, stretches thread)
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Postby seastreet » Fri May 30, 2008 6:53 am

jeff_osu wrote:People always show this graph of the last century:
Image

as if it is supposed to mean something. However, a broader look at the issue shows that we are experiencing a small spike in a larger downward trend.

http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/g ... slarge.gif
(big image, stretches thread)


What alot of people don't bother to question is...

Are the spikes in CO2 a result of rising temps, or the other way around? Articles I have read suggest that solar activity is being blamed now, because of global warming on Venus, Mars & Jupiter. Many scientists are suggesting that the CO2 spike is reactionary to the temp rise, and not the actual cause of the temp rise. I have even seen an article where a glacier completely melted somewhere in northern Europe, where scientist insisted that this had not happened ever before, and when the archeologist began to explore, found primitive mining tools and human remains. It proved that the ice had melted before. So what caused it? Fossil fuel burning? Increased solar activity? What caused the record global warming of the medieval period? Still too many questions to be answered, but the politicians are driving the science towards pre-determined conclusions in order to dismantle capitalism and install socialism, before the actual cause is really determined.
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Postby don taylor » Fri May 30, 2008 7:23 am

This thread is about laws that are going to change our lives What I'm getting at here guys is liberman werner is a bill that is based on the flawed science that is global warming. They are starting to make laws and decisions that are going to effect our economy, job market, fuel cost, electrical supply, everything will be regulated so much their will be no room for growth left. It seems most of you guys haven't noticed it yet. Where is the mainstream media on this topic that comes up next week in congress?

I'm disappointed in you most of all, Seastreet. I figured you of all people would be hammering this anti capitalist scheme. Maybe I had you all wrong.
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Postby seastreet » Fri May 30, 2008 8:10 am

don taylor wrote:I'm disappointed in you most of all, Seastreet. I figured you of all people would be hammering this anti capitalist scheme. Maybe I had you all wrong.


Dude... I'm with you. I've said all along it is more about dismantling capitalism, rather than protecting the environment. If you look at the older people that are driving this movement, it is the same people who were driving the Vietnam era's anarchy and communist movement. Al Gore refuses to debate anyone on the issue and has proclaimed the debate "over and beyond contestation". In other words, he wants everyone to shut up and swallow his anti-capitalistic gestapo without question. IMHO, that is just as bad as those who suggest that anyone who dared criticized Bush for his blind loyalty to Don Rumsfeld and his total botched job in managing the Iraq war during the first 3 years, as unpatriotic.

The debate is not over, and the science is not settled. New evidence is being uncovered everyday that directly contradicts the so called "scientific consensus" that has been shoved down our throats.

There is nothing wrong with being green minded in order to be good stewards of our planet, but make it a free market approach. Government intervention will only hamper and weaken our economy. Incentives for being green also help, but outright laws will destroy our economy and raise prices dramatically. Look at the ethanol scam for example.
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Postby Das booted » Fri May 30, 2008 12:08 pm

idahofowler wrote:
Preacher1011 wrote:I heard the other day that they are now talking about global cooling now. I heard that they say the sun is cooler than it's ever been. Explain to me how it goes from global warming to cooling in a matter of weeks. :huh:


because Al Gore said so.


Anybody see a 2nd Nobel Prize coming soon. Park the SUV or you'll cause a second Ice Age.

Heck cooling/warming it won't matter anybody seen the price of pasta/bread/etc due to ethenol subsides that are going to save the earth - we'll all starve to death before we freeze or bake. :eek:
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Postby dudejcb » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:51 am

man o man there are some conspiracy theories going on here.

obviously there are a lot of factors the influence global temperatures, and the earth is a pretty vast and dynamic system. But the science seems to indicate there is a relationship between greenhouse gases and temeratures.

Global cooling that I've heard of on such far left programs as NOVA had to do with global shading due to high particulate concentrations in the air that dimished the intensity of the sun's rays and affected evaporation rates... whihc is how they discovered something was happening.

In reality, it doesn't matter if you believe or not. The rest of the world does and they are moving ahead on that basis. If we want to complete we need to move ahead also. This will be akin to the industrial revolution in terms of impact and opportunity. Jobs will be created and some jobs will be lost. Economic evolution.

I recall about 20 years ago my manage asking me if environmental engineering was just a fad that would fade. My degree has an environmental emphaisis, and covered hazardous waste treatment as well as clean air and water... so the answer then was NO, it's not a fad and it's only going to become more relevant. I'll stand by that statement now.
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Postby ALMODUX » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:38 pm

So when the rest of the world and science ends up looking stupid, we need to make sure we're in that boat with them...just so they aren't mad at us and all? :lol: :rofl:
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Postby VGM-Hunter » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:58 pm

If its gonna switch, where it is warm its gonna be cold and cold gonna be warm, I'm gonna buy my place back in NY because its gonna be the Sunshine state Right? are the ducks gonna change too? Maybe I'll keep my house in Western NC because the Duck will be the best hunting around...because its ruff now!!
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Postby dudejcb » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:05 am

ALMODUX wrote:So when the rest of the world and science ends up looking stupid, we need to make sure we're in that boat with them...just so they aren't mad at us and all? :lol: :rofl:

That's one silly way to look at it. More importantly, if they (the rest of the world: Eurpope, Japan, Asia, Australia, South America, et.al.) beleive it and they set standards to comply with Kyoto--AND WE WANT TO ABLE TO COMPETE AND SELL OUR PRODUCTS INTO A WORLD MARKETPLACE--then we need to be on a level playing field with our competition to facilitate that. It makes economic and marketing sense.

I've written this before but some didn't see it, so here goes again.

Large international retailers and others (McDonalds, WalMart, Carrfoure, Tesco, etc.) are all beginning to respond to their customers' concerns about climate change and want to offer products that are more environmentally friendly. (You may have noticed that McDonalds has gone back to paper--only now it's recycled--packaging for Big Macs. etc.) They have ntoified their suppliers that they will comply with Kyoto and ascertain their "carbon footprint" which will include all inputs from cradle to grave.

Cradle to grave carbon footprinting, say for McDonalds French fries, includes the fuel, fertilizer and energy used by the farmer; transport to the processing plant; processing energy and chemicals; delivery to retail distributors; and packaging. This same approach will apply to any product or activity in all industries.

So, if we as a nation want to have an economy that goes beyond our borders we need to respond in the same way our trade partners are even if carbon cap and trade legislation does not come to fruition here. It's a de facto reality.

If you're curious how anyone would establish their carbon footprint or how it would be enforced, I can go into it, but have written enough here for now to at least respond to your comment.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:12 am

dudejcb wrote:Large international retailers and others (McDonalds, WalMart, Carrfoure, Tesco, etc.) are all beginning to respond to their customers' concerns about climate change and want to offer products that are more environmentally friendly. (You may have noticed that McDonalds has gone back to paper--only now it's recycled--packaging for Big Macs. etc.) They have ntoified their suppliers that they will comply with Kyoto and ascertain their "carbon footprint" which will include all inputs from cradle to grave.
What's the carbon footprint for a pack of cigarettes? I'm sure Phillip Morris will be getting on board. Give the customer what they want, even if it kills them. Isn't that the corporate motto?
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Postby dudejcb » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:20 am

you're right. If it sells and there's a profit potential it will be done.

for the last few years I've been doing a lot of industrial energy efficiency work (pumping systems, steam systems, refrigeration, cogeneration... all the big energy users) with some really large food processing companies. Most of what I know about this stuff started from hearing and talking with the expert speakers that they have as presenters at their annual industry conferences. Guys who have done work all over the globe and understand it and how it works. American companies see it coming and are getting ready.

Plus, the government (from the feds to the states, to the cities) are all signing on to the 25 x 25 program: generating or reducing our energy by 25% by the year 2025. So the train is rolling down the tracks and might as well get on board, or get left beind.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:52 am

So if the world decided to hell with global warming, pollution control, etc. Would you get on board? Most people outgrow this kind of thinking before they get out of high school.

It may make business sense, but that doesn't mean it scientifically true or untrue or the right thing to do. I thought that is what we were debating. Not the best way for the greedy corporations to become even richer. I knew you were a closet corporate tycoon.
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Postby Tangier Island Slacker » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:18 am

pennsyltucky wrote:there is no more global warming.... they have changed their story to be called global climate change... just in case they were wrong, they are still right :rolleyes:


When you don't know something, just make up stuff to go along with whatever you hope is correct.
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