Evolution vs. Intelligent Design vs. Creationism

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Evolution vs. Intelligent Design vs. Creationism

Postby bluewing77 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:20 pm

www.godandscience.org

www.theory-of-evolution.net

(the links in my threads dont necessarily reflect my own views) -- some i think are just funny

my wife has Bachelor's of Science in Microbiolgy and currently teaches high school chemistry and biology. without fail, every year, some well meaning evangelical parent(s) ask (harass) her about why she cant/wont teach a unit on intelligent design. Which she responds by handing them a copy of a memo from the NM State Secretary of Education (2005) that states what can and cant be taught in public schools. (and what should be taught in sunday school) separation of church and state?
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Postby Redline29 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:37 pm

There is no such thing as seperation of church and state.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

See...not in there. All it states is that there will not be a state run religion. (the govenment says we will all be methodist) I would like to know why both can't be taught. OHHHHHHHH thats right, libs are threatend by a higher power other than their own.

It is freedom OF religion..not freedom FROM religion.
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Postby HotDog » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:14 pm

I can have no faith in the belief that we could evolve from some primordial slime after a " big bang".

My faith lies with our Lord God.
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Postby LIGHT12 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:27 pm

I laugh because most people that believe in true evolution also believe in the chaos theory, don't those two pretty much counter act each other
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Postby pennsyltucky » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:47 pm

LIGHT12 wrote:I laugh because most people that believe in true evolution also believe in the chaos theory, don't those two pretty much counter act each other



i laugh too, but its at the fairy tales some folks believe. when cold hard scientific facts or proof stares them in the face, they still cover their eyes so as "not to be deceived" blah blah...

and no, they dont counteract. different theories altogether.
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Postby REDLEG » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:03 am

" a legitimate conflict between science and religion cannot exist. science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" Each can draw the other into a wider world that both can flourish in. Redline29 pretty well sumed it up in the church and state topic.
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Postby gsurko » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:58 am

HotDog wrote:I can have no faith in the belief that we could evolve from some primordial slime after a " big bang".

My faith lies with our Lord God.


Then how do you explain those baggy pan, crooked hat Hip Hoppers? :rofl: :yes: :huh:
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Postby Montanafowler » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:58 am

gsurko wrote: Then how do you explain those baggy pan, crooked hat Hip Hoppers? :rofl: :yes: :huh:


They were just born retarded.
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Postby don taylor » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:32 am

Use science to explain how the first living organism emerged from inanimate material. What you would have me believe that a LIVING organism was spawned from a rock. Instead of discounting my faith, can you or anyone else come up with that puzzle piece? No? That's why they call it faith. I can buy into all of it except for the dawn of life. God's hand was surely at work.
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Postby don taylor » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:35 am

If life can be created by swirling gasses and rocks TOTALLY at random, why haven't we been able to create life from inanimate objects? You would think we could re-create similar conditions right?
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Postby captainduckhead » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:36 am

Don, I tend to lean in your direction on this one. The first signs of life on earth had to have come from some sort of higher being. But I believe whole heartedly in evolution. In fact it's not even a debateable subject. There are scientific facts, and supportive evidence to prove the theory of evolution. How life actually started, is the only debateable question, and that's where the religeous people still have a foothold in the discussion. It's the people that believe in the 7 day creation story as told in the book of Genesis that really frighten me. They totally ignore absolute bare facts, and believe in this folktale about earth and all life being made in 7 days, and they ignore the evidence. I always wonder if those same people would pray to little piles of twigs if the church told them to.
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Postby LaRedneck » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:07 am

Seven days is not actually belived as seven days. A day in the Lords life is actually more like 100's or thousands in ours.

So if evolutions is true based on scientific proof, then what are we to become in the future.
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Postby goldhunter470 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:24 am

Image


Pretty much sums it up.....
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Postby don taylor » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:19 pm

That pretty much sums up..

Nothing.

Can I sum up your atheism now?

Atheism. When your so dense you believe that living creatures came from rocks.
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Postby don taylor » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:23 pm

I just noticed that beautiful baby girl. Proof of Gods work.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:48 pm

captainduckhead wrote:But I believe whole heartedly in evolution. In fact it's not even a debateable subject. There are scientific facts, and supportive evidence to prove the theory of evolution.
There has never been scientific proof of evolution of one species to another species. Adaptation within a species is not debatable.

If that's not clear, despite all the wide range of breeds of dogs that have been developed through unnatural selection, it's still a dog. We've yet to start with a dog and end up with a cat, even though some dogs look more like cats or rats.

Evolution is as much a religion for some of it's proponents as the belief that God created the Earth in 144 hours.

God and evolution are not mutually exclusive any more than God and gravity are.

God and science do not conflict. The Bible tells what you should do and science tells you how to do it.

Whether we evolved from apes or there is intelligent life in some unreachable galaxy, has exactly zero impact on my life. I tend to believe evolution is how it worked a bazillion years ago, and I have no doubt that there is intellegent life 1,000's or millions of light years away. Even if I am wrong, it doesn't change a thing, so I really don't give a damn and I can't understand why people get so worked up about things that don't matter.

The fanatics that think they can scientifically disprove the existance of God are just as nuts as the people that believe the English version of the King James Bible is the exact perfect translation of the words of God originally spoken to the prophets.
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Postby Preacher1011 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:49 pm

CDH, evolution is a cold hard fact, that is correct. At least adaptive evolution like Darwin saw on the island I can't think of. However, no one can prove species to species evolution at all. Many scientists now do not believe in species to species evolution anymore because it can't be proven. I don't know how the earth was formed, but I do know God had a key role in it. How long it took I don't know. The Bible says to the Lord a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. Maybe God said let this happen and bang it happend (there's your big bang theory) or maybe he said let it happen and it took thousands of years. I don't know, it's one of those things I'll have to ask when I get up there.
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Postby goldhunter470 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:11 pm

don taylor wrote:That pretty much sums up..

Nothing.

Can I sum up your atheism now?

Atheism. When your so dense you believe that living creatures came from rocks.


Proof you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're" and you shouldn't go around calling people dense.

don taylor wrote:I just noticed that beautiful baby girl. Proof of Gods work.


Proof that sperm fertilizes an egg and a life is formed. And yes, she is beautiful. Thank you.
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Postby J Loves Huntin » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:29 pm

Yep evolution is definitely a religion. It takes TWICE as much faith to believe that aliens, the "BIG Bang", or other theories created life from non living objects. Even hundreds of prominent evolutionists admit that evolutionary theories are unprovable and unbelievable. :thumbsup: When the number of the chance that life would arise from non living objects you would have to have many TONS of paper to calculate the 00000's in the number. It is like a zillion times less likely than you getting chosen for the lottery :rolleyes: and thats slim. :lol:
There's no real proof that any major evolution happened, all "proof" have been proven hoaxes and yet are still in textbooks YEARS, some of them decades after being proven wrong. I know macro evolution never happened. Yes micro evolution can happen but it is not evolution at all it is adaptation. :yes:
Oh and if anyone needs more proof there are many ways of proving the earth is less than ten thousand years old.
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Postby cannon » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:42 pm

If evolution and the "big bang" = cold, hard, scientific fact, why do we refer to them as "theories"? It seems as simply preposterous to me that someone could assume to produce facts to substantiate the big bang theory as it would be for someone to claim the existence of facts substantiating the voice of God directing the penmanship of the Bible. I'm always amused by the passion invoked by the discussion, particularly with regards to those who are absolutely certain that carbon-14 dating is accurate -- just as they are that a big bang created a universe. We haven't any credible witnesses to interview on the subject now, do we?

Face it, we merely have theories and assumptions. Those assuming the accuracy of modern science have made their assumption in support of the theories propounded by science. Others, assuming the accuracy of the Bible, have made their assumption in support of the words recorded in the Bible. In the end, you'll make a decision regarding what you believe, even if that decision is to remain undecided. But for either side to assume to "prove" the other side wrong is both stupid and stubborn, which is a poor combination. Science can't prove it, theologists can't prove it, and neither can you. You can merely make assumptions, and, generally, piss folks off by sharing them.
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Postby bluewing77 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:51 pm

cannon wrote:You can merely make assumptions, and, generally, piss folks off by sharing them.


exactly. we cant prove anything regarding evolution. what i'm saying is that science is to be taught in science class by science teachers. if parents choose to send their children to christian schools then they should expect that their children be taught topics from a faith-based perspective (the Bible).

p.s -- Yes i think that the word "God" should be kept in the Pledge of Allegiance, for public and christian schools.
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Postby Skyblaster7 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:02 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
captainduckhead wrote:But I believe whole heartedly in evolution. In fact it's not even a debateable subject. There are scientific facts, and supportive evidence to prove the theory of evolution.
There has never been scientific proof of evolution of one species to another species. Adaptation within a species is not debatable.

If that's not clear, despite all the wide range of breeds of dogs that have been developed through unnatural selection, it's still a dog. We've yet to start with a dog and end up with a cat, even though some dogs look more like cats or rats.

Evolution is as much a religion for some of it's proponents as the belief that God created the Earth in 144 hours.

God and evolution are not mutually exclusive any more than God and gravity are.

God and science do not conflict. The Bible tells what you should do and science tells you how to do it.

Whether we evolved from apes or there is intelligent life in some unreachable galaxy, has exactly zero impact on my life. I tend to believe evolution is how it worked a bazillion years ago, and I have no doubt that there is intellegent life 1,000's or millions of light years away. Even if I am wrong, it doesn't change a thing, so I really don't give a damn and I can't understand why people get so worked up about things that don't matter.

The fanatics that think they can scientifically disprove the existance of God are just as nuts as the people that believe the English version of the King James Bible is the exact perfect translation of the words of God originally spoken to the prophets.


Spinnerman, there's gobs of proof that speciation exists. I think you're miscommunicating what you actually mean? You state that there is no proof of evolution of one species to another species. Well, there is proof. Enlighten me if I'm reading your post wrong.
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Postby jrockncash » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:15 pm

I have a good feeling this thread is going to end with everyone agreeing and being happy just to know one another.

Come on with the making fun of Typo's. :tongue:
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Postby Preacher1011 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:28 pm

jrockncash wrote:I have a good feeling this thread is going to end with everyone agreeing and being happy just to know one another.

Come on with the making fun of Typo's. :tongue:


You mean like how you capitalized "typos" and added and apostrophe? :rofl:
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Postby jrockncash » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:47 pm

:lol: Jerk :lol:
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