Evolution vs. Intelligent Design vs. Creationism

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Postby huntingdude16 » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:24 am

Now, was that so hard? :thumbsup:


Alright, you've given your example. So, let me get this straight. The reason you said 'anti-religious' instead of 'atheists' are because of those such as Marx and Hitler?


You don't believe in God, yet you seem to go the ignorance is bliss route.

I asked you to give an example, and now you have, and i'm not creating a big arguement against it.

On the other hand, theres statements such as 'theres no way my favorite duck could have come about without there being a higher power' and basicly putting the blinders on to any such talk otherwise.
THAT, would be correct to label 'ignorance is bliss'.
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Postby David » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:36 am

He never mentioned Hitler. In fact, Hitler was a Christian. Kind of makes Spinners comment about Marx being "responsible for more suffering and death than all the Christian fanatics that have ever existed," hard to believe.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:54 pm

No, but it was in the link he provided.

But, now that I do a 2 minute google search...

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm
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Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:33 am

But did you go a couple links down?

http://www.christiancadre.org/topics/hitler.html

"My conclusion is that Hitler, although he was brought up and confirmed as a Catholic, had abandoned Christianity by the time he was in control of Germany. Importantly though, he was not an atheist either. Read on to find out more…."

"Yes, he did make public claims to Christianity even while he was in power and persecuting Christians. But those public professions were simply lies. He made them in order to win the support of the German people, but in reality he wanted to do away with Christianity as it had hitherto been known and pervert it into a mere facade for Nazism and worship of himself as the ultimate leader."

In all honesty, I find the anyone who believes Hitler to have been a Christian is living in the heights of self-deception. Sure, he occasionally claimed Christianity, but nothing in his life reflects a true belief in Jesus. I have never seen anything that suggests that Hitler continued to attend church (church membership being something far different than being active in the church -- ask any pastor), or anything that suggests Hitler made himself accountable to a Pastor or Priest in anyway. In fact, his execution of Christian pastors, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, should be enough to convince anyone with half a brain that he was not a Christian.


I don't know about Hitler and his faith. He was the leader of the National Socialist party. Leftist philosophy is incompatible with Christianity, but many claim to be Christian because as Marx put it, they believe it is the opiate of the masses and if they are going to lead the masses, they need to lie until they get power. He clearly was not working with the church behind him because most of the good Christians and Catholics were fighting to save the jews, but there are always some whack jobs in any large group. Christianity makes you better, it doesn't make you perfect.

'theres no way my favorite duck could have come about without there being a higher power' I agree. That's a different statement than all life began a few thousand years ago. That statement does not even claim evolution is untrue. Evolution would not have happened without God's hand guiding it. God's miracles will never violate the laws of physics, which is why they can always be claimed to be pure chance. However, I do not believe everything is guided by the hand of God and every little thing that happens is a miracle of God. I like to play poker, but when I get a lucky run of cards, it is not God intervening. The other day when my house was hit by lightning and sparks shot out of the fire place and through my living room, that might have been God firing a warning shot :eek: Those people that thank God for every trivial little thing annoy me.
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Re: Evolution vs. Intelligent Design vs. Creationism

Postby bluewing77 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:50 pm

bluewing77 wrote:my wife has Bachelor's of Science in Microbiolgy and currently teaches high school chemistry and biology. without fail, every year, some well meaning evangelical parent(s) ask (harass) her about why she cant/wont teach a unit on intelligent design. Which she responds by handing them a copy of a memo from the NM State Secretary of Education (2005) that states what can and cant be taught in public schools. (and what should be taught in sunday school) separation of church and state?


and here is the memo included with the "Parent Packet" that kids are sent home with 1st of school. sure, its a little late, 8 pages later and all...


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Postby huntingdude16 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:26 pm

Somebody say something completly absurd, i'm having a hard time getting the motivation to post again. :help:
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
-Albert Einstein
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Postby huntingdude16 » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:48 pm

Christianity makes you better, it doesn't make you perfect.

So your saying your better than me.

'theres no way my favorite duck could have come about without there being a higher power' I agree. That's a different statement than all life began a few thousand years ago. That statement does not even claim evolution is untrue. Evolution would not have happened without God's hand guiding it.

See, this is whats funny about debating this. Couple hundred years ago, you would be laughed off as the village idiot for even partly believing in evolution. Now, it's said it's all apart of God's plan.

How did this arise you might ask? Simple. Religious folk realized they couldnt argue against evolution, so they decided to say evolution is caused by God.

And you know why they say this? Because it can't be proved wrong.

This is the frustration of debating religion from an Atheists point of view. Any time an arguement is thought up, the religious come back with 'well thats because of God'. :headbang:
And then go 'nananana' as if it's some sort of victory. :grooving:


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"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
-Albert Einstein
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Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:58 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:Christianity makes you better, it doesn't make you perfect.

huntingdude16 wrote:So your saying your better than me.
At knowing how to use the software. Yes. Learn to attribute the quotes.

It means I am a better person because I am a Christian than I otherwise would be. However, I am not perfect.

You also need to work on your reading comprehension. You cannot logically get from A to B.


SpinnerMan wrote:'theres no way my favorite duck could have come about without there being a higher power' I agree. That's a different statement than all life began a few thousand years ago. That statement does not even claim evolution is untrue. Evolution would not have happened without God's hand guiding it.

huntingdude16 wrote:See, this is whats funny about debating this. Couple hundred years ago, you would be laughed off as the village idiot for even partly believing in evolution. Now, it's said it's all apart of God's plan.
Not just evolution. The Theory of Relativity, etc. That is why mainstream Christians believe in education and science and have for a very long time. We do not know the details of how God set up the universe, but we are working on it, so we can improve everyone's lives.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:22 pm

At knowing how to use the software. Yes. Learn to attribute the quotes.

It means I am a better person because I am a Christian than I otherwise would be. However, I am not perfect.

You also need to work on your reading comprehension. You cannot logically get from A to B.

There is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension, thank you.
Christianity makes you better, it doesn't make you perfect.

You said it as a generality, that christianity makes you, as in ANY person, better. If you didnt mean it as a generality you sure as hell didnt imply it!

Not just evolution. The Theory of Relativity, etc. That is why mainstream Christians believe in education and science and have for a very long time. We do not know the details of how God set up the universe, but we are working on it, so we can improve everyone's lives.

Heh, I can already see it now. When a scientist finds out 'how it all got there', Christians will be right there to say 'God made it happen'. :no:
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
-Albert Einstein
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Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:00 am

huntingdude16 wrote:Heh, I can already see it now. When a scientist finds out 'how it all got there', Christians will be right there to say 'God made it happen'.
It takes a while, but you are learning. And the Atheists will be there saying we're wrong.

Let's work on a little reading comprehension.

I am a better person because I am a Christian. That statement means.

A) I'm better than you are.
B) Not a damn thing about our relative goodness.

Correct answer B.

Therefore you can conclude I believe which?
A) You are a bad person because you are not a Christian
B) You would be a better person than you currently are if you became a serious Christian.

Correct answer is B. However, I can safely conclude that you do not believe this. Otherwise, you woud be a Christian. However, you might believe this and still be an Atheist. Not everybody is rational.

Let's work on a little more reading comprehension.
Being a Christian makes you a better person, it does not make you perfect. Therefore we can conclude,
A) All Christians imperfect
B) I believe I am better than you.
Correct answer is A. I even believe all human beings are imperfect. That include you :eek: and me :oops: Not exactly a shocking conclusion.

You can even reasonably extrapolate that I believe Christians on average are better than Atheists on average. However, that tells you absolutely nothing about an individual. Are you better than some Christians? I have no doubt. Are you worse than some Christian? Yes. The same is true of me and Atheists. Am I better than you? How the hell should I know and I really don't care. The idea is to try and be a better person tomorrow than you are today and not worry about where you rate compared to other people.

However, I do believe you would be a better person if you were a Christian. Is this somehow shocking or offensive to you? It shouldn't be.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:38 pm

If your going to be an ass i'm not going to bother.
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
-Albert Einstein
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Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:05 pm

I hope you understand what I was saying. We will never agree on the existance or lack there of of God. I'm fine with that. It's just good to understand where the other person is coming from.

Your reading comprehension was flawed. It happens to everybody. I tried to be more polite about it, but sometimes you need to be an ass to get your point across.

BTW, I am serious about attributing the quotes. If somebody is doing somthing you like. Just hit the quote button and you can then see the coding that they used to do what they did.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:51 pm

Like I said, not going to bother. :thumbsdown:
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
-Albert Einstein
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