Evolution vs. Intelligent Design vs. Creationism

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Postby rmh » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:09 am

Preacher1011 wrote:How about we all just get along. Let's play a good old fashioned game of grab butt.


Ahh man Preacher, are you back on to the gay threads again?
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Postby wackemstackem » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:59 am

Homo alert :eek:
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Postby dudejcb » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:46 pm

I've been busy the last several days and have missed out on this reconvening of the Flat Earth Society.

Hmmm. did God create life, or did he create the conditons for life? Has anyone asked Him/Her? What did He/She say?

A fe won here have asserted that there is no evidence of one species evolving into another species. I guess this implies that birds did nt evolve from dinosaurs, and the ducks we shoot are not at all related to one another. Yeah, that sounds right...Duh!

And just becasue we share 99% of our genes with Chimpanzee's cerainly doesn't mean we have a shared ancestor. It just a fluke that our genetic material os so similar.

I will be coming back with the link to the Flying Spaghettii Monster religion. They make a very compelling case for teaching intelligent design and Flying Spaghetti Monster beliefs so our children won't-- you know--be brainwashed by scary liberal scientists who believe it when they see fossils that look similar to one another but are separated by time and morphology. Some of those scientists also believe that chemical reactions and evolution may just be God's way of creating life.
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Postby dudejcb » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:58 pm

Here is the link to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster web site. they even have a place to post their hate mail and man o man you should see what the religious people are saying to the FSM guys. they're not mincing words or hatred!

In case you don't get it, this website is a joke with a point. The point was/is that if we teach intelligent design according to one person's take on how life came about... then we have to teach all the other ideas on how life began as well... the government isn't supposed to play favorites with religions so it's either all or none... that was their point.

However, in making their point they came up with some seriously funny stuff. Like linking global warming to a decrease in the number of pirates and then showing their data. I like to think God has a sense of humor...

Enjoy. http://www.venganza.org/
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Postby Tangier Island Slacker » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:05 pm

don taylor wrote:your so dense


Heh.
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Postby dudejcb » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:21 pm

Tangier Island Slacker wrote:
don taylor wrote:your so dense


Heh.
Tangier, if you're pointing that at me... please show me your mensa club membership. If that's asking too much, I'll settle for your college transcripts, or maybe your major and overall GPA.
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Postby Preacher1011 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:57 pm

dudejcb wrote:
Tangier Island Slacker wrote:
don taylor wrote:your so dense


Heh.
Tangier, if you're pointing that at me... please show me your mensa club membership. If that's asking too much, I'll settle for your college transcripts, or maybe your major and overall GPA.


:moon: GRAB. Dude, you're it...

I guess if we want to get back to the homo threads we can, that almost got salway gunner banned though. Then who would jehler have to get his funny names from? It would be the end of jehler's comedic career.
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Image
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Postby rmh » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:11 pm

I don't know Preacher, you're the one that suggested "grab butt".
And more than Salway Gunner almost got suspended, so no more grab butt talk ok? It makes dude uncomfortable.
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Postby Tangier Island Slacker » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:04 pm

dudejcb wrote:
Tangier Island Slacker wrote:
don taylor wrote:your so dense


Heh.
Tangier, if you're pointing that at me... please show me your mensa club membership. If that's asking too much, I'll settle for your college transcripts, or maybe your major and overall GPA.


Read it again, this time concentrating on irony.
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Postby cannon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:27 pm

dudejcb wrote:The point was/is that if we teach intelligent design according to one person's take on how life came about... then we have to teach all the other ideas on how life began as well... the government isn't supposed to play favorites with religions so it's either all or none... that was their point.


Agreed, but if we're teaching the big bang THEORY, aren't we merely teaching someone's ideas on how life began? Again, even science doesn't claim it to be fact, but a theory.

At first blush, it seems simple because we're blinded by our own beliefs and ideals. However, when you dig into the matter, it presents a fairly difficult paradigm. Creationists believe that God created life. Belief that it was a random chemical reaction is, in its purest form, atheism. You have fairly large segments of American society that passionately embrace one belief or the other, and dozens of other cultures that embrace a thousand other faiths. If you teach a purely atheistic curriculum, you offend millions of Christians. If, however, you even include a notation that Christians and other religious sects believe in a creator, you offend millions of atheists. Either way, you step on someone's closely held beliefs.

The conflict won't be resolved by hurling insults or referring to folks as stupid, dense, or anything that disregards the intellect of those who harbor one belief or another. And for the record, those of you, here, who claim to be Christians and attempt to qualify your beliefs by insulting those who don't believe, or by telling them that they'll burn in hell for rejecting what you say, should be ashamed of yourselves. Christianity refers to those who resemble Christ, who you'll find was only hard on those who claimed to be the elect of God. With respect to the people who didn't claim to be spiritually superior, he absolutely taught forgiveness, tolerance, patience, gentleness, and love. Stop bashing people you don't know for refusing to embrace the one you call your savior.
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Postby LIGHT12 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:03 pm

cannon,


Thank you. The rest of you read his post and try to use it as an example of how to act in a public forum. All to often we get wrapped up in emotion and say and do things paying no attention to our own actions. My grand mother often told me not to argue with an idiot. A stranger looking on won't be able to tell who is who. Just as she often told me the things I do and the things I say reflect not only on me but on my family's name. Keep those things in mind. No one on here is beneathe anyone else. No one here is dumber than than next guy.

A Christain can be just as arrogant and condicending as anyone can be. As a Christian your supposed to live a life of action. Do your best to not be angry, not be envious, be comfortable in yourself. Show by your actions who you are. Arguing will get you no where.

For non believers. Remember the same. How you are veiwed especailly in a forum like this is based on your actions.

I never get why people come on Duck Forums to argue. I'm here to have fun. And meet new people and talk. Complain about work and my personal life on occasion. And hopefully meat some new people to hunt with some day.

For you Christians or all of you read the Book of James, in the bible. I am currently going thru it with a bible study group. If you look into what it says. It is a very deep short read. And I believe it sums christianity up pretty well. It is really what your faith is about.

And thanks you guys for playing much nicer lately. I was starting to think if you guys kept pushing the lines I was going to resign my post. LOL.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:12 pm

Yep, and mine are more valid than anyone else's. Isn't that what everybody says?

Actually, nobody's beliefs are more valid than other's. Somebody is right and somebody is wrong. We simply will never know, which one of us is correct, but we can fight like hell over it in the meantime. It's a safe thing to argue about because you will never be proven wrong.

That is true. However, you CAN discuss which belief is more logical. :wink:

What would the evidence of God look like? There have been a lot of eye witnesses.

It's not that there is evidence. It's that there ISNT evidence.

It's like, say your looking for sign of deer, but don't know what your looking for. Say you find a set of tracks, but you don't know what their of. Alright, you at least know there is a chance you may have found a deer.

However, if you don't find any sign of anything after looking for every possible detail, what are you left to conclude? Would it be wiser to conclude that their are simply no deer in the area, or to say, "well they still might be here"?

Do you see what I mean?


I personally don't believe that. I believe any good person will get to heaven if they try to live a good life and are truly sorry for their mistakes. There are passages that suggest Christ or hell and others that suggest what I believe. I agree many Christians don't believe what I believe. I don't know if I'm in the majority or minority for this opinion. I believe I will know the answer some day. I hope I'm right.

I believe the rules are the same no matter what your faith and we all come to virtually the same conclusions if we truly believe all people are equal. Whether it's in the eyes of God or not doesn't make a practical difference.

Well, then I say it's a bit funny of you to suggest I'll go to hell if I'm wrong...

That's God you are feeling.

Really? I thought it was a Catholic Priest..... :biggrin: :tongue:


You obviously will one day find out . The question is what will your decision be. For all of those who believe God is creator or those who believe that evolution happened both can still have eternal life despite their past fallacies. Jesus was human after all and although he Himself never made mistakes, He was surrounded by siblings, parents, friends and finally disciples who made a LOT. Look at Peter he completely denied that he even knew Jesus or had even met the man ( his own words in Matt 26: 69-74.) that a big mistake and yet Jesus still forgave him. Peter went on to be one of the greatest world changers ever Because he was forgiven and choose to believe on Jesus as the Messiah.
Now for all of you who believe you can be a good person without ever accepting Christ, and while only being sorry of your sins, as both Savior and Lord, I have to tell you are most unfortunately wrong. Before you get crazy and tell me not to tell you flat out you are wrong let me show you some proof in the Bible. 1) Mark 14:6 I am the Way the Truth and the Light and no one comes to the Father but through me. 2) Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 3) Ephesians 2:7-9 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So as you can see neither works, actions, lifestyles or other religions can get you to heaven, ONLY faith in Jesus as the Savior of your soul and forgiver of your sins.
As I am sure most of you know John 3:16 I will use John 3:18 instead so not to bore you; John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Just want to make sure no one mistakenly believes that there are other ways or that there is no hell. Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
I want all of you to go to heaven and believe that God is creator. Maybe I am just nice, but I too have made many bad decisions and mistake on purpose and not on purpose and yet God still forgive me and he WOULD LOVE TO DO THE SAME FOR YOU!
If I offended anyone in telling the truth or as some would call it, my opinion of the truth, I hope you forgive me.

See, THIS is what bugs me. Like I said...
"Believe in me, or go to hell."

Sorry, that doesnt sit well with me. In fact, just the general attitude behind it gets a crystal clear "go {edit}" from me.

It sounds more like a dictator than anything....

Edit: I will admit that my use of language was a bit blunt and probably not nessisary. My point is, it's a bit contradictory to claim to be all-loving and the next to believe in me or burn in hell.

Agreed, but if we're teaching the big bang THEORY, aren't we merely teaching someone's ideas on how life began? Again, even science doesn't claim it to be fact, but a theory.

Gravity is also 'just a theory'.

Edited by mod for language.
Last edited by huntingdude16 on Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jehler » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:24 pm

gravity is a law not a theory
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Postby Redline29 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:27 pm

jehler wrote:gravity is a law not a theory



Thank you, I was just going to say that.
Last edited by Redline29 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
20 Jan 2009...the beginning of an error.
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Postby jrockncash » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:28 pm

Hey Tangier you got anything to add or just chippy comments that are neither funny or intelligent?
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Postby jehler » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:35 pm

Preacher1011 wrote: It would be the end of jehler's comedic career.


no career preach i work for free, and i have alot of untapped material don't worry.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:56 pm

My bad.... :huh:
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Postby don taylor » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:59 pm

Here I am thinking to myself "where's dude at? why hasn't he posted? surely he's not foolish enough to be a man of faith is he?"

Did anyone ask God? That's it ? That's all you got? I'm going to pray to God you get more inspiration to have a snappier answer next time.

You compare us to a chimp. Did you know we are 70% water and a bunch of carbon? I guess by your logic we are also related to seawater.

I'm not going to break down your atheist mumbo jumbo, I don't have the energy to go into the details of how your side is BUNK. But I will say this, its always entertaining to see how far left you can lean and still be able reach the keyboard to type.

I thought liberals were supposed to be accepting and the ones who promoted tolerance for others? It sure sounds like acceptance, diversity and tolerance for others is high on your list.

Oh that's right, your not a lib. :rofl:
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Postby Tangier Island Slacker » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:41 pm

jrockncash wrote:Hey Tangier you got anything to add or just chippy comments?


Nope, making fun of people is pretty much the extent of it.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:24 am

don taylor wrote:Here I am thinking to myself "where's dude at? why hasn't he posted? surely he's not foolish enough to be a man of faith is he?"

Did anyone ask God? That's it ? That's all you got? I'm going to pray to God you get more inspiration to have a snappier answer next time.

You compare us to a chimp. Did you know we are 70% water and a bunch of carbon? I guess by your logic we are also related to seawater.

I'm not going to break down your atheist mumbo jumbo, I don't have the energy to go into the details of how your side is BUNK. But I will say this, its always entertaining to see how far left you can lean and still be able reach the keyboard to type.

I thought liberals were supposed to be accepting and the ones who promoted tolerance for others? It sure sounds like acceptance, diversity and tolerance for others is high on your list.

Oh that's right, your not a lib. :rofl:

I find it amusing your getting so worked up because someone disagree's with your belief's. Don't take the time to insult if your not going to take the time to at least consider what I have to say. Right now you are sounding like a hypocrite.

Don't bother with your response to that. I already know what your response is...

"Your calling ME a hypocrite? Bladdy blah Atheists blah blah their the worst blubber blah liberals blah blah..."
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Postby jrockncash » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:39 am

Tangier Island Slacker wrote:
jrockncash wrote:Hey Tangier you got anything to add or just chippy comments?


Nope, making fun of people is pretty much the extent of it.


Fair enough. Looked like you had a bad week.



Hunting Dude thats not Don getting worked up. Don gets worked up for everything. :rofl: Wait till a PETA douche gets on here.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:31 am

SpinnerMan wrote:What would the evidence of God look like? There have been a lot of eye witnesses.

huntingdude16 wrote:It's not that there is evidence. It's that there ISNT evidence.

It's like, say your looking for sign of deer, but don't know what your looking for. Say you find a set of tracks, but you don't know what their of. Alright, you at least know there is a chance you may have found a deer.
What would God tracks look like? Many people feel the presence of God. Many claim to have witnessed God. Remember this is the belief in the supernatural. You think it's a myth and there is no supernatural. I do not.

You believe the incredible diversity and complexity of life that exists on Earth is pure happenstance. I think it's nearly indisputable proof of a higher power.

SpinnerMan wrote:However, if I am wrong, then I will never know. If you are wrong, you will know it someday. Image Isn't that ironic?

huntingdude16 wrote:Well, then I say it's a bit funny of you to suggest I'll go to hell if I'm wrong...
Come on that was funny.

I see you can't take a joke about your eternal soul? Maybe that is just a little doubt in your faith. It's always normal to question your faith. Even if it is a faith that their is no hell, heaven, or God in any form.

SpinnerMan wrote:That's God you are feeling.

huntingdude16 wrote:Really? I thought it was a Catholic Priest..... :biggrin: :tongue:

Did you like it? Not that there is anything wrong with that. Oh wait that's a different thread.
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Postby don taylor » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:12 am

[quote="huntingdude16"][quote="don taylor"]Here I am thinking to myself "where's dude at? why hasn't he posted? surely he's not foolish enough to be a man of faith is he?"

Did anyone ask God? That's it ? That's all you got? I'm going to pray to God you get more inspiration to have a snappier answer next time.

You compare us to a chimp. Did you know we are 70% water and a bunch of carbon? I guess by your logic we are also related to seawater.

I'm not going to break down your atheist mumbo jumbo, I don't have the energy to go into the details of how your side is BUNK. But I will say this, its always entertaining to see how far left you can lean and still be able reach the keyboard to type.

I thought liberals were supposed to be accepting and the ones who promoted tolerance for others? It sure sounds like acceptance, diversity and tolerance for others is high on your list.

Oh that's right, your not a lib. :rofl:[/quote]
I find it amusing your getting so worked up because someone disagree's with your belief's. Don't take the time to insult if your not going to take the time to at least consider what I have to say. Right now you are sounding like a hypocrite.

Don't bother with your response to that. I already know what your response is...

"Your calling ME a hypocrite? Bladdy blah Atheists blah blah their the worst blubber blah liberals blah blah..."[/quote]

I'm not mad and you won't be the one to tell me when to respond. In fact I'm going to look to post after you do all the time now. Blah Blah Ball cup blah blah blah liberal atheist blah blah.
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Postby dudejcb » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:33 am

cannon wrote: Belief that it (life) was a random chemical reaction is, in its purest form, atheism.
I disagree. Why can't God work a little less directly to make the possibilty of life happen?

cannon wrote: You have fairly large segments of American society that passionately embrace one belief or the other, and dozens of other cultures that embrace a thousand other faiths. If you teach a purely atheistic curriculum, you offend millions of Christians. If, however, you even include a notation that Christians and other religious sects believe in a creator, you offend millions of atheists. Either way, you step on someone's closely held beliefs.
I don't see science as atheistic. Science ties to understand nature as God has made it for us to see. It posits possible explanations and then seeks to either disprove or confirm those notions. The theories are not a matter of faith, but of what seems to be logical explanation given our understanding (or lack thereof) at that point in time.

cannon wrote: The conflict won't be resolved by hurling insults or referring to folks as stupid, dense, or anything that disregards the intellect of those who harbor one belief or another. And for the record, those of you, here, who claim to be Christians and attempt to qualify your beliefs by insulting those who don't believe, or by telling them that they'll burn in hell for rejecting what you say, should be ashamed of yourselves. Christianity refers to those who resemble Christ, who you'll find was only hard on those who claimed to be the elect of God. With respect to the people who didn't claim to be spiritually superior, he absolutely taught forgiveness, tolerance, patience, gentleness, and love. Stop bashing people you don't know for refusing to embrace the one you call your savior.
Good take. no, Great take!
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Postby huntingdude16 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:20 am

Hunting Dude thats not Don getting worked up. Don gets worked up for everything. Wait till a PETA douche gets on here.

I'de be happy to join him. :biggrin:

What would God tracks look like? Many people feel the presence of God. Many claim to have witnessed God. Remember this is the belief in the supernatural. You think it's a myth and there is no supernatural. I do not.

Thats just it, there are no tracks at all, of anything. Not for me anyway. That is why I have no faith.

You believe the incredible diversity and complexity of life that exists on Earth is pure happenstance. I think it's nearly indisputable proof of a higher power.

The earth is estimated at being around 4.5 billion years old, and life is estimated to have started to appear at the earliest, 3.7 billion years ago. That means it took 800 million years for the first signs to show. And also 3.7 billion years to get to where we are today. I'de say thats more than enough time to develop the rich ecosystems(the ones we havnt destroyed anyway) we have today.

Come on that was funny.

I see you can't take a joke about your eternal soul? Maybe that is just a little doubt in your faith. It's always normal to question your faith. Even if it is a faith that their is no hell, heaven, or God in any form.

The reason you find it funny is you are a believer. I'm not, so I don't find it to be much of a knee-slapper. :wink:

Did you like it? Not that there is anything wrong with that. Oh wait that's a different thread.

I didnt. I tried telling an adult, but they didnt believe me. Because, how could a priest do such a thing? :huh:

(this is a joke. a reversal of your joke, you probably don't find this funny)

I'm not mad and you won't be the one to tell me when to respond. In fact I'm going to look to post after you do all the time now. Blah Blah Ball cup blah blah blah liberal atheist blah blah.

I just said you shouldnt bother to post because I knew what you're going to say. Go ahead and make the post, but i've already seen the pre-views. :wink:

I don't see science as atheistic. Science ties to understand nature as God has made it for us to see. It posits possible explanations and then seeks to either disprove or confirm those notions. The theories are not a matter of faith, but of what seems to be logical explanation given our understanding (or lack thereof) at that point in time.

One thing i've noticed is that the status of science relating to God has changed a lot over time. Look at Charles Darwin and his time period. When he proposed that animals evolved, he was scoffed and laughed at, because everybody believed God created everything as it was and......yeah. Look at today. Now you have people saying evolution was all just apart of his plan. :huh:
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