pretty quiet in here as of late

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Postby carsonr2 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:49 am

I'm beginning to wonder if Mc Cain will be the "truly conservative" candidate come the actual election. In his latest speeches he has criticized the current administration to the point that he has begun to cross party boundaries. It would actually be wise for him to move to a more Independent standpoint, which he has done many, many times before. This may be the only way for a Conservative to get elected. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are unhappy with the current administration, and the further Mc Cain can separate himself from these ideologies the better off his campaign will be.
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Postby GroundSwatter » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:09 pm

This election is not much differenct from several of the previous elections. you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. To reference a southpark episode, you have to choose between a douche and a turd sandwich.

I agree with some people here, its coming to a point where you just want someone to be honest for once and if you felt like you could at least trust them to follow up on their beliefs instead of opinion polls we would be better off.

We need to somehow do away with a two party system. I know its probably the only way most candidates can get enough funding to run, but its ruining our government. Often the best candidates get overlooked b/c of party politics.

For me the lesser of two evils is McCain. He is "reasonably" honest , probably too honest for politics. I don't feel like he would violate our second ammendment rights.

With that in mind, I don't think he is just a great candidate but this is what we have to contend with in our two party system.
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Postby LIGHT12 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:46 pm

carsonr2 wrote:I'm beginning to wonder if Mc Cain will be the "truly conservative" candidate come the actual election. In his latest speeches he has criticized the current administration to the point that he has begun to cross party boundaries. It would actually be wise for him to move to a more Independent standpoint, which he has done many, many times before. This may be the only way for a Conservative to get elected. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are unhappy with the current administration, and the further Mc Cain can separate himself from these ideologies the better off his campaign will be.


Mc Cain has never been a conservative and never will be. He is a Republican but that does not make him a conservative. Bush in the same boat is no conservative. He ran on a conservative platform, and then expanded government and then let the Congress spend spend spend.

Mc Cains only conservative tendancy is hating pork barrel projects. Otherwise you can't find much that is democrat like about him. The incumbent reelection act. Or campaign finance refrom as most would call it was a slap a free speech. He's been after gun shows, and he has jumped on board with the dems far to often.

He has done many things in the past not for the betterment of the country or because he believed it was for that but to position himself for election as a rogue. But he has changed his tune when faced with realities. Admiting he may have been wrong. Look a ANWR.

He was against it to look good to the american people. But had he listened to Bush then we would not be in this mess today. Now with gas more than twice the price he is willing to look into a new energy policy. Better late than never.
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Postby seastreet » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:58 am

I just find it a bit hypocritical that no one has brought up the issue of Obama siding with Bush in regards to domestic spying in that he voted "yea" to grant immunity to the telecos for working with the government in violating citizens' rights to privacy. This very issue saw liberals hyperventilating over Bush wanting to spy on people, yet when Obama votes to protect it, you don't hear a peep from the same bunch of hypocrits.

I am against it, regardless who supports it. Anyone who voted "yea" on this bill isn't worthy of any elected office, and needs to be run out of town. Obama included.

And with the exception of raising taxes, can anyone name one subject that Obama hasn't changed his position on in the last 6 months? That jerk has waffled more than a short order cook in an IHOP.

Explain that one Brass Monkey. :rolleyes:
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Postby devildog28 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:28 am

seastreet wrote:
Explain that one Brass Monkey. :rolleyes:


Unfortunatly I don't think we will get one :rolleyes: As with all liberals he'll rant and say something about how bad bush is. And then try to avoid the question
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Postby grunt_doc » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:45 pm

Wait...you mean that you guys didn't know that George Bush is responsibile for everything bad thing that happened since Reagan and that once out of office Obama, Sean Penn, and Michael Moore will complete the Liberal Trinity and rainbows and candy will rain down from the sky and everything will be right and just in the world? You must be in ca-hoots with BIG OIL! That's the only reaistic explaination. Isn't it?

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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:19 pm

i doubt you'll be hearing from any brass monkeys... they dont tend to last long here :biggrin:
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Postby jehler » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:20 pm

Brass Monkey wrote:I understand what your trying to do here spinner, its called baiting. Basically what this thread is. Call me childish or selfish, I really don't care what you call me. You want me to respond to your questions so every one of your bandwagoners for the old guy can jump all over me about it.
if you believe in something why do you care who jumps on what? If you believed and debated maybe you could sway some votes your way. Are'nt you the one trolling with your sarcastic remarks?
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Postby jehler » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:21 pm

By the way...I'm electric...and if you touch me...you're gonna get shocked
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Postby huntingdude16 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:31 pm

I tend to consider myself an Independent because frankly, I have issues with both parties.


You guys wonder why a liberal doesnt last long here? Thats because 20 people jump down their throat and tell them how stupid and retarded they are. That isnt exactly inviting.

That said, if I had my choice of who to be president, of all the ones we started out with, I would have went with Paul.

Too bad the media never gave him a chance. It was always mccain-romney-gulliani-mccain-romney-mccain-romney-huckabee-mccain-romney-mccain......and once in a while they would mention this guy Ron Paul as somewhat of a joke. :mad:
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Postby Redline29 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:02 pm

huntingdude16 wrote:You guys wonder why a liberal doesnt last long here? Thats because 20 people jump down their throat and tell them how stupid and retarded they are. That isnt exactly inviting



No...that is not true. I have seen the guys on the right make more reasonable arguements and ask more intelligent questions that the libs will not and can not answer. Not once in this thread have i seen anybody call anybody stupid or retarded...i have however seen those on the left get defensive and shy away from defending their positions. intellectual dishonesty at it's finest. hence my sig line.

There, now i called them stupid.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:40 pm

Take a look at spinnerman's first post after brass monkeys first post.
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Postby Redline29 » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:00 am

huntingdude16 wrote:Take a look at spinnerman's first post after brass monkeys first post.


OK...and did spinnerman call him stupid? No he did not. However he did use the word "stupid" Context goes a long way...and that is something lost these days. Figure it out.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:43 am

It's not name calling to say an idea is stupid and then explain why. I said Obama & McCain had stupid ideas, which no one argues that they do. Everybody has some stupid ideas. Some even think I do :no:

I said liberals/progressive believe the average person is too stupid to care of themselves. I absolutely believe this. Why else do they want the government to be responsible for everything from feeding, clothing, health care, etc. If the average person can take care of themselves, then why would we need all these programs.

The problem is these programs to "help" the "hard working" Americans always have huge negative consequences and never make the perceived problem better. That in my opinion is the definition of a stupid idea.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:43 pm

You don't have to literally say 'your stupid and retarded' to certainly imply it. For instance:

"Liberals/progressives don't discuss. They make pronouncements from on high. They don't need to discuss and debate because they think they know everything for everybody and the minions are too stupid to feed themselves, cloth themselves, raise their children, protect themselves, etc."


Nobody is going to want to argue that because it is pointless.
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Postby jehler » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:52 pm

huntingdude16 wrote:You don't have to literally say 'your stupid and retarded' to certainly imply it. For instance:

"Liberals/progressives don't discuss. They make pronouncements from on high. They don't need to discuss and debate because they think they know everything for everybody and the minions are too stupid to feed themselves, cloth themselves, raise their children, protect themselves, etc."


Nobody is going to want to argue that because it is pointless.
actually, if you are a liberal and you do discuss you have mooted his point, that would be the point, thus not pointless. see dudejcb...an exeption to spinners rule.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:47 am

huntingdude16 wrote:You don't have to literally say 'your stupid and retarded' to certainly imply it. For instance:

"Liberals/progressives don't discuss. They make pronouncements from on high. They don't need to discuss and debate because they think they know everything for everybody and the minions are too stupid to feed themselves, cloth themselves, raise their children, protect themselves, etc."


Nobody is going to want to argue that because it is pointless.
I think you make my point. We don't have to argue that because it's pointless. I would call that a stereotypical progressive response. And why is it pointless? Because you know it's pretty much true.

Secondly, how does your for instance say that I'm calling someone stupid or retarded? I'm calling liberals or progressives as they prefer to refer to themselves as elists, condescending, and a lot of other things. You chose a very bad for instances.

I do believe that liberals/progressives are implicitly calling people stupid and retarded because their policies imply that people are too damn stupid to take care of themselves. Hell, they don't even think they can feed their kids. Generic cereal and milk or even eggs and toast cost less than $1 per day. If you can't afford that or you refuse to actually feed your children, there is a serious problem, but free food isn't the answer.

Dude is the exception, but he is not anywhere near as liberal/progressive as Obama, Pelosi, et. al. He has a far greater grasp of the issues than Obama. Read Obama's 2nd book and see if the man has a deep understanding of anything. He's a Harvard educated lawyer and taught constitutional law at University of Chicago and best I could tell from his book that the constitution means whatever 5 of the lawyers on the Supreme Court think it means. I'll bet that made for some deep philosophical debates in his law classes :rofl:

READ OBAMA'S BOOK. There is no substance. It's all high-minded fluff because he is an ignorant dolt. He's basically a holy-roler preacher with his traveling tent revivals travelling the country telling everybody what they want to hear. Why do you think he wants his acceptance speech to be in a football stadium? I've gone to a lot of big time college football games. Nothing like the excitement of 100,000 screaming idiots. Joe Pa for president.
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Postby devildog28 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:53 am

Anybody catch the speach of him wanting to us making sure we speak spanish
:rolleyes:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/09/o ... n-spanish/
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Postby huntingdude16 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:56 am

I think you make my point. We don't have to argue that because it's pointless. I would call that a stereotypical progressive response. And why is it pointless? Because you know it's pretty much true.

Not really.

Think about it, how would a liberal respond to that?

"Uh, no we're not..."


"Yes you are."


and so on. Whats the point?


Secondly, how does your for instance say that I'm calling someone stupid or retarded? I'm calling liberals or progressives as they prefer to refer to themselves as elists, condescending, and a lot of other things. You chose a very bad for instances.

Once again, you don't have to literally SAY they are retarded or stupid. Just the way you all-around post to them is just constant talking-down to. If your not saying it specifically, you sure are implying it, weather you mean to or not.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:35 am

Then I guess I will make it clear. Most progressive / liberal types are not stupid. Obama is a perfect example of a stereotypical progressive / liberal. He is arrogant, condescending, and most importantly and the reason he is so dangereous is because he is arrogantly ignorant.

His arrogant ignorance leads him to believe that he has the capacity to figure everything out for everybody and therefore he can devise a government scheme that will work for every American whether they live from the remotest regions of Alaska to our territories around the world to Appalachia to Manhatten, etc. This is IMPOSSIBLE. OK, maybe he only needs to talk to a couple other arrogantly ignorant liberals and then he will know all he needs to know :rolleyes:

Maybe you are not distinguishing between ignorant and stupid (retarded mental ability), but they are different and we all are ignorant of things we have not spent significant time researching or have significant practical job experience. People spend 20 or more years in a field and 18 year old college kids think they no more about it than the guys that have been working professionally in a field for longer than they have been on this Earth. We expect this type of arrogant ignorance from young kids, but not the man that wants to be President. Real life experience usually leads to the humility necessary to be successful. Obama has none and like many people can live in the bubble of youth, since he has sufficient wealth to eliminate all practical difficulties. You see this amongst celebrities, college professors, and a variety of affluent people.

Obama has no experience, but thinks he knows enough to make grand sweeping proposals that will not run the risk of serious unintended negative consequences, and he does not need to bother debating them because he cares and he can do no wrong. That is arrogant ignorance and it is hugely dangereous to our country because the policies of the arrogantly ignorant are far more destructive than even the most evil corporation that has ever existed.
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