McCain vs. Obama

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Who will get your vote?

Obama
11
14%
McCain
65
86%
 
Total votes : 76

McCain vs. Obama

Postby fenton_3 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:46 pm

Just want to test the water amoung my fellow hunters, and I am sick of all the CNN polls.

Thanks for voting!
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Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:28 pm

Here is a good place to look at the polls.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
Anybody that say polls are meaningless doesn't know what they are talking about. If you understand polls and polling, the people that do this for a living (meaning people pay actual money for their polling services) do a good job. Otherwise, they would be out of business if they didn't get the right answer most of the time.

There are certain biases that are well known that the pollsters account for.

For example, if you ask somebody if they are going to vote this election. Far more of them say they are going to than actually do. The trick is not to simply take their word for it, but to ask other questions to assess the actually likelihood that they will get off of their lazy ass and go and vote. The emotion associated with the Democratic primary (women vs. black) appears to have resulted in large errors in this prediction in some primaries. This lead to the pollsters badly blowing predictions in NH and a few other states.

This group is not a representative sample. We all own guns, hunt, are more rural, and almost certainly have higher incomes and education than the average voter. This is why as a group we are skewed strongly to the conservative side. It will be interesting to see what the results are, but if it doesn't bare this out I will be surprised.

I would also suggest you modify the poll to include Bob Barr, Ralph Nader, undecided, and not voting for any of them.
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Postby fenton_3 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:48 pm

That kinda was the point; I want to see what ratio of gun owners and hunters supported McCain vs Obama. Those other polls you mention will not matter until Sept. anyway. The vast majority of people have better things to worry about until then.
Last edited by fenton_3 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby fenton_3 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:52 pm

As far as modifying the poll; in the end voters really only have two options unless they want to waste their vote on a canidate who has no chance of winning a general election. So these "others" will just mess-up what I am trying to find out. This is a controlled poll and will have a definate outcome. If any of those "others" run they could and most likly will take votes away from McCain and cost him what will likly be a very close race.

Thanks for your input!
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Postby huntingdude16 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:21 pm

I think a 'neither' option would be appropriate.

I'll be a few months short old enough to vote, but even if I could, I probably wouldnt vote anyway.

Which is sad, because i'm a youth interested in politics.


The only guy in the whole process I liked was Ron, who the media never really gave a chance. Somewhat frustrating....

but I spose that's politics.



Also, fenton, don't underestimate Barr. Perot, at this time in the election process, was only polling 7%. Look at how much of an influence he had; he ended up with 19% of the vote.
Barr is running at about 6% right now.
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Postby gadwall getter » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:16 am

ide be going for mccain. :thumbsup:
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Postby don taylor » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:50 am

Ron Paul is from my hometown and we don't support him. He's a wack job. Elect him to be in your local or state goverment. Somewhere he can't effect me. I'm a equal opportunity hater.
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Postby fenton_3 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:34 am

To all who think they will just not vote because they do not like either canidate. Don't you think you should pick the lessor of two evils? Yes, McCain is a liberal republican, but he is better than the far left Obama; who has said there is no place for semi-auto firearms. That means our semi auto shotguns! We need to exercise our right to vote and pick the person who matches our views the best, and in some cases prevent a person from winning who matches our beliefs the lest.

To the young man who said he would not vote if he could; think about what I just said. One should no matter what and pick the lessor of two evils.

IMO
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Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:05 am

When you choose not to vote for one of the two candidates, your are in a practical sense casting a 1/2 vote for each of them. If you don't want to cast a half a vote for Obama, then you must cast an actual vote for McCain.

Sorry, but even if you say you are not voting or casting a protest vote, you are still voting for one of the major candidates. Don't pretend like you are not. Every no vote reduces the number of votes needed by the guy you don't want to win by a 1/2 vote. Ask the Ralph Nader supporters how well that worked out for them in Florida in 2000 :thumbsup:

There is no way at all that you can not have a preference one way or the other between these two guys. There are huge differences. Not as many as I would like, but there are huge differences.
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Postby devildog28 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:04 am

huntingdude16 wrote:I think a 'neither' option would be appropriate.

I'll be a few months short old enough to vote, but even if I could, I probably wouldnt vote anyway.

Which is sad, because i'm a youth interested in politics.


The only guy in the whole process I liked was Ron, who the media never really gave a chance. Somewhat frustrating....

but I spose that's politics.



Also, fenton, don't underestimate Barr. Perot, at this time in the election process, was only polling 7%. Look at how much of an influence he had; he ended up with 19% of the vote.
Barr is running at about 6% right now.


I've been to some countries where they're not allowed to vote and are repressed beyond belief....

Think about that before you think the answer is not voting.
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Postby devildog28 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:06 am

fenton_3 wrote:To all who think they will just not vote because they do not like either canidate. Don't you think you should pick the lessor of two evils? Yes, McCain is a liberal republican, but he is better than the far left Obama; who has said there is no place for semi-auto firearms. That means our semi auto shotguns! We need to exercise our right to vote and pick the person who matches our views the best, and in some cases prevent a person from winning who matches our beliefs the lest.

To the young man who said he would not vote if he could; think about what I just said. One should no matter what and pick the lessor of two evils.

IMO


Can you post a link or direct me to where I can find his gun stances? I believe what you're saying; I just want to see how messed up he is. But his platform has probably changed by now :rolleyes:
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Postby David » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:10 am

devildog28 wrote:Can you post a link or direct me to where I can find his gun stances? I believe what you're saying; I just want to see how messed up he is. But his platform has probably changed by now :rolleyes:


http://ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm#Gun_Control

A great unbiased site.
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Postby fenton_3 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:44 am

www.nra.com

Also on the Yahoo "election 08" there is a really good canidate comparison. Obama is a far far left Liberal and will have no problem telling you he will protect your rights to hunt, but with what? Take a look at Englands gun laws and that is what he wants for our country. "this is my opinion" In England you have to have a stamp to have a shotgun and it can not be a repeater so it must be a double barrel or single shot. That is why they are so popular there. The english can still hunt but not with the best technology and they have to register everything. If anyone from England reads this please let me know any more details on how your system works exactly. I am not English and have nerver hunted there, I have just read about how your gun rights were taken from you. Please go out and vote!!! Make sure you do not waste the opportunity to prevent our children from hunting and out ability to pass on our firearms to our children.

Spinnerman is 100% right by not voting you vote for both equally. All hunters and gun owners need to vote and think about it because Obama wants change but not for the better. IMO



Thanks
Last edited by fenton_3 on Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:46 am

fenton, I have considered each, and really I have too many major problems with the both of them. That is why I can't vote for either.

You say he is the lesser of two evils; to me, they are equally as 'evil'.

I don't want to give the actual reasons, thats a different topic. :wink:

spinner, I do have a slight democratic bias, but this is only due to the fact that I grew up with democratic-voting parents. As you can see, i've looked past that bias and as much as I would like to, I couldnt see myself going into the booth and voting for him.

Just the same for McCain.


dog28, thats the beauty of living in the U.S.A.; freedom.

Yeah, theres countries that are not as privledged as us. But you know what? Thats too bad. We live here, they live there. We have the freedom to be able to vote for who is in our government; we also have the freedom not to.

Gotta love the U.S.A. :yes:
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Postby devildog28 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:12 am

Does anyone think that congress would actually vote to allow the rediculous gun measures osama wants if he gets elected?
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Postby fenton_3 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:24 am

Right now we have Dems or liberals running both the Senate and the House. So I believe that it is a real possiblity. The liberals have been waiting for an opportunity to do this. They just lost a major 2nd amendment case and now they want to ban "certain" guns to protect us. Also the Dems want to try and make ammo so expensive we cannot afford to shoot. They will do this by requiring stamping on shell casings and so on. Since the Dems could control the executive office and both houses they would be able to pass alot of laws and restrictions on guns. Last time the happend it took 10 years to get the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban dropped.
Last edited by fenton_3 on Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:25 am

It depends on how the Congressional election turns out. You can almost guarantee that the assault weapon ban would come back. Would it outlaw my semi-auto shotgun with a magazine extension for snow goose hunting? It might.

He would also appoint judges that believe the 2nd Amendment is effectively meaningless and places no practical restriction on government.

He wouldn't get 100% of his stupid ideas passed into law, but he would sign all of the stupid ones that did get passed.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:56 pm

the dc ban was overturned by a 5-4 vote. that means it only takes 1 old guy to croak in the scotus for obama to appoint hillary in the seat (kidding, but not by much)... and thats just the damage from ONE seat. how many appointees will he get to place?

think about that...
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Did anyone notice this??

Postby plainsman » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:38 pm

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Feder ... px?id=3991
I can't understand why any hunter would even think about voting for this pudpuller
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Postby devildog28 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:29 pm

I wonder why he's more focused on taking guns away from everyone instead of focusing on the people that cause crime.

Could it be that the majority of those people are black?
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Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:34 pm

devildog28 wrote:Could it be that the majority of those people are black?
Nope. Just a typical liberal/progressive view of the world. His policies are the exact same as every white progressive politician.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:30 pm

he doesnt care about criminals committing crime. thats not how they think. to them, there is a reason why each criminal does bad things, and they just need to be coddled, while its the guns that are at fault...

and they are "right" because if there werent any guns, there would be no shootings... the problem is you have to live in fairy-land to believe its even possible...
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Postby CLUTCHfan » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:01 pm

fenton_3 wrote: Don't you think you should pick the lessor of two evils?


I'm 30yo, and I've voted for "the lesser of two evils" in every presidential election I've voted in since I could vote. I'm tired of it. After Fred Thompson dropped out of the race, I took a look at all my other options, and was fairly disgusted with what I saw. In New York, my vote is the same whether I vote for McCain, Barr, or Emperor Palpatine. The republican vote is less that 35% of the total, and the democrats take every presidential election (at least in recent history.) There are different districts that still elect conservative members of the house in, but this is a liberal state overall.
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Postby NV Guide » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:13 pm

3 reasons for McCain---

Supreme Court

Terrorism

Taxes


I probably dont agree with him on most other issues but, on these three he will get my vote as they outweigh the others. Obama will give us more Ruth Ginsberg, more terrorism and more taxes. Think about it!!!!!!!
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Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:27 am

CLUTCHfan wrote:I'm 30yo, and I've voted for "the lesser of two evils" in every presidential election I've voted in since I could vote.
And until you run for President, you will have to do that for the rest of your life. Even Fred would have looked bad in some areas by election day. I actually did not like him. I was a Rudy guy. That worked out well :oops:

CLUTCHfan wrote:In New York, my vote is the same whether I vote for McCain, Barr, or Emperor Palpatine. The republican vote is less that 35% of the total, and the democrats take every presidential election (at least in recent history.) There are different districts that still elect conservative members of the house in, but this is a liberal state overall.
I'm in the same boat in Illinois, however, that doesn't mean I'm going to sit out the election. It's not just voting that counts. Convincing people in states that matter to not shoot themselves in the foot is important. A check is also a good thing, if not McCain then support someone that needs it. Other candidates, NRA, Republican Party, political action committees, etc. Obama is going to have more money than any politician in history. John sure did a great job getting money out of politics. F'ing idiot. McCain is so unmotivating, he may drag down the whole fund raising on the right. Two years of unlimited progressive control would be a disaster. As was pointed out in another thread, we are all likely to get screwed this election.
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